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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

dweenk 06-15-19 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20979424)
I've had a number of quick links that aren't 1/8" gauge. Which are you using?

For 3/32" I use Sram PC830 chains - I like their quick links. For 1/8" chains I've been using Bell (I think) chains that I bought when K-Mart was closing - their quick links are more old school.

Alloyboy 06-15-19 11:00 AM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3124759ab9.jpg
Special thanks to Dan Burkhart for the 22 tooth cog.

Alloyboy 06-15-19 11:07 AM

Paulb in bklyn, The bent pin is removable and replaced with the spare one enclosed in the original box. Jim.

3speedslow 06-15-19 02:11 PM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...804a2c04c.jpeg

Just for comparison, 406 modern rim which is going on my Dahon folder nestled inside the 451 rim soon on my R20.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9319d1ba.jpeg

Good looking replacement with safety benefits but dang!, that chrome does shine.
I had to decide which 3 speed project was going to get my meager funds. The scorcher needed LED bulbs or my Twenty needed safe stop aluminium rims.

I chose the rims. CR18 20Ē 451 28 hole. Had to wait quite awhile as nobody had them. Now back in stock and delivered to the LBS today! Iím going to miss that shiny chrome but I do want a sure stop.

The new new rims are 22.3mm wide while the originals are 28.3 I also held them both together and worked out the spoke hole orientation. From valve hole to valve hole, the left /right does not match which means I will slide it back one spoke for the correct alignment. Plan is for tape together and walk the spokes over.

some pics...

BigChief 06-16-19 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 20980430)
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...804a2c04c.jpeg

Just for comparison, 406 modern rim which is going on my Dahon folder nestled inside the 451 rim soon on my R20.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c9319d1ba.jpeg

Good looking replacement with safety benefits but dang!, that chrome does shine.
I had to decide which 3 speed project was going to get my meager funds. The scorcher needed LED bulbs or my Twenty needed safe stop aluminium rims.

I chose the rims. CR18 20Ē 451 28 hole. Had to wait quite awhile as nobody had them. Now back in stock and delivered to the LBS today! Iím going to miss that shiny chrome but I do want a sure stop.

The new new rims are 22.3mm wide while the originals are 28.3 I also held them both together and worked out the spoke hole orientation. From valve hole to valve hole, the left /right does not match which means I will slide it back one spoke for the correct alignment. Plan is for tape together and walk the spokes over.

some pics...

I used alloy rims on my scorcher and they do give the bike a more sporty feel. I never got the old Endricks truly round but these trued up perfectly without much fuss. Something did happen to me, so I'll pass it on. When I first rolled out on the road with the new rims I was surprised that the brakes didn't work as well as the old chrome rims. So I used the old trick of dulling off the contact area with 400 grit sandpaper. It was like night and day. Now, the brakes had tons of grip. I wonder if they use some sort of wax to keep them new looking while they're in inventory. Don't know, but if this happens to you, not to worry, easy fix.

3speedslow 06-16-19 05:40 PM

Thanks BG! Will keep that in mind before I roll out on these.

i’ve decided it’s also a good time to switch the rear cog to 16 and regressed the BB. I have been using a Teflon spray in there which sets up like grease but don’t want to continue to relie on this method. Will use my friends Park cotter tool to save the pins for reuse. If not, I start saving for something else!

BigChief 06-16-19 09:22 PM

Start hitting the cotters with penetrating oil right away. I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, but I have never experienced the trouble with cotters that I've seen other people here have. I'm thinking this may be due to my system of oiling them a few days before I start a BB service. I take the nut and washer off and fill the well with PB Blaster. Only twice did I have cotters bend so badly that I had to drill and drive them out with a hammer and punch. Sometimes the threaded end will bend slightly. In that case I put the nut on, chuck it up in the bench vise and tap it straight again. It used to be a big tragedy if I wrecked a cotter getting it out. Filing those cheap cotters they sell these days to fit and align the crank arms at the same time is a pest. Now, with some Bike Smith cotters on hand, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

Rollfast 06-16-19 11:27 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20972554)

Okay, the wait and involuntary drooling on my desk was worth all that...Welcome, properly broken in Noob!

gster 06-17-19 04:21 AM

Still Out There

A Raleigh Folder here in Toronto for $100.00


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f3542ba4fb.jpg

eatontkd 06-17-19 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20980119)
Rudi the saddle guy riveted my good B72 cover to an intact used frame. (The frame breaks if you use Joe Breeze's seat sandwich. Ask me how I know.) He used these really fine wide brass rivets. It looks so good. I almost want to ask him to do my other saddles that way, too.https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fc954d9d5e.jpg

Wow, I like it! Tell me more of the Rudi...

paulb_in_bkln 06-17-19 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by eatontkd (Post 20982464)
Wow, I like it! Tell me more of the Rudi...

He's a local and not only was he able to rivet the cover to a new frame (I drilled the cover off the broken frame), he has in the past made new leather covers. But he says that's a lot of work and his costs mean there's no advantage over buying a new saddle. I was able to drop my saddle off and pick it up at his place of business. I don't know how much of this he really wants to do or if he's into shipping. But you can ask. He's RHM on this forum.

usarnie1 06-17-19 09:31 AM

Another Hercules added to my stable!
 
Hello fellow 3 speeders. Last week I found and purchased a 1953 Hercules Royal Prince, that was only 12 miles away from my home. This is my number 3 of 1953 Hercules that I own. Basically, the bike had good bones, so I went all out on its' rejuvenation. Shown below are the before and after photos of the bike.

Many of the front fork bearings were missing, the front tire and tube had a blow out, the front axel bearing races were pitted, the saddle was made in Taiwon, the hand grips were USA made, The chain had 2 links that were frozen, the rear clamp for the chain guard was missing, one of the pedals dust caps was missing, the kick stand was missing and the complete front brake was missing. Since these early 1950s Hercules are so rare, I had to have it!

I put on new Schwalbe tires/tubes, used original Hercules tan saddle, new matching tan hand grips, used Brooks tan leather tool bag, complete early Hercules front brakes, nice used front axel and bearing races, period correct Midland repainted carrying rack, Miller generator light kit with a stem mounted bracket, NOS Hercules pedals, Raleigh logo kick stand, new indicator chain and its' anchor and all new cables. Coming soon will be reproduction Hercules chainguard sticker, tan pannier bags and matching triangle bag to mount in-between the V portion of the frame.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e36ae44408.jpg

After1
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4cfff57960.jpg

After2

3speedslow 06-17-19 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20982200)
Start hitting the cotters with penetrating oil right away. I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, but I have never experienced the trouble with cotters that I've seen other people here have. I'm thinking this may be due to my system of oiling them a few days before I start a BB service. I take the nut and washer off and fill the well with PB Blaster. Only twice did I have cotters bend so badly that I had to drill and drive them out with a hammer and punch. Sometimes the threaded end will bend slightly. In that case I put the nut on, chuck it up in the bench vise and tap it straight again. It used to be a big tragedy if I wrecked a cotter getting it out. Filing those cheap cotters they sell these days to fit and align the crank arms at the same time is a pest. Now, with some Bike Smith cotters on hand, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

+1 All so true! Was planning on hoisting the bike from the shed rafter and pulling the wheels, oiling the cotters today but pulled a back muscle so... itís wait and see. At least I will begin lubing the cotters.

3speedslow 06-17-19 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20982383)
Still Out There

A Raleigh Folder here in Toronto for $100.00


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f3542ba4fb.jpg

Nice! I like that rack too. Looks higher and more back then the other ones. Those pedals are like what I have. Chrome around the foot blocks. I wonder if the rims are 451.

BigChief 06-17-19 12:07 PM


Originally Posted by usarnie1 (Post 20982766)
Hello fellow 3 speeders. Last week I found and purchased a 1953 Hercules Royal Prince, that was only 12 miles away from my home. This is my number 3 of 1953 Hercules that I own. Basically, the bike had good bones, so I went all out on its' rejuvenation. Shown below are the before and after photos of the bike.

Many of the front fork bearings were missing, the front tire and tube had a blow out, the front axel bearing races were pitted, the saddle was made in Taiwon, the hand grips were USA made, The chain had 2 links that were frozen, the rear clamp for the chain guard was missing, one of the pedals dust caps was missing, the kick stand was missing and the complete front brake was missing. Since these early 1950s Hercules are so rare, I had to have it!

I put on new Schwalbe tires/tubes, used original Hercules tan saddle, new matching tan hand grips, used Brooks tan leather tool bag, complete early Hercules front brakes, nice used front axel and bearing races, period correct Midland repainted carrying rack, Miller generator light kit with a stem mounted bracket, NOS Hercules pedals, Raleigh logo kick stand, new indicator chain and its' anchor and all new cables. Coming soon will be reproduction Hercules chainguard sticker, tan pannier bags and matching triangle bag to mount in-between the V portion of the frame.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e36ae44408.jpg

After1
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4cfff57960.jpg

After2

Beautiful bike. Nice work. The brown torpedo grips go well with the saddle and red color. Those really are NOS Hercules pedals. Quite a rare find. Original Herc-O-Matic shifter too.

jackbombay 06-17-19 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Rollfast (Post 20982290)
Okay, the wait and involuntary drooling on my desk was worth all that...Welcome, properly broken in Noob!

Thanks!

I'm a little surprised at how rarely this Hercules gets any attention, but, because its not crabon fibre, or titnium, or even hydro formed aluminum, it generally isn't worth a second glance....

I am away from home working in NYC, and I have a sturmey archer folding bike with me, I just put down an hour and a half on the pedals hard, I'd certainly prefer to have my Hercules here, but having a 16" wheeled folder is certainly enough to for me to go turn the cranks hard after work and go to bed happy :-)


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20982383)
Still Out There

A Raleigh Folder here in Toronto for $100.00


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f3542ba4fb.jpg

OMG, $100?!?!?!? $100 Canadian?!?!? East Idaho craigslist sucks, stuff like this never comes up :-(


Originally Posted by usarnie1 (Post 20982766)
Hello fellow 3 speeders. Last week I found and purchased a 1953 Hercules Royal Prince, that was only 12 miles away from my home. This is my number 3 of 1953 Hercules that I own.

Beautiful bike!

arty dave 06-18-19 07:14 AM


Originally Posted by usarnie1 (Post 20982766)
Hello fellow 3 speeders. Last week I found and purchased a 1953 Hercules Royal Prince, that was only 12 miles away from my home. This is my number 3 of 1953 Hercules that I own. Basically, the bike had good bones, so I went all out on its' rejuvenation. Shown below are the before and after photos of the bike.

Many of the front fork bearings were missing, the front tire and tube had a blow out, the front axel bearing races were pitted, the saddle was made in Taiwon, the hand grips were USA made, The chain had 2 links that were frozen, the rear clamp for the chain guard was missing, one of the pedals dust caps was missing, the kick stand was missing and the complete front brake was missing. Since these early 1950s Hercules are so rare, I had to have it!

I put on new Schwalbe tires/tubes, used original Hercules tan saddle, new matching tan hand grips, used Brooks tan leather tool bag, complete early Hercules front brakes, nice used front axel and bearing races, period correct Midland repainted carrying rack, Miller generator light kit with a stem mounted bracket, NOS Hercules pedals, Raleigh logo kick stand, new indicator chain and its' anchor and all new cables. Coming soon will be reproduction Hercules chainguard sticker, tan pannier bags and matching triangle bag to mount in-between the V portion of the frame.

Very nice! These are one of my favourite grips for roadster and light roadster bikes. They always look the part. I've just visited the US and bought 2 sets of the velo orange rustines grips, that I've been wanting to try for a long time. I think these will also look just as good on 'our' kind of vintage bike.
You really nailed the colour of the Midland rack.

3speedslow 06-18-19 04:28 PM

My Raleigh Twenty and I are not having a good day.

Pompiere 06-18-19 04:55 PM

I brought this old Hercules back from my dad's yesterday. He got it for $2 at a garage sale several years ago. I am planning to go over it, replace cables and grease bearings, etc. The paint is pretty rough, I'm not sure if it's original or not. The seat and grips were replaced at some point with Dorcy reproduction parts.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2477ced93d.jpg
1950-something Hercules

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52d1306cf2.jpg
Birmingham head badge

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61a9f3f3e5.jpg
Her-cu-matic shifter

3speedslow 06-18-19 05:46 PM

Awesome! It looks eager for a clean up. If it has an original shifter, it’s way ahead of the game!

paulb_in_bkln 06-18-19 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by Pompiere (Post 20985115)
I brought this old Hercules back from my dad's yesterday. He got it for $2 at a garage sale several years ago. I am planning to go over it, replace cables and grease bearings, etc. The paint is pretty rough, I'm not sure if it's original or not. The seat and grips were replaced at some point with Dorcy reproduction parts.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2477ced93d.jpg
1950-something Hercules

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52d1306cf2.jpg
Birmingham head badge

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...61a9f3f3e5.jpg
Her-cu-matic shifter

Her-cu-matic! I knew someone who's son in law worked for Ronco and he was known in the family as Steve-o-matic.

3speedslow 06-18-19 05:59 PM

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b94b6b327.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7a817462.jpeg
Iím back, had to go for a ride and cool off.

time to upgrade the rims on my Twenty and regrease the BB turned into a bad time. Using a park tool press the NDS pin came right out. The DS did not budge, just bent over and snapped off. Trying to punch it out with no effect. Looks like it is hung up on the slot ledge. Might have to drill. This after soaking in oil too.

moved on, taped new rims to wheels. Started with the front. All went fine but in the end, the CR18 is not even close to the SA rims. Spokes all too loose for a truing. So it looks like spoke calculating time, new spoke/washer time and more cost..,

iím almost afraid to try and change the 15T cog for a 16T right now. Snap ring might break or fly off who knows where!

ryansu 06-18-19 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20982200)
Start hitting the cotters with penetrating oil right away. I hope I'm not jinxing myself here, but I have never experienced the trouble with cotters that I've seen other people here have. I'm thinking this may be due to my system of oiling them a few days before I start a BB service. I take the nut and washer off and fill the well with PB Blaster. Only twice did I have cotters bend so badly that I had to drill and drive them out with a hammer and punch. Sometimes the threaded end will bend slightly. In that case I put the nut on, chuck it up in the bench vise and tap it straight again. It used to be a big tragedy if I wrecked a cotter getting it out. Filing those cheap cotters they sell these days to fit and align the crank arms at the same time is a pest. Now, with some Bike Smith cotters on hand, I don't have to worry about that anymore.

After struggling with some 10 speed cotters on Raleigh's, Peugeot's etc I bought a Bike Smith Cotter press, it wasn't cheap but it has yet (knock wood) to fail me. Your method of penetrating oil before service sounds like a best practice @BigChief

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6fcaa90c28.jpg

sykerocker 06-18-19 07:54 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20983880)
OMG, $100?!?!?!? $100 Canadian?!?!? East Idaho craigslist sucks, stuff like this never comes up :-(

Yeah, the last time I saw a Raleigh Twenty in that nice a condition for $100.00, I was working at A.R. Adams and was selling it new. Say, early 1970's.

I think I paid $150.00 for mine, and it wasn't in quite that nice a shape.

jackbombay 06-18-19 09:05 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 20985203)
The DS did not budge, just bent over and snapped off. Trying to punch it out with no effect.

Bigger hammer? Support the bottom side of the pin with a piece of pipe cut to bear against the ground so when you hit the pin with the hammer all the energy goes into the pin and not into compressing tires and the like?

BigChief 06-19-19 02:51 AM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 20985460)
Bigger hammer? Support the bottom side of the pin with a piece of pipe cut to bear against the ground so when you hit the pin with the hammer all the energy goes into the pin and not into compressing tires and the like?

Exactly! Although, I do have a punch set and I know most don't. I think they are essential tools. I have never had a cotter break off like that. Usually they just bend. Well, this saves you the trouble of drilling away the bent part. What I do is center punch the cotter, start with a small drill and work up until the drill is almost as big as the diameter of the cotter hole in the crank. This leaves a centered counter sink in the top of the cotter. Then I drill a clearance hole in a 2x4 and cut it to length so it supports the crank arm against the cement floor. Then using the fattest punch that fits into the counter sink, I drive out the cotter. From the looks of it, you may be able to get away with just supporting the crank arm and driving it through. I like the counter sink because it helps direct all the energy straight through the cotter.
edit: If you don't already have them, I highly recommend new cotters from Mark at BikeSmith. They are the best quality and he custom tapers them to fit Raleigh cranks. On the good side, if you use good cotters and properly install them with the press, you'll never have this problem again.

paulb_in_bkln 06-19-19 05:25 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 20985203)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b94b6b327.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7a817462.jpeg
Iím back, had to go for a ride and cool off.

time to upgrade the rims on my Twenty and regrease the BB turned into a bad time. Using a park tool press the NDS pin came right out. The DS did not budge, just bent over and snapped off. Trying to punch it out with no effect. Looks like it is hung up on the slot ledge. Might have to drill. This after soaking in oil too.

moved on, taped new rims to wheels. Started with the front. All went fine but in the end, the CR18 is not even close to the SA rims. Spokes all too loose for a truing. So it looks like spoke calculating time, new spoke/washer time and more cost..,

iím almost afraid to try and change the 15T cog for a 16T right now. Snap ring might break or fly off who knows where!

I've given up working on these without a cotter press. Too much time, too much frustration, too much un-success. Not that I've bought the Bikesmith one. But my LBS has the older Park tool and the proprietor will let me use it if I bring the bike over, which isn't that convenient either. Eventually, I will have to buy the Bikesmith tool, I know that.

Ged117 06-19-19 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20985632)
Exactly! Although, I do have a punch set and I know most don't. I think they are essential tools. I have never had a cotter break off like that. Usually they just bend. Well, this saves you the trouble of drilling away the bent part. What I do is center punch the cotter, start with a small drill and work up until the drill is almost as big as the diameter of the cotter hole in the crank. This leaves a centered counter sink in the top of the cotter. Then I drill a clearance hole in a 2x4 and cut it to length so it supports the crank arm against the cement floor. Then using the fattest punch that fits into the counter sink, I drive out the cotter. From the looks of it, you may be able to get away with just supporting the crank arm and driving it through. I like the counter sink because it helps direct all the energy straight through the cotter.
edit: If you don't already have them, I highly recommend new cotters from Mark at BikeSmith. They are the best quality and he custom tapers them to fit Raleigh cranks. On the good side, if you use good cotters and properly install them with the press, you'll never have this problem again.


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20985701)
I've given up working on these without a cotter press. Too much time, too much frustration, too much un-success. Not that I've bought the Bikesmith one. But my LBS has the older Park tool and the proprietor will let me use it if I bring the bike over, which isn't that convenient either. Eventually, I will have to buy the Bikesmith tool, I know that.


The Bikesmith cotter press is essential for a headache free disassembly of old three speeds or any other bike with a cottered crank, like my Peugeot. I was done in two minutes after soaking the cotter pins with PB Blaster and using the press. I could have reused the originals, but I decided to put in the cotters that Mark provided. I'll keep the originals for another day. The quality of the 1950 cotters is impressive considering how long they were in the crank.

BigChief 06-19-19 08:47 AM

Those circlips that hold the cog on the driver are easy to remove. It's getting them back on that's hard for me. I don't even have a good technique to pass along. It's one of those things I just fight with until I win.

mirfi 06-19-19 09:00 AM

Free Raleigh Three Speed, DC area

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/...910311657.html

FREE Curb Alert
Bike is FREE! if not gone by Thursday AM, the rubbish men will take it off.
1960s black Raleigh bike with mechanical lever/rod brakes
I put the bike on the curb.
Three speed rear hub.
Parked in shed for the last 40 years.
Hole drilled in frame near the "R" in Raleigh, see pic.
No seat, no fenders, no chain guard
FREE at the curb waiting pickup.


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