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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 07:18 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20255818)
Raleigh made plenty of true sports and touring bikes, but the light roadsters and heavy roadsters were always meant to be utility bikes.

Few years ago in Prospect Park I fell into an easygoing lap or two with a guy who was riding an immaculate 70s high-end Raleigh, maybe a Professional? I knew then but have forgotten now. Anyway I commented on his perfect bike and he said "I just took it out of the closet after 30 years. It's in better shape than I am." I suppose most of us can identify.

What I was trying to get at in my post is that now I look at the UO8 (and its many cousins) vs the Sport and what seemed like a fancy upgrade when I was an ignorant, although extremely mendacious, teenager, now looks like a very similar "utility" bike that would have been matched by just a few mods to the Sport. I forgot that the UO8 did have alloy hubs, and the alloy Mafac centerpulls saved some weight over the Sport's steel sidepulls and seemed classier. (I don't remember now if they worked any better.) But the frame tubing, lugs, geometry, and many components? Interchangeable, it seems to me.

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256816)
This is a preservation project. The only restoration element is the front fender. Every piece except the spokes is coming apart for cleaning. New ball bearings all around and a polish and wax for the paint. I might swap out the threaded driver with a splined one so I could have cog options.

I fantasize sometimes about a Concours take on a scorchered Sport or simular. I fell for one of the exterior paints, Recon Green, in the recent Jeep lineup--it's so distracting, the things you see in the street. BTW, thanks for the gift of that word, "scorcher." It's perfect.

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256816)
This is a preservation project. The only restoration element is the front fender. Every piece except the spokes is coming apart for cleaning. New ball bearings all around and a polish and wax for the paint. I might swap out the threaded driver with a splined one so I could have cog options.

The cap on the fork crown is so impressive. This one must have forged rather than stamped fork ends. That is a very nice detail.

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by boattail71 (Post 20251362)
These classics are cherished by (some) co-eds in my college town so I aspire to resurrect derelict 3-speeds, especially the "women's" bikes, and get them back on the road for less than the cost of a new bike. We all win.

The paradox is that these bikes fetch $150 minimum on Craigslist here so the owners who leave them locked up, derelict, and rusting are giving up some easy money in addition to depriving the world of a fine vintage item that improves the general tone.

BigChief 04-01-18 08:47 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20257139)
I fantasize sometimes about a Concours take on a scorchered Sport or simular. I fell for one of the exterior paints, Recon Green, in the recent Jeep lineup--it's so distracting, the things you see in the street. BTW, thanks for the gift of that word, "scorcher." It's perfect.

It is perfect. It has cycling history behind it too. In the early days of bicycling, it was a nickname given to bad boys who blasted around town on their bikes and caused a ruckus.

https://www.ibiscycles.com/images/up...25-1-72dpi.jpg

markk900 04-01-18 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20257122)
Few years ago in Prospect Park I fell into an easygoing lap or two with a guy who was riding an immaculate 70s high-end Raleigh, maybe a Professional? I knew then but have forgotten now. Anyway I commented on his perfect bike and he said "I just took it out of the closet after 30 years. It's in better shape than I am." I suppose most of us can identify.

What I was trying to get at in my post is that now I look at the UO8 (and its many cousins) vs the Sport and what seemed like a fancy upgrade when I was an ignorant, although extremely mendacious, teenager, now looks like a very similar "utility" bike that would have been matched by just a few mods to the Sport. I forgot that the UO8 did have alloy hubs, and the alloy Mafac centerpulls saved some weight over the Sport's steel sidepulls and seemed classier. (I don't remember now if they worked any better.) But the frame tubing, lugs, geometry, and many components? Interchangeable, it seems to me.

Again to reinforce your point: I made my AO-8 into a utility 3-speed by lacing an AW hub onto 700c rims and put on upright bars and a sprung saddle. Very nice ride to be honest but I put it back to drop bar as I have a variety of 3 speeds to ride (though horror of horrors my Trek 600 now sports the AW and a set of porteur bars - no drewing though).

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 20257278)
Again to reinforce your point: I made my AO-8 into a utility 3-speed by lacing an AW hub onto 700c rims and put on upright bars and a sprung saddle. Very nice ride to be honest but I put it back to drop bar as I have a variety of 3 speeds to ride (though horror of horrors my Trek 600 now sports the AW and a set of porteur bars - no drewing though).

I am so glad you mentioned this. My holdover project, stalled from last spring, is an AW conversion for a mid-70s (seems so from the decals) white Peugeot mixte. I got as far as lacing new, brushed CR18s to the stock front hub and a salvaged AW. They need to be tightened and trued. The AW is missing all its exterior bits--dust cap, cog spacers, cog, C-clip, etc., so I have to gather all those. I have a trigger shifter but will need the wire+housing and frame stops. Then I'm making it cotterless so I need a new spindle for the bottom bracket. But using some clamps I little by little squeezed the rear triangle to the right spacing for the AW. Nothing at all to it!

browngw 04-01-18 10:49 AM

2 Attachment(s)
I often think that if my prized original 1958 Sun Cresta had a three speed hub, I would use it a lot more because it seems the 3 speed has a wide enough range to fit my riding style. The Sun is a five speed derailleur with a 48T CR and a 14-22 freewheel. The 71 Robin Hood "Sports Model" (as proclaimed by the decal on the frame) gets more use and enjoyment because as old as the technology is, it still works amazingly well with its 21T cog (changed from original 18T). I will probably never convert the Sun to a "scorcher" but.........

johnnyspaghetti 04-01-18 12:58 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20255914)
The hub would be an SA licensed clone made by Fichtel & Sachs

So... would parts Interchange?

markk900 04-01-18 02:03 PM

@browngw: having seen the Sun Cresta in person I can attest to it being even more stunning in real life than the photo suggests. Lucky for you that you have a variety of IGH bikes to ride when the mood hits - that one though deserves a nice retirement at 60+ years old!

johnnyspaghetti 04-01-18 02:31 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256247)

damn

johnnyspaghetti 04-01-18 03:10 PM

You know this is killing me. The market here is different. there are already flippers here. There are barn find dudes. I want fixable old bikes, thats about it.I got nothing better to do and am good at it.It's nice they are not that close in tolorence. They have to ride straight.

clubman 04-01-18 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20257738)
So... would parts Interchange?

It's a fair question but I wouldn't assume so. As I see it, you're buying the rights to copy a design, not manufacture identical parts.

I've met a man who was enormously wealthy because his family invented and patented the worldwide rights to the automobile differential transmission back in the early 20th century. Those tranny's were all model specific, not identical and I suspect it may be the same with these.

johnnyspaghetti 04-01-18 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20257971)
It's a fair question but I wouldn't assume so. As I see it, you're buying the rights to copy a design, not manufacture identical parts.

I've met a man who was enormously wealthy because his family invented and patented the worldwide rights to the automobile differential transmission back in the early 20th century. Those tranny's were all model specific, not identical and I suspect it may be the same with these.

That is a fun fact.

Mooo 04-01-18 05:52 PM

I paid $1 for a Sears/Puch with a Steyr license built Sturmey with a stripped sun gear. I was surprised that the sprocket would not fit a Sturmey hub, but I believe on that one at least the pawls, springs, planetary gears should interchange.
Was kind of a surprise about the sprocket, though.
Just picked up another Steyr/Sears hub, but this one is marked "Sears." I have no plans to pull it apart. Just got it because 1) it was interesting and 2) it was essentially free.

restlessswind 04-01-18 06:21 PM

Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks

desconhecido 04-01-18 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20258182)
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike.[...]

I've seen this on more than one lower tier Raleigh (Sports, Record, Sprite) of the era. First one was on a Sprite -- had paint intact on the surface which should have been finished in prep for the crown race. Seen a bunch worse including poorly brazed lugs. Somewhere in this very thread, I believe, is a picture of a bike with failed lug brazing -- I think it was a Raleigh. I have no idea how to find it -- if the pictures till exists in BF. Just remember it was gross and disgusting.

We all hart our Raleighs, but some were pretty buck toothed and ugly. Refurbed a Peugeot PRN10 a couple years back (531 three tube) and their workmanship was about as bad as Raleigh.

paulb_in_bkln 04-01-18 07:07 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20257494)
I will probably never convert the Sun to a "scorcher" but.........

It seems to me if the Cresta is original you'd not want to mess with it.

BigChief 04-01-18 09:06 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20258182)
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks

True, there was a general quality decline in the 70s, but fortunately for us, Raleigh was too pressed for cash to retool for thoroughly modern designs, so we are blessed with essentially 1930s bikes being made all the way to the bitter end in 1980. So, there's a good side. That crown race doesn't need to be tight on the steerer tube. You can just put it back together. There's not enough friction to make it spin on the tube. In the 70s, they did do away with the crimp on rear fender hanger and changed to a welded on through tab like the front fender. Bad idea. You can't adjust it. Sometimes, to get the fender clip at the front properly engaged on it's frame tube, you have to mount that hanger at the back of it's tube instead of the front. But then you have that curved washer on the brake that's supposed to fit against the frame tube against the flat fender tab. Solution...Get rid of that curved washer and replace it with a flat one or a stack of flat plain washers. It works better that way anyhow. With a flat washer, you can tip the calipers to balance the distance of the brake pads against the rim and make them even. That washer does have a groove that holds the brake spring, but so does the washer in front of the spring. You don't need 2 grooves. One is plenty.
edit:
Forgot to mention. I think by 1974 Sports came with self adjusting brake levers. If you have them and they bug you, you can get them to operate normally by removing the little spring inside. I don't like them because I prefer a bit of lever travel before the pads contact the rim. My hands are in a more comfortable position if braking action starts about midway of the lever travel.

johnnyspaghetti 04-02-18 10:35 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20233174)
It occurred to me the other day that I had never had the bottom bracket apart on my Robin Hood or had any idea of its condition. The bike still looks almost new after 47 years. The chap who I purchased it from had mentioned he "greased all the bearings" and to his credit he had, BUT he did not mention the hammering and drilling to get the cotter out! When I went to check it the cotters came out fairly easy but the drive side was not the right taper, was showing wear and there were what looked like drill marks on the BB axle. The bearing was not smooth feeling but it was just a little crud had fallen in the grease and adjustment. I carefully blued and filed a new cotter, replaced the grease and adjusted the bearing. All is well.
I think from now on I will check everything at the start, not three years later!

Drill, is last resort for not making it pop. it will always pop out. only when someone else ffed with it before.I use a c-clamp and its not perfect. They pop

johnnyspaghetti 04-02-18 01:14 PM

Winter is back. This is old.

restlessswind 04-02-18 02:54 PM

What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.

arty dave 04-02-18 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20258182)
Hey all, I finally found me a 23" Sports! A 1974 in typical green. That's the good news. The bad news is that I can see the decline in QC from my 66 Hercules and even my wife's 70 ish LTD SC.
The crown race is loose in it's seat. There is no wear. I fitted another race. Same looseness...both with some wiggle space. This was an original, unmolested bike. The fender mount was between the rear brake caliper concave spacer and it's spring seat (instead of in front of mounting tube). Some other details that I now forgot about too. Anyway, best way to reuse the fork? Best way to shim or punch? Thanks

Same as BC said - I had this issue with the crown race on my '63 DL-1. I'd never come across this before. There was rust under a lot of the paint on the bike so I did a strip and re-paint - the small amount of paint that made it into the fork crown was enough to make the crown race a tight fit. I've had no issues with it, no looseness or anything. There was none before I did the repaint either.

arty dave 04-02-18 05:08 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20260004)
What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.

I find these repro Raleigh grips to be quite comfortable. Made in Japan by OGK -
https://nl.aliexpress.com/store/prod...375598027.html

You can get them on Ebay as well, they come without the 'R', but maybe they're a rip-off? Don't know

gster 04-02-18 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by restlessswind (Post 20260004)
What are some suggestions on 110 (4.25") grips? I find the typical 120mm -130mm grips too long on OEM bars. I have found some Raleigh type reproductions by Kenda https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ral...19.m1438.l2649
But I was hoping to find something a little more comfy.

Nice grips but the shipping is expensive.

gster 04-02-18 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20260237)
I find these repro Raleigh grips to be quite comfortable. Made in Japan by OGK -
https://nl.aliexpress.com/store/prod...375598027.html

You can get them on Ebay as well, they come without the 'R', but maybe they're a rip-off? Don't know

Price is good, free shipping. I ordered some guitar parts recently from Aliexpress and was quite impressed.

gster 04-02-18 05:45 PM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20259318)
Drill, is last resort for not making it pop. it will always pop out. only when someone else ffed with it before.I use a c-clamp and its not perfect. They pop

As a rule I ALWAYS disassemble all the bearings and repack.
I do, however have a couple of very original "show bikes" that I haven't messed with.
A '72 Superbe and a 67 Sprite 5 speed...


Attachment 605712

Attachment 605713

Attachment 605714

paulb_in_bkln 04-02-18 06:06 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20256247)
Here's my next project. A 1951 23" Rudge Sports. All there except the grips. Front fender has some serious issues. It will test my restoration skills.

Not sure of the etiquette here but I sure am curious what you paid for the bike. Or did you trade?

BigChief 04-03-18 04:37 AM

I'll say this much. Where I live, the most you'll ever get for an old "English racer" is $150. And that's if it's shiny and rather new looking. There is no price premium for older models. So far, I haven't been able to get over $100 for any of my finished project bikes. I like to say that I loose money on every bike I fix, but I make it up in volume.

BigChief 04-03-18 05:48 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20260290)
As a rule I ALWAYS disassemble all the bearings and repack.
I do, however have a couple of very original "show bikes" that I haven't messed with.
A '72 Superbe and a 67 Sprite 5 speed...


Attachment 605712

Attachment 605713

Attachment 605714

These are gorgeous bikes! I love the burgundy Sprite. The catalogs don't list the tall frame in this color. Goes to show you can't always depend on them.


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