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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 12-18-23 04:23 PM

I've gotten keys in the past for Raleigh fork locks by getting the lock code number and buying the keys from Steve's Lock Shoppe in Texas. He does mostly car keys, but he's has done bicycle keys for me.

British Models Served by Steve's Lock Shoppe

Salubrious 12-19-23 11:18 AM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 23103959)
Does anyone know how to obtain a key for the raleigh sport 3 spdfork. I am restoring one currently that has the keyed fork but no key. A woman whose husband just died donated his old Raleigh to the bike Exchange and asked if she could have first right of refusal to purchase it back when we sell it. I am doing a mechanical resto including a clear coat to lock in the nice patina and would like to be able to give her a key for the fork.

You can find them on eBay, such as this:
fork key
I've bought several of them and they've worked fine.

Small cog 12-19-23 10:23 PM

Does anyone own a "lightweight tourist" three or four speed? I have noticed that nearly all of the English manufacturers who produced Reynolds 531 framed lightweight clubman models such as the Raleigh Lenton in the post war period usually produced a tourist version often the same bike with flat bars and a chainguard. As someone who is averse to drop handlebars these models are quite appealing to me but are quite rare and difficult to replicate due to their unique decals which are often unavailable now, the ultimate has to be the Raleigh RRA but I have only ever found photos of one tourist and that was a ladies model, I have seen a Lenton Tourist in the flesh and rather like the look of the Hercules Kestrel in green with white panels but have only ever seen an advertising drawing of one.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...50bb719e0d.jpg

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...28f612619e.jpg

Cyclespanner 12-20-23 03:19 AM

Ooo!
A model I wasn't aware of but will look out for info on them.
I recently bought a NOS Brooks saddlebag just as illustrated.
This certainly ads a little authenticity; I know the Carradice bags are popular, but to me they are too much of a 'bag' looking,
Now looking for a bag support (or make one)..

EDIT
''Three-speed, 531, tourist, English manufacture? Amazingly enough, available brand new. Pashley Kingsman:''

Had a look at the Pashley web sight, which mentions nothing about weight.
Like all their products, I have no doubt the 'Kingsman' will be substantially heavier than the 'Rivierra' I bought recently for 31.
And 1200.

tcs 12-20-23 06:11 AM


Originally Posted by Small cog (Post 23105272)
Does anyone own a "lightweight tourist" three or four speed? I have noticed that nearly all of the English manufacturers who produced Reynolds 531 framed lightweight clubman models such as the Raleigh Lenton in the post war period usually produced a tourist version often the same bike with flat bars and a chainguard. As someone who is averse to drop handlebars these models are quite appealing to me but are quite rare...

Three-speed, 531, tourist, English manufacture? Amazingly enough, available brand new. Pashley Kingsman:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21ad571500.png

The omission of an X-FDD is unfortunate, but given the reality of today's supply chains, forgivable.

Small cog 12-20-23 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by tcs (Post 23105383)
Three-speed, 531, tourist, English manufacture? Amazingly enough, available brand new. Pashley Kingsman:

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...21ad571500.png

The omission of an X-FDD is unfortunate, but given the reality of today's supply chains, forgivable.

I rather like the Pashley Morgan 3 but not the modern components, bah humbug! and asked them if they would sell me a frameset so I could build it up with vintage SA components but the answer was no.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0d109e078.jpg

SirMike1983 12-20-23 09:02 AM

I love lightweight tourist bikes. They fall in between a club/sporting model and a regular light roadster. I've got three bikes like that now - 1949 Clubman, 1951 Silver Arrow, 1953 Lenton. These started as drop bar bikes but I prefer swept back or North Road type bars. I think it's an overlooked kind of bike that has a lot to offer if you like upright type bars. If you have a good frame to start with, it's not too difficult to build one up if you cannot find an original. The originals are unusual to find today, but building one can make an excellent bike.

The 1949 Clubman:

https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...016_175225.jpg

Salubrious 12-20-23 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Small cog (Post 23105272)
Does anyone own a "lightweight tourist" three or four speed? I have noticed that nearly all of the English manufacturers who produced Reynolds 531 framed lightweight clubman models such as the Raleigh Lenton in the post war period usually produced a tourist version often the same bike with flat bars and a chainguard. As someone who is averse to drop handlebars these models are quite appealing to me but are quite rare and difficult to replicate due to their unique decals which are often unavailable now, the ultimate has to be the Raleigh RRA but I have only ever found photos of one tourist and that was a ladies model, I have seen a Lenton Tourist in the flesh and rather like the look of the Hercules Kestrel in green with white panels but have only ever seen an advertising drawing of one.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...50bb719e0d.jpg

A friend of mine has one. It was built custom for the original owner (he is the second; bought it for his wife). Its the shortest frame size they made and is a men's frame. All of the parts that you expect to see on a regular Raleigh Sports that are in steel were made with alloy on this bike, right down to the brake calipers and crankset. So it looks like a 50s Raleigh Sports but is made with Reynolds 531 and alloy parts.

I have a Rudge Pathfinder built up in a similar fashion
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99ea307737.jpgThe ride is quite regal owing to the geometry. The saddle is a Brooks B72 rebuilt by Rudi Mayr.

Small cog 12-20-23 11:52 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23105678)
A friend of mine has one. It was built custom for the original owner (he is the second; bought it for his wife). Its the shortest frame size they made and is a men's frame. All of the parts that you expect to see on a regular Raleigh Sports that are in steel were made with alloy on this bike, right down to the brake calipers and crankset. So it looks like a 50s Raleigh Sports but is made with Reynolds 531 and alloy parts.

I have a Rudge Pathfinder built up in a similar fashion
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...99ea307737.jpgThe ride is quite regal owing to the geometry. The saddle is a Brooks B72 rebuilt by Rudi Mayr.

A nice looking Rudge and yes the RRA was a bespoke build with a choice of colours, decals and components many of them being unique to that model, I read somewhere that you ordered one then waited up to a year for delivery.

Salubrious 12-20-23 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by Small cog (Post 23105686)
A nice looking Rudge and yes the RRA was a bespoke build with a choice of colours, decals and components many of them being unique to that model, I read somewhere that you ordered one then waited up to a year for delivery.

Yes- the story I heard on my friend's machine is it took 2 years.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 12:56 PM


Originally Posted by Small cog (Post 23105272)
Does anyone own a "lightweight tourist" three or four speed?

I don't, but on my List of Projects I'll Never Get Around To, I've had thoughts of taking a 70's era Raleigh ten speed, at least one of the better frames (Super Course MK II upward) and making it a three speed of some sort. Those bikes are a lot easier to find than the earlier rarified British lightweights.

I once had the opportunity to buy an early 60's ten speed Lenton for cheap, but passed. The guy selling it told me the original owner toured Europe on it and applied an oval country sticker for each nation they toured. But someone in the interim peeled those stickers, leaving a wrecked paint job.

Cyclespanner 12-20-23 12:56 PM

Making bicycles 'isn't rocket science' as we used to be so fond of saying.

There's been 2 Lenton frames on UK ebay during the last week at reasonable prices.

So it's not impossible to build a lightweight tourist to your own spec, using mainly a wide variety of used lightweight components (no shame in that) at a real discount.

It's also possible to build a frame from scratch, but I doubt that would be economical, if not overly so.

Of course none of these solutions are the authentic 'real thing', but your build would be unique and be undoubtedly a 'real thing'.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23105766)
Making bicycles 'isn't rocket science' as we used to be so fond of saying.

Is this directed at me, or someone else?

Cyclespanner 12-20-23 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23105776)
Is this directed at me, or someone else?

You may have noticed I hadn't quoted your post.

Of course my contribution is not specifically directed at you, merely me adding my own thoughts on this 'lightweight tourist' theme.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 01:22 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23105796)
You may have noticed I hadn't quoted your post.

I did notice, but that doesn't necessarily matter, as many folks on BF don't quote when they're directly responding to something. Not saying that's you though. I just wanted to double-check, since yours came right after mine.

nlerner 12-20-23 01:27 PM

I have in my fleet a 1950 Lenton Tourist, which I found as a frameset on eBay, so build possibilities were wide open (and the original mostly alloy parts would be hard to find). I ended up fitting it with 700c wheels and 32mm tires, steel calipers and crankset that came off of a ‘49 Claud Butler, Bluemels mudguards, Brooks B15, GB stem, and Nitto bars. Currently I’m running it with a SRAM 2-speed automatic shifting hub, but mostly it’s had an AW hub. I’ve always liked the ride and the kind of stealth Raleigh Sports quality with very understated graphics.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...edf74cce3.jpeg

SirMike1983 12-20-23 01:29 PM

I think a 1970s Super Course would make a nice starting place. It's a good, mid-level frame: not too expensive, not too rare, but also certainly a notch about the basic frames. A Dawes Galaxy might be another option, especially if you like a little more relaxed frame.

Raleigh made a high-end upright bar tourer in the 1970s known as the "Super Tourer". They apparently did not sell all that well, but the kind of bike we're talking has been tried on a few occasions between the 1930s and the 1970s.

I think the problem was that this kind of bike was, "neither fish nor fowl": too expensive and less equipped than a commuter would want, and too laid back or too pedestrian for a competitive rider.

Frankly, it's perfect for the person who rides casually for fun but who also wants something a little "extra" in the way of performance (especially if there are hills nearby). I'm in that category, but the market did not agree back in the day, I guess.

Cyclespanner 12-20-23 01:35 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23105809)
I did notice, but that doesn't necessarily matter, as many folks on BF don't quote when they're directly responding to something. Not saying that's you though. I just wanted to double-check, since yours came right after mine.

Sincere Best Wishes to you, friend.
Would it have made any difference if I had quoted you?

The following post by 'nlerner' illustrates the point I was trying to make. Now that's a super bike!

nlerner 12-20-23 01:38 PM

I’ve done a bunch of single-speed or IGH conversions to 70s road bikes. Most successful in terms of ride quality was a Dawes Galaxy and various Super Courses and Gran(d) Sport(s). Least successful was a Raleigh Competition, which never handled very well; I suspect it wanted more weight distributed toward the front end as would be true with drop bars. FWIW, I felt the same about the 70s Super Tourer, essentially a Competition with a few aesthetic variations.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by Cyclespanner (Post 23105821)
Would it have made any difference if I had quoted you?

If you were specifically talking to me, yes.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23105814)
I think a 1970s Super Course would make a nice starting place. It's a good, mid-level frame: not too expensive, not too rare, but also certainly a notch about the basic frames. A Dawes Galaxy might be another option, especially if you like a little more relaxed frame.

Raleigh made a high-end upright bar tourer in the 1970s known as the "Super Tourer". They apparently did not sell all that well, but the kind of bike we're talking has been tried on a few occasions between the 1930s and the 1970s.

I think the problem was that this kind of bike was, "neither fish nor fowl": too expensive and less equipped than a commuter would want, and too laid back or too pedestrian for a competitive rider.

Frankly, it's perfect for the person who rides casually for fun but who also wants something a little "extra" in the way of performance (especially if there are hills nearby). I'm in that category, but the market did not agree back in the day, I guess.

I think I remember you talking about that Super Tourer on your blog. And I hear you about "neither fish nor fowl". By the 1970's a "serious bike" in many people's heads had to have drop bars and ten speeds, so anything that bucked that trend was seen as inferior. Yet most casual riders prefer upright bars, so we got such lovely compromises as "suicide levers". And look at the revulsion that most "serious" cyclists had to hybrids in the 90s. Granted, many of them were mediocre bikes, but they were also perfectly serviceable and what many folks wanted to ride. I'm glad that people are finally poking holes through the "drop bars=serious bikes" trope

Cyclespanner 12-20-23 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23105825)
If you were specifically talking to me, yes.

How/Why?
Like 99.9% here this forum thread is a source of immense pleasure to me and I have no wish to spoil anyone's day. I'm not trolling you or anybody else.
Take care and stay well.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 01:48 PM


Originally Posted by cyclespanner (Post 23105840)
how/why?
Like 99.9% here this forum thread is a source of immense pleasure to me and i have no wish to spoil anyone's day. I'm not trolling you or anybody else.
Take care and stay well.

ok.

SirMike1983 12-20-23 01:57 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23105839)
I think I remember you talking about that Super Tourer on your blog. And I hear you about "neither fish nor fowl". By the 1970's a "serious bike" in many people's heads had to have drop bars and ten speeds, so anything that bucked that trend was seen as inferior. Yet most casual riders prefer upright bars, so we got such lovely compromises as "suicide levers". And look at the revulsion that most "serious" cyclists had to hybrids in the 90s. Granted, many of them were mediocre bikes, but they were also perfectly serviceable and what many folks wanted to ride. I'm glad that people are finally poking holes through the "drop bars=serious bikes" trope

Very true. Many times in its long history bicycling has endured in spite of "serious cyclists", not because of them.

Salubrious 12-20-23 02:35 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 23105814)
I think a 1970s Super Course would make a nice starting place. It's a good, mid-level frame: not too expensive, not too rare, but also certainly a notch about the basic frames. A Dawes Galaxy might be another option, especially if you like a little more relaxed frame.

On the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, the Super Course or International are often seen, set up as 3 speeds.

Jeff Jones, the guy that sells the Jones bars, is adamant that if you are not racing you've no business with dropped bars as they trade comfort for speed. Comfort is what allows you to stay on the bike and put in some miles. OK youth allows that too since you can put up with discomfort better and may not even know what it is...

Most of my bikes have some kind of upright riding position either with a North Road bend or Jones bars.

I have four clubmen-style bikes now and feeling like I need to let one go. That would put either the Lenton Marque Three or the Rudge on the chopping block, if anyone is interested PM.

SirMike1983 12-20-23 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23105876)
On the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, the Super Course or International are often seen, set up as 3 speeds.

Jeff Jones, the guy that sells the Jones bars, is adamant that if you are not racing you've no business with dropped bars as they trade comfort for speed. Comfort is what allows you to stay on the bike and put in some miles. OK youth allows that too since you can put up with discomfort better and may not even know what it is...

Most of my bikes have some kind of upright riding position either with a North Road bend or Jones bars.

I have four clubmen-style bikes now and feeling like I need to let one go. That would put either the Lenton Marque Three or the Rudge on the chopping block, if anyone is interested PM.

I've tried various permutations of drop bars on my bikes, but none ever measured up to North Road bars. I guess there are people who do well with certain types of drop bars. I don't doubt the bars may be comfortable for them, but I've never had much luck with drop bars, especially compared to North Road or similar tourist bars.

My New Hudson Silver Arrow has North Roads, my Raleigh Lenton has North Roads, and my Clubman has Nitto swept back bars. They're all great bars and very comfortable. The Nittos are also very light in weight compared to traditional steel bars.

gna 12-20-23 04:10 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23105765)
I don't, but on my List of Projects I'll Never Get Around To, I've had thoughts of taking a 70's era Raleigh ten speed, at least one of the better frames (Super Course MK II upward) and making it a three speed of some sort. Those bikes are a lot easier to find than the earlier rarified British lightweights.

I once had the opportunity to buy an early 60's ten speed Lenton for cheap, but passed. The guy selling it told me the original owner toured Europe on it and applied an oval country sticker for each nation they toured. But someone in the interim peeled those stickers, leaving a wrecked paint job.

We were kicking this around on another thread recently: Building a light drop bar SA 3 Speed
I've been prowling CL and Facebook marketplace looking for an '80s frame. Chromoly would be nice, but I may have to settle for hi ten. I have some 36H SA hubs, so I'd build lace one up in some 700c rims from the recycler and away I'd go. There's a Raleigh Reliant up for cheap I may buy just for this project.

adventurepdx 12-20-23 07:38 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 23105876)
On the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, the Super Course or International are often seen, set up as 3 speeds.

True. And even a basic Grand Prix can make a fine 3 speed. This was Garth's from the 2014 Pepin tour:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72c8342016.jpg

gna 12-20-23 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 23106129)
True. And even a basic Grand Prix can make a fine 3 speed. This was Garth's from the 2014 Pepin tour:

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...72c8342016.jpg

Ooh nice. There's a Grand Prix I could look at, too.

browngw 12-20-23 10:12 PM

On the topic of drop-bar three-speeds. Although certainly not a lightweight frame, my 1971 Robin Hood "Sports Model" was a fine machine I owned for many years. It was sold this spring at the Canadian Vintage Bicycle Show and now lives a life of luxury with its new owner as part of an exhibition.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d2ac92528b.jpg


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