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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

paulb_in_bkln 05-03-18 06:35 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20320132)
I'm surprised to learn that the new IG hubs don't have oil ports. Adding one makes perfect sense to me. Adding a few drops of oil every once in a while is far easier than tearing down a hub and regreasing and it works just fine. I'm positive that running them dry is a bad idea. Grease will dry up after a while, so that's exactly what will happen.

Running it dry would be really bad! I'm sure oil would be perfectly good for lubrication, but it will leak a bit out the so-called seals, and I saw someone with a disc brake setup show how it then gets on the brake disc. Caliper brakes? Oil away. If the Shimano grease or something similar is used liberally as they instruct and the hub doesn't get submerged I doubt it is going to dry or cake in anything less than five years, maybe even closer to ten. At five years it's time for me to do a repack, and I'll let everyone know what I find.

Edit: I think the idea of Shimano's grease is not that it has any special friction fighting properties but that it's as thin as a grease can be made and still be held in by the hub seals.

Dewey101 05-03-18 06:40 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20320165)
$400? You're right--that's hardly more than the price of the hub and accessories separately, and almost embarrasses what I paid for the Public mixte five years ago. Sigh.

local bike shops do seem to be caught between flat sales and an industry restructuring to sell either high end or low priced models, I can't tell if it's because of over-production, increasing competition from online, discount stores, bikeshare, mobile sales out of vans, and direct-to-consumer brands, or more likely a combination of all of the above. I don't understand the economics of the bicycle industry, but I would hate for the IBD model to go away as I value test riding in person before I buy. Bailey told me as a small business owner selling bikes in urban Arlington VA he faced a choice between supplementing his bread and butter sales of the Giant brand he is a dealer for by chasing high value small volume sales among high-end racing or selling Giant's ebikes so he has chosen the latter and they get more floor space than previously. I wish him well, I'm not looking forward to when he retires because he has been so helpful renovating our Raleigh Sports, the next nearest shop to me that services older bikes is 20 miles away, they had a pre-war Rudge up on the bike stand when I popped in a couple of weeks ago. Also I get that sales are seasonal but I'm confused as to whether if consumer prices start to rise faster than wages and a bicycle is a discretionary purchase that would result in fewer sales or if gas prices rise but people still need to get around would this increase sales?

paulb_in_bkln 05-03-18 06:52 AM

Is there a sub-forum for IGHs? I didn't see one.

Dewey101 05-03-18 06:57 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20320201)
Is there a sub-forum for IGHs? I didn't see one.

Because IGH's appeal to a variety maybe the mods felt they should be discussed in the existing forums for Classic, Commuters, Utility, and Recreational cyclists?

paulb_in_bkln 05-03-18 07:05 AM


Originally Posted by Dewey101 (Post 20320189)
local bike shops do seem to be caught between flat sales and an industry restructuring to sell either high end or low priced models direct, I can't tell if it's because of over-production, increasing competition from online, discount stores, bikeshare, mobile sales out of vans, and direct-to-consumer brands, or more likely a combination of all of the above. I don't understand the economics of the bicycle industry, but I would hate for the IBD model to go away as I value test riding in person before I buy. Bailey told me as a small business owner selling bikes in urban Arlington VA he faced a choice between chasing high value small volume sales among high-end racing or selling ebikes so he has chosen the latter and they get more floor space than previously. Also I get that sales are seasonal but I'm confused as to whether if consumer prices start to rise faster than wages and a bicycle is a discretionary purchase that would result in fewer sales or if gas prices rise but people still need to get around would this increase sales?

It's pretty tough here for bike shops. NYC is tough all around for retail. Rent! The rent is too damn high! (I work in retail, too.) Too high to compete with web prices. So my friend now has a very small space and doesn't bother much with new bikes. He'll special order on request or take delivery from someplace like Bikesdirect or Nashbar and do the assembly and checkout for a customer. Otherwise it's repairs, some parts and accessories, and selling some reconditioned bikes. His day now is a string of food delivery guys needing flat tires fixed. $15 a pop. A major retailer here, Bike Habitat, is doing much more of their business in accessories and clothing. "It's not like the old days, but it'll do." (Final line from The Wild Bunch.)

noglider 05-03-18 07:28 AM

There is also a shop in my neighborhood, probably larger than your friend's, which is similar. It's called Waterfront Bicycle Shop, on West St near Christopher St. He sells accessories, rents bikes, and does repairs. He doesn't sell new bikes. He's been there a few years, and he has staff, so I guess he's doing OK.

BigChief 05-03-18 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20320181)
Running it dry would be really bad! I'm sure oil would be perfectly good for lubrication, but it will leak a bit out the so-called seals, and I saw someone with a disc brake setup show how it then gets on the brake disc. Caliper brakes? Oil away. If the Shimano grease or something similar is used liberally as they instruct and the hub doesn't get submerged I doubt it is going to dry or cake in anything less than five years, maybe even closer to ten. At five years it's time for me to do a repack, and I'll let everyone know what I find.

Edit: I think the idea of Shimano's grease is not that it has any special friction fighting properties but that it's as thin as a grease can be made and still be held in by the hub seals.

It's true that my perspective might be skewed from taking apart AW hubs that haven't been serviced in decades and finding old hardened grease and varnish left on bearing races. I don't really know how long fresh grease will protect wheel bearings or the inner workings of an IG hub.One thing I can say with certainty is that oil added to an AW hub will tend to spread all around, even to the wheel bearings. If you don't add much, like maybe 10 ML, it will keep things lubricated and not leak enough to cause anything more than some seeping around the cones and oil port.

paulb_in_bkln 05-03-18 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20320283)
If you don't add much, like maybe 10 ML, it will keep things lubricated and not leak enough to cause anything more than some seeping around the cones and oil port.

Right. I don't think the seepage or leaking would be significant and any sort of problem except in the one case I read about, where there's a brake disc and oil from inside the hub seeped past the seals onto the disc. Even then, maybe whoever oiled the hub just used too much oil.

johnnyspaghetti 05-03-18 08:58 AM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e99ff3fe84.jpg
Did things change that much with the forum upgrade.

paulb_in_bkln 05-03-18 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20320431)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e99ff3fe84.jpg
Did things change that much with the forum upgrade.

I don't know much about Rivs, so if they come up, I will be lurking.

capnjonny 05-03-18 06:30 PM

My Scorcher
 
I have been wanting to build up a scorcher for a while so when a 23" frame 1972 Raleigh Sport showed up at the Bike Exchange last week I had to take it home and have my way with it. As you all may know I like painting bikes and I thought this grungy looking black beast would look good in British racing green with tan sidewalls but the more I looked at the crude and weathered black paint and all the license stickers the more I decided I liked it better looking like it had seen some action. Actually, apart from a loose head set and bottom bracket everything was pretty good. There wasn't any real rust on the frame and the steel wheels were only slightly pitted. I stripped it down and cleaned all the grease and dirt off the frame and polished the rims with aluminum foil. I flipped the original bars and put on an aluminum SR stem. The pedals were swapped for some steel Lyotards and the seat for a light weight racing saddle. I dumped the fenders, kick stand,https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7cfc276dc.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd3ef8fa08.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6f9e68be1.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49dcd26189.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5bff002e02.jpg
and chain guard and added a Pletcher rack in the back. I also changed the stock 20 tooth cog in the rear for a 24 tooth to give it a chance to climb hills.
That's it . When I weighed it it came to just 31 lbs. Down from 35.5 when I started. I could probably drop a few more if I fitted an aluminum front wheel. I will keep an eye out for one at the shop.

BigChief 05-03-18 07:54 PM

Nice! A proper scorcher. I agree, the been around a long time look looks great on this bike. Now you'll have to find another tall frame Sports with a crummy finish you won't mind refinishing to build a British racing green scorcher :thumb:

gster 05-03-18 08:29 PM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20321384)
I have been wanting to build up a scorcher for a while so when a 23" frame 1972 Raleigh Sport showed up at the Bike Exchange last week I had to take it home and have my way with it. As you all may know I like painting bikes and I thought this grungy looking black beast would look good in British racing green with tan sidewalls but the more I looked at the crude and weathered black paint and all the license stickers the more I decided I liked it better looking like it had seen some action. Actually, apart from a loose head set and bottom bracket everything was pretty good. There wasn't any real rust on the frame and the steel wheels were only slightly pitted. I stripped it down and cleaned all the grease and dirt off the frame and polished the rims with aluminum foil. I flipped the original bars and put on an aluminum SR stem. The pedals were swapped for some steel Lyotards and the seat for a light weight racing saddle. I dumped the fenders, kick stand,https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d7cfc276dc.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd3ef8fa08.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6f9e68be1.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...49dcd26189.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5bff002e02.jpg
and chain guard and added a Pletcher rack in the back. I also changed the stock 20 tooth cog in the rear for a 24 tooth to give it a chance to climb hills.
That's it . When I weighed it it came to just 31 lbs. Down from 35.5 when I started. I could probably drop a few more if I fitted an aluminum front wheel. I will keep an eye out for one at the shop.

Nice project and a quick turnaround.
If it was mine, I'd loose the rat trap.

Kilroy1988 05-03-18 09:58 PM

I'm considering picking up a mid-'70s Raleigh Sports or DL-1. I was just curious about how the two compare for longer rides, and also what the weight difference is between the two (roughly)? Thanks!

paulb_in_bkln 05-04-18 04:27 AM


Originally Posted by capnjonny (Post 20321384)
I have been wanting to build up a scorcher for a while so when a 23" frame 1972 Raleigh Sport showed up at the Bike Exchange last week I had to take it home and have my way with it.

Great find, especially as the larger frame sizes seem to come around a lot less often than the smaller. Finding a pair of steel or alloy pedals for mine is one of the next tasks. I'm just coming off my weekend (Wednesdays and Thursdays) when all I used were the new Rudge for some fast ("fast") loop riding in the neighboring park and the step thru Sports for the daily getting around tasks (supermarket, movie, post office, bank, kibbitzing at the LBS). For the latter I don't think a more perfect machine has been devised.

BigChief 05-04-18 08:23 AM


Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 (Post 20321615)
I'm considering picking up a mid-'70s Raleigh Sports or DL-1. I was just curious about how the two compare for longer rides, and also what the weight difference is between the two (roughly)? Thanks!

My DL-1 must weigh 5 or 6 pounds more than my Sports. It also has wider ( 1 1/2" ) tires. The DL-1 also has rear forks instead of dropouts that makes removing the rear wheel much more difficult. It also has rod brakes that can work OK but are much more difficult to set up. That said, I love riding my DL-1. There's nothing else quite like it, very smooth and elegant, but it's even less "normal" than a Sports. The Sports will roll easier and has quicker steering but it doesn't handle uneven road surfaces, bumps or sand nearly as well.

BigChief 05-04-18 11:33 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20321762)
Great find, especially as the larger frame sizes seem to come around a lot less often than the smaller. Finding a pair of steel or alloy pedals for mine is one of the next tasks. I'm just coming off my weekend (Wednesdays and Thursdays) when all I used were the new Rudge for some fast ("fast") loop riding in the neighboring park and the step thru Sports for the daily getting around tasks (supermarket, movie, post office, bank, kibbitzing at the LBS). For the latter I don't think a more perfect machine has been devised.

I've been using these MKS Sylvan touring pedals. Very pleased with them.
MKS Sylvan

gster 05-04-18 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20322366)
I've been using these MKS Sylvan touring pedals. Very pleased with them.
MKS Sylvan

Gotta love the MKS!
Seems that all of their pedals are good.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ac3091e666.jpg


Here's a nice pair on Amazon.ca
for $200.00 + shipping!
I buy these locally for $25.00 (CDN) !

browngw 05-04-18 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Kilroy1988 (Post 20321615)
I'm considering picking up a mid-'70s Raleigh Sports or DL-1. I was just curious about how the two compare for longer rides, and also what the weight difference is between the two (roughly)? Thanks!

For longer distances and all purpose riding I would always choose my Sports first. The DL1 is heavy, long and a little "noodlely" all which contribute to its unique vintage feel and smooth ride. The wheels are noticeably heavier and carry more momentum. No other bike I've ridden feels exactly like it. That said the Sports feels quicker, lighter and more maneuverable. I am lucky to have one of each! My DL1 (Sir Wayes A. Tonne) enters the ring around 48lbs and the Robin Hood drop bar Sports is around 33lbs.https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f595a97a3e.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...104e48f7ea.jpg

gster 05-04-18 03:47 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20322612)
For longer distances and all purpose riding I would always choose my Sports first. The DL1 is heavy, long and a little "noodlely" all which contribute to its unique vintage feel and smooth ride. The wheels are noticeably heavier and carry more momentum. No other bike I've ridden feels exactly like it. That said the Sports feels quicker, lighter and more maneuverable. I am lucky to have one of each! My DL1 (Sir Wayes A. Tonne) enters the ring around 48lbs and the Robin Hood drop bar Sports is around 33lbs.https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f595a97a3e.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...104e48f7ea.jpg

Nice photos and summary.
I would opt for the Sports model as an everyday bike.
Here's another Toronto Kijiji bike.
Modified British 3 speed with the somewhat rare throttle shifter (circa 1967) on the top tube.
Seller is asking $350. but I suspect that he's got some $$ tied up in this project.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d02595e37b.jpghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...12daa8fc1a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37d443762f.jpg

gster 05-04-18 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20322806)
Nice photos and summary.
I would opt for the Sports model as an everyday bike.
Here's another Toronto Kijiji bike.
Modified British 3 speed with the somewhat rare throttle shifter (circa 1967) on the top tube.
Seller is asking $350. but I suspect that he's got some $$ tied up in this project.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d02595e37b.jpghttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...12daa8fc1a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...37d443762f.jpg

As you can see, I'm having some problems with this new format.
Speaking of new formats I had a brand new VW Tiguan for awhile (rental)
I've been driving cars for 40 years.. I had to look in the manual to figure out how to
open the gas flap.
I had the car for 3 months and still didn't know how to work the radio (media console).
I'm actually quite good with computers and stuff. I just dislike change for the sake of change.

Arrowana 05-04-18 04:08 PM

I finally got a proper saddlebag for my LTD-3, now I feel quite ready for the 3-speed tour.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...77a6ee60c3.jpg

nlerner 05-04-18 04:10 PM

^ Very nice! Looks very appropriate.

BigChief 05-04-18 04:45 PM

+1 Very classy

SirMike1983 05-04-18 07:44 PM

The comments about the DL-1 ride being unique are spot-on. Nothing rides exactly like a DL-1 or similar roadster. Some people don't like the handling, others love it. You get a squishier, slower feel out of an American balloon tire bike, and you get a nimbler and snappier feel out of a Sports light roadster. The DL-1 is its own animal.


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