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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

arty dave 05-26-17 11:27 PM

Yeah it's just a bit of a money headache and it has left me undecided. I don't want to put it in the cnr of the shed, I really want to ride it :) I was very surprised to come across one in Australia.

To be clear:
700A = 642mm or 28" x 1 3/8"
700B = 635mm or 28" x 1 1/2"
700C = 622mm 'modern standard'

The 642mm tyres are still made and available new in Australia, and at 37mm wide are comparable to 635mm tyre widths, the widest available being 40mm in 635. The bike currently fits the 642mm wheel (non-westwood) with ease under the original front mudguard. I can't buy 635mm tyres easily in Australia, if at all.

So if I want to use an original front drum hub I have to go with a 32 hole. I have a modern SA front alloy drum hub in 36 hole, but thought an original steel drum would look more, well, original :) on the DL-1. Betterer'n'such with it's whole character and function.

OK so 3 options:
Use the modern front drum hub I have & I'd just order a 36 hole 635mm rim & 2 tyres from dutchbikebits.com or classic-cycle.de >Reasonable parts costs but pricey shipping

Buy the '65 front drum and buy a 32 hole 635mm westwood rim from UK Ebay & tyres from somewhere >Pricey rim & pricey shipping

Use the tyres I have, buy the '65 front drum and 2 x 642mm westwood rims from the guy in my own country >Reasonable parts costs & cheap shipping

This may take some financial ponderings and musings, maybe some thoughtful perambulations through grey matter. Maybe I should sell one of my bikes :eek:

clubman 05-27-17 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19613571)
Yeah it's just a bit of a money headache and it has left me undecided. I don't want to put it in the cnr of the shed, I really want to ride it :) I was very surprised to come across one in Australia.

To be clear:
700A = 642mm or 28" x 1 3/8"
700B = 635mm or 28" x 1 1/2"
700C = 622mm 'modern standard'

The 642mm tyres are still made and available new in Australia, and at 37mm wide are comparable to 635mm tyre widths, the widest available being 40mm in 635. The bike currently fits the 642mm wheel (non-westwood) with ease under the original front mudguard. I can't buy 635mm tyres easily in Australia, if at all.

So if I want to use an original front drum hub I have to go with a 32 hole. I have a modern SA front alloy drum hub in 36 hole, but thought an original steel drum would look more, well, original :) on the DL-1. Betterer'n'such with it's whole character and function.

OK so 3 options:
Use the modern front drum hub I have & I'd just order a 36 hole 635mm rim & 2 tyres from dutchbikebits.com or classic-cycle.de >Reasonable parts costs but pricey shipping

Buy the '65 front drum and buy a 32 hole 635mm westwood rim from UK Ebay & tyres from somewhere >Pricey rim & pricey shipping

Use the tyres I have, buy the '65 front drum and 2 x 642mm westwood rims from the guy in my own country >Reasonable parts costs & cheap shipping

This may take some financial ponderings and musings, maybe some thoughtful perambulations through grey matter. Maybe I should sell one of my bikes :eek:

We commonwealthers were obsessed with defining ourselves as 'not British' as we developed our bicycle industries. I had jumped conclusions, thinking they were the EA4 647 mm sporting size (Canadian) that seemed to disappear in the 40's never to return.

I'd like love see pics and read more info on the recipient frame for context. Frame spacing, front fork spacing, what SA hubs are being sourced (vintage or modern).

arty dave 05-27-17 11:22 PM

647!!! Far out, I thought 642 was the biggest wheel size in the universe! (..apart from cokers, penny farthings, etc.)

Was Canada the only maker of the EA4 647 size?

I'm leaning towards original front drum and 635mm rim for the DL-1. I'm not a big fan of cream tyres, but in this case I think they really suit the bike, so I'd need the 635 rim. I bought a bike last year that came with cream tyres and had to take them off as they just didn't look right to me.

I'll post some pics as soon as I'm allowed.

Big Chief what kind of music did you play in your bands?

BigChief 05-28-17 04:57 AM

In the States, we had the confusion of Schwinn using an oddball tire size and calling it 26x 1 3/8, but they didn't fit English bikes that also used 26 x 1 3/8 tires. This led to a common understanding of the otherwise unused metric name of 590mm for tires to fit 3 speed English bikes. Other than that, all these different names for tire sizes makes my head spin.
In the early 80s there was a revival of old time horn bands in New England. They played jump and vintage R&B. Went out of fashion by the 90s. Played a lot of different styles over the years, but that was my favorite. Ifit ever comes back, I'll be ready.

Velocivixen 05-28-17 11:20 AM

Built up my 20" drum brake hub for R20 #3. Ordered the 2-speed kickback with coaster brake for rear. Mostly just because I've never used them before. Fewer cables.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4203/3...2e7d9889_z.jpg20" Rhyno Lite laced to Sturmey Archer 70mm drum brake. by velocivixen, on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/3...e258b68d_z.jpg20" Rhyno Lite laced to Sturmey Archer 70mm drum brake. by velocivixen, on Flickr
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4204/3...2c8bdef1_z.jpg20" Rhyno Lite laced to Sturmey Archer 70mm drum brake. by velocivixen, on Flickr

gster 05-28-17 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19615936)

2 speed kick back is an interesting hub. I've heard they had some trouble with the new SA ones, but the old Bendix and Torpedo Duomotic hubs are quite interesting to ride.
You may quite like it.

Velocivixen 05-28-17 07:59 PM

I read that their initial production of the hub had some issues, but that was years ago. So let's keep our fingers crossed.....
I'm heading over to [MENTION=381793]gugie[/MENTION]'s with the fork & rear Hank of the bike to spread the fork/dropout, etc. it's pretty much disassembled at this point.

bwilli88 05-28-17 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 19615936)
Built up my 20" drum brake hub for R20 #3. Ordered the 2-speed kickback with coaster brake for rear. Mostly just because I've never used them before. Fewer cables.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4203/3...2e7d9889_z.jpg[url=https://flic.kr/p/V7a966]20" Rhyno Lite laced to Sturmey Archer 70mm drum brake.r

How do you like that SA Drum hub, I have an idea for an old Supercourse made up with a set of these front and rear with a dyno/drum up front and a 5 speed drum rear.

gna 05-28-17 09:51 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 19603222)
It's my pleasure to share them. Definitely my favorite ride of the year. In fact, we had at least one fellow from Texas up here this year. I spoke with him a number of times, although I can't recall his name at the moment.

Mike, perhaps?

I enjoyed the pictures, too.

gna 05-28-17 10:14 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19589268)
How about a nice American English 3-speed?

https://richmond.craigslist.org/bik/6134991559.html

1961 Western Flyer/Raleigh - $150 (Mechanicsville)

https://images.craigslist.org/00U0U_...b_1200x900.jpg

condition: excellent
make / manufacturer: Western Flyer
model name / number: Tourist

This is a 1961 Western Flyer Tourist. It is made in England and it is a rare find. Especially in this good of condition. Not many of this model Western Flyers made. They were produced by Raleigh and badged for Western Flyer stores. Bike looks great for the age! It has the 3 speed Sturney Archer hub and works fine. Still has the original "Davis Deluxe" front tire.
Great rider and well worth the price!

The bike recycler near me had a Lady's Western Flyer. It was blue, smaller frame. I wonder if he still has it...

Velocivixen 05-28-17 10:16 PM

[MENTION=332373]bwilli88[/MENTION] - I can't install it yet because the Raleigh Twenty has 90 mm fork dropouts & front hub is 100mm. Need to spread forks tomorrow & file ends to accept a wider axle. I'll let you know, once it's done.

arty dave 05-28-17 10:19 PM

I have the x-fdd and an x-rd8(w) I laced into 26" wheels for an 80's mountain bike. Both in the 70mm drum which stops 95kg me plus bike and gear in as short a space as any rim braking bike I own. The nice thing about them is how smooth, quiet and reliable they are in any weather. I would highly recommend using them with longer levers, you won't have to squeeze harder but will have that much more mechanical advantage. I never got around to getting dynamo lights so can't comment on the dynamo output. I've read that the new rotary shifting 5 speed drum hubs (rx-rd5) have stronger internals than the x-rd5. There's also a rotary shifting 4 speed drum hub in the latest line-up.

bwilli88 05-29-17 01:02 AM

Thanks [MENTION=283918]arty dave[/MENTION] I have 2 frames that I would like to use and not sure which one. The previously mentioned Supercourse and a 83 Gazelle town bike
The Gazelle in its state now with a drum front and a 2 speed auto SRAM coaster brake rear and 635 SS rims with Schwalbe cruisers 42x635
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i..._162626193.jpg

The Supercourse is now a bare frame in the basement
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...63622175_1.jpg

arty dave 05-29-17 02:23 AM

Both lovely bikes...the Gazelle looks great as it is & it's drum is cool. Is it a 90mm drum?. Do you have too much hill for the 2 speed? That's why I decided on the 8 after borrowing a 5 speed and finding my local hills getting the better of me :) I've moved since then and my 3 speed is fun again.

bwilli88 05-29-17 02:51 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19617146)
Both lovely bikes...the Gazelle looks great as it is & it's drum is cool. Is it a 90mm drum?. Do you have too much hill for the 2 speed? That's why I decided on the 8 after borrowing a 5 speed and finding my local hills getting the better of me :) I've moved since then and my 3 speed is fun again.

The Gazelle has a 70mm drum and regarding the 2 speed, I have ridden 100km here in Cambodia with only 30m of climb. I am thinking of taking this to the States and building it there with the 70mm drum 5 speed rear which would be great for Lancaster, PA.

capnjonny 05-29-17 07:50 AM

farewell to the Raleigh sport
 
1 Attachment(s)
I said goodbye Saturday to the 78 root beer Raleigh Sport I recently refurbed for the Bike Exchange. It was another beautiful Garage queen that was donated to us last year.


The paint on it was almost perfect. I clear coated the fenders and chain guard with Rustoleum clear lacquer and it made them really pop.

Other mods included an new SA shifter and cable, new chain, Grips, brake cables and covers. tires, front Aluminum rim, pedals, and a Pletcher rack. The back chrome wheel was rusty and pitted so I removed all the rust and then clear coated the rim , taping off the sides where the brake pads rub so it will stop.

So Saturday an older gent came in with his wife looking for a bike for exercise. He loved the Raleigh but it was just too big for him. We got him on an old Giant city bike that fit him better. It was a gift at $110. plus tax.

Waiting in the wings was a beautiful young Asian woman who was in love with the Raleigh. It fit her perfectly.

I just had to tell her all about it and point out all the things that had been done. I felt like I was saying goodbye To a daughter as she went away to college.

She paid us $125. plus tax for the bike. A real steal of a deal. I am o/k with that though as I know she will cherish the old girl.

Cute Boy Horse 05-29-17 09:32 AM

UK-spec Superbe Dawn Tourist, wearing a Lepper Primus saddle. I need to replace the mudflap at some point or another, maybe get one of those dynoluxe batteries. Still got the fork key, and a pletcher rack that I don't think suits the colour.

https://s14.postimg.org/jxau8hiz5/superbe_RR_half.jpg
https://s23.postimg.org/4t51xzxjv/superbe_FR_half.jpg

I feel so bad for people with American-spec superbes. They're just sports but with fork locks!

noglider 05-29-17 12:37 PM

Nice work on the front wheel, [MENTION=355580]Velocivixen[/MENTION]. I haven't used that hub extensively. As I said, it needed a little breaking in before the brake worked optimally, and that's OK. The trouble now is that there is this abrasive sound, and I have to sand down the drum. The project is on hold for now. I plan to put emery paper or some such between the shoes and the drum and run the brake for a bit. This sounds bad, but I'm not sure it's an indictment on the hub. My biggest complaint is that it's really heavy, but that's the nature of drum brake hubs. Others have listed drum brakes' advantages, and they are true enough. New York's Citi Bike uses drum brake hubs, and it's the right choice for that application. And the Sturmey Archer front hub is also a work of art.

The two speed hub sounds cool. I end up using only two out of three speeds on a three speed bike since the gears are so far apart. It would be nice if the two speed saved a little weight, but I think it doesn't.

Salubrious 05-30-17 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19617616)
UK-spec Superbe Dawn Tourist, wearing a Lepper Primus saddle. I need to replace the mudflap at some point or another, maybe get one of those dynoluxe batteries. Still got the fork key, and a pletcher rack that I don't think suits the colour.

https://s14.postimg.org/jxau8hiz5/superbe_RR_half.jpg
https://s23.postimg.org/4t51xzxjv/superbe_FR_half.jpg

I feel so bad for people with American-spec superbes. They're just sports but with fork locks!

-And a rack, Dynohub and lighting.

JohnDThompson 05-30-17 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 19617616)
I feel so bad for people with American-spec superbes. They're just sports but with fork locks!


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19619788)
-And a rack, Dynohub and lighting.

And a Brooks B-66 saddle.

clubman 05-30-17 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19619788)
-And a rack, Dynohub and lighting.

And 3 point mudguard mounts, and Brooks saddles and colour matched prestube racks (pletscher ugh) and dual mudguard stays.

And sometimes chrome forks with lamp mounts, drop bars, EA1 wheelsets and SW hubs. :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/zy...=w746-h1017-no

Renngrrl 05-30-17 12:05 PM

2 Attachment(s)
speaking of rear racks on 3 speeds, can anyone id this rear rack?

Attachment 565348Attachment 565349

Cute Boy Horse 05-30-17 04:28 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 19619788)
-And a rack, Dynohub and lighting.

Aye, but these american "superbes" are fitted with the dynohub lighting set that was meant as an optional extra on bikes not normally equipped so. Superbes everywhere else got the Dyno-three gear hub.

Missing pump, no Dyno-three, no mudflap or gearcase, steel rack instead of brooks saddle bag, cable-brakes only, I imagine they were aiming more for recreational use and cost reducing it to death while they were at it?

More choice of colours though, I'll give you that much.

thumpism 05-30-17 05:52 PM


Originally Posted by Renngrrl (Post 19620108)
speaking of rear racks on 3 speeds, can anyone id this rear rack?

Attachment 565348Attachment 565349

Judging by the look of the frame I'd say the rack is original to the bike, whatever the hell it is. Crazy bottom bracket junction!

clubman 05-30-17 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by Renngrrl (Post 19620108)
speaking of rear racks on 3 speeds, can anyone id this rear rack?

Attachment 565348Attachment 565349

Looks like a 70's/90's Dutch rack, like on this Gazelle.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5267/...e57c6509_b.jpg

gster 05-30-17 07:52 PM

1972 Raleigh Sports Progress Report
 
1 Attachment(s)
This bike has gone to a new owner. A youngish (30) friend of the family. Sold for cost plus new parts. He pretty much beat his 3 speed CCM to death. Left it outside all winter, no maintenance etc. I've explained to him that unlike modern machines, that are somewhat disposable, a vintage British bicycle will last a lifetime (or two) with regular user attention and maintenance. I'm not sure if he was paying attention but I sure hope he was......
Attachment 565387

clubman 05-30-17 08:00 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19620841)
Judging by the look of the frame I'd say the rack is original to the bike, whatever the hell it is. Crazy bottom bracket junction!

THats a Thompson style BB typically found on German and Austrian mid level bikes. so [MENTION=459640]Renngrrl[/MENTION], Germany may also be a source for your rack. There are gazillions of these, no hyperbole.

Cute Boy Horse 05-31-17 04:28 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19620897)
Looks like a 70's/90's Dutch rack, like on this Gazelle.

Yeah I think there's no chance to ID it on a specific model, ones just like it are sold under dozens of names here.

noglider 05-31-17 09:21 AM

[MENTION=185977]clubman[/MENTION], I think I remember seeing that style BB on Italian folding bikes, too. My mother had such a bike when I was a kid. It had a Torpedo three speed hub.

Does coating a bike with WD-40 serve as winter protection from someone who is going to leave a bike out all winter? Well it can't hurt, can it?

Cute Boy Horse 05-31-17 09:22 AM

No. WD40 won't do anything, first rain and it's gone.


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