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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

3speedslow 10-03-17 03:14 PM

There are a lot of those bikes which did not come with the lights it was an added expense in the US

BigChief 10-03-17 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19905052)
There are a lot of those bikes which did not come with the lights it was an added expense in the US

Yup, you'll find a lot of old 3 speeds with dings in the seat stays from bottle generators.

3speedslow 10-03-17 06:26 PM

Never been tempted to try one of those bottles on my vintage bikes. If it didn't have a hub generator, none do, I would go with modern lighting.

SirMike1983 10-03-17 07:28 PM

Bottle generator sets and rear racks are the fast ways to dent seat stays. Fortunately, it very rarely has a structural effect on the frame, and usually then is the product of very abusive installation.

BigChief 10-03-17 07:51 PM

They were awful things. I hated the drag you felt. And they needed to be grounded to the frame. Some of them used sheet metal screws that you were supposed to drill into the stays to install. That's why sometimes you see actual holes from bottle generators. Unfortunately, I'm old enough to remember when they were the only game in town if you did any night riding. They made battery powered lights, but they weren't practical at all and cast very little light. At least with the bottle generators, you could see a good 6 feet out in front of you.

JaccoW 10-03-17 11:10 PM

I came across an example of a step through frame with two cable pullies on an old Juncker frame. Was an interesting sight!

Made some pictures but I'll have to post them later since I am on mobile.

campngolf 10-03-17 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19904162)

That is a beautiful color. What a great project.

Scipunk 10-04-17 05:30 AM


Originally Posted by campngolf (Post 19905937)
That is a beautiful color. What a great project.

It really is! At first i thought some of it had faded to a orange but there are hints to it in places the paint wouldn't have faded as much.

On the other hand i believe this was originally Matador red as it's the only colour that matches from the early 60's

I pulled the rear rack and the seat post yesterday with only minimal effort, and only a small ring of rust on the bottom of the post. I tell you someone took care of this bike even if they were not 100% sure what they were doing lol.

I ordered my repair stand last night so i should be really cracking into this next week.

Are there any must have tools i should get other than my sockets, box wrenches and crescent wrench?

BigChief 10-04-17 05:43 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19906095)
It really is! At first i thought some of it had faded to a orange but there are hints to it in places the paint wouldn't have faded as much.

On the other hand i believe this was originally Matador red as it's the only colour that matches from the early 60's

I pulled the rear rack and the seat post yesterday with only minimal effort, and only a small ring of rust on the bottom of the post. I tell you someone took care of this bike even if they were not 100% sure what they were doing lol.

I ordered my repair stand last night so i should be really cracking into this next week.

Are there any must have tools i should get other than my sockets, box wrenches and crescent wrench?

I'm afraid you're going to run into a problem with wrenches. These bikes use a lot of British standard (Whitworth) sizes. I think it's important to have two cone wrenches to fit the sturmey archer hubs. You can get by with one, but if you have 2, you can adjust AW wheel bearings with the rear wheel still on the bike. Handy sometimes. Also, you don't need, but is nice to have the Park Tool HCW 5 and 11 spanners for the bottom bracket. A 15mm pedal wrench. Again, there's work a rounds, but a Bikesmith cotter press a great tool to have.
oh yes, almost forgot...a chain breaker

Scipunk 10-04-17 05:51 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19906125)
I'm afraid you're going to run into a problem with wrenches. These bikes use a lot of British standard (Whitworth) sizes. I think it's important to have two cone wrenches to fit the sturmey archer hubs. You can get by with one, but if you have 2, you can adjust the cones with the rear wheel still on the bike. Handy sometimes. Also, you don't need, but is nice to have the Park Tool HCW 5 and 11 spanners for the bottom bracket. A 15mm pedal wrench. Again, there's work a rounds, but a Bikesmith cotter press a great tool to have.

OK good to know! Do i need the 15mm? I don't mind buying a pair. I'll grab the other stuff as well :)

Thanks :)

BigChief 10-04-17 07:02 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19906132)
OK good to know! Do i need the 15mm? I don't mind buying a pair. I'll grab the other stuff as well :)

Thanks :)

Yes, the pedal wrench is one of the few standard size wrenches you'll need. Unless you have a regular 15mm thin enough to fit in between the crank and pedal. I don't have a Whitworth set myself. I use an adjustable a lot on my Raleighs. I do have a pair of the little Sturmey Archer cone wrenches.

BigChief 10-04-17 07:43 AM

Oh darn, 14 dollars? that's awful. But, anyway, here's the cone wrench I'm talking about.

NOS genuine Sturmey Archer Cone Spanner tool, made in England, Free Ship in USA | eBay

Scipunk 10-04-17 08:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19906236)
Yes, the pedal wrench is one of the few standard size wrenches you'll need. Unless you have a regular 15mm thin enough to fit in between the crank and pedal. I don't have a Whitworth set myself. I use an adjustable a lot on my Raleighs. I do have a pair of the little Sturmey Archer cone wrenches.

So here is the funny thing, my 64 doesn't have the Whitworth style wheels, but they are genuine Raleigh,and its got a pretty good size space between the crank arm and the pedal. With the serial number and other things i am beginning to worry this is a 70's frame with 64 parts on it for some reason. Except that the BB area is larger than on my 73 so i am all sorts of confused...lol


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19906335)
Oh darn, 14 dollars? that's awful. But, anyway, here's the cone wrench I'm talking about.

NOS genuine Sturmey Archer Cone Spanner tool, made in England, Free Ship in USA | eBay

Yeah that is a bit pricey, comparable to the park tool but i like that they are original :) thanks again BC!

BigChief 10-04-17 08:00 AM

Just measured mine. It's made out of 1/8" steel. The span is .635 inches in case you want to make one up. 14 dollars is too much, but I think it's an important tool for old Raleighs.

Scipunk 10-04-17 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19906381)
Just measured mine. It's made out of 1/8" steel. The span is .635 inches in case you want to make one up. 14 dollars is too much, but I think it's an important tool for old Raleighs.

Ok that's good to know, that's 16.129mm i could probably whip a couple up.

BigChief 10-04-17 08:07 AM

I think your bike is all original mid 60s. It is an odd one for sure, but original I think.

clubman 10-04-17 11:26 AM


Originally Posted by bigchief (Post 19906403)
i think your bike is all original mid 60s. It is an odd one for sure, but original i think.

+1

dweenk 10-04-17 12:50 PM

I have several Raleighs, so I bought a set of Whitworth wrenches from Azon. They came from a store (or e-store) in England named Big Red Toolbox, or something like that. It took forever for them to arrive - sixty days or more but they were held by US Customs for most of that time. The plastic wall mount for the wrenches had broken, and the tools were clanging around in the package. Evidently customs ramped up the inspection of the package and that caused the delay. When they finally arrived they were branded Siegen (sounds eastern European to me). They were high quality and highly polished.

Scipunk 10-04-17 01:43 PM

Yeah I am in agreement with you guys I just donít know enough so I question everything. I will listen to you all since you know way more than me :)

So questions:
Did the front forks use locking washers like the back and if so are they the same ones?

While I like the white grips and seat neither are comfy, can someone recommend a good looking brown leather grip that would compliment a brooks saddle (prolly a b77? ) or is it possible to replace the grips on a twist shifter ?

Anyone have a source for the white cables?

thumpism 10-04-17 01:54 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19905197)
Yup, you'll find a lot of old 3 speeds with dings in the seat stays from bottle generators.

Here's a generator track, already on my Sports when I got it. The actual problem was the ground screw that was threaded through the clamp assembly and which needed to pierce the paint for a good ground. Worked, but this was frequently the result. However, lighting has advanced and the new hub units are probably superior. I have not tried one since my lighting needs are only occasional and battery LED lights seems to work fine for me now.
Attachment 583349

clubman 10-04-17 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19906095)
On the other hand i believe this was originally Matador red as it's the only colour that matches from the early 60's

Raleigh went through a series of colour charts with different names. Here's one of them. Number 5 is a possibility allowing for fading.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CY...=w1309-h988-no

JaccoW 10-04-17 03:22 PM

Some three speeds I came across last week:
http://i.imgur.com/JFUmbn7h.jpg
Step through frame with double cable pulley (check larger image of better view)

http://i.imgur.com/f4seIYOh.jpg
And this downright ancient looking beasty

Scipunk 10-04-17 03:38 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19907513)
Raleigh went through a series of colour charts with different names. Here's one of them. Number 5 is a possibility allowing for fading.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CY...=w1309-h988-no

Hmm that seems more likely , thanks for this :)

Scipunk 10-04-17 05:00 PM

@JaccoW
Nice selection there, that second one has had a life!
@clubman
I noticed another peculiar thing today, my presstube rack has 0 markings...lol like no serial number nada. Also i think you are dead on with your color assessment, i moved the pump holder and the original crimson was there, ill get a pic in a bit.

ALSO I removed my front wheel bolts to find that my wheel refuses to detach...lol

thumpism 10-04-17 05:05 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19907802)
ALSO I removed my front wheel bolts to find that my wheel refuses to detach.

Pull the fork tips away from each other. There is frequently a little collar on each axle locknut that fits into the inside of the fork tip.

Scipunk 10-04-17 05:25 PM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19907816)
Pull the fork tips away from each other. There is frequently a little collar on each axle locknut that fits into the inside of the fork tip.

thanks for that tip, man its been years since i pulled a bike apart and these Raleigh's are finicky...lol I believe i am missing the retainers but ill get a closer look tomorrow :)

clubman 10-04-17 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19907802)

ALSO I removed my front wheel bolts to find that my wheel refuses to detach...lol

Some dropouts have a recess or keyhole for a lip on the axle nut or cone. You have to pull the forks apart and the wheel will drop out. It's a pain without the bike in a stand.

BigChief 10-04-17 06:03 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19907802)
@JaccoW
Nice selection there, that second one has had a life!
@clubman
I noticed another peculiar thing today, my presstube rack has 0 markings...lol like no serial number nada. Also i think you are dead on with your color assessment, i moved the pump holder and the original crimson was there, ill get a pic in a bit.

ALSO I removed my front wheel bolts to find that my wheel refuses to detach...lol

Some Raleigh forks are set way too tight. You should be able to lightly spread the fork and the wheel should drop out. Sometimes it's so tight that it takes two people to wrestle the wheel out. I don't put up with that. If I have to repair a flat on the road, the last thing I want is battle getting the wheel off. I reset the fork until I only have to spread it maybe 1/32". I use a scissor jack and spread the fork very slowly and check a lot to make sure I get it just right and not more than I want.
I suspect you will have the usual Raleigh front hub with no lock nuts, so when you put the wheel back on remember that the fixed cone (the one without flats for the cone spanner) must go on the right side of the bike.

johnnyspaghetti 10-04-17 07:14 PM

1 Attachment(s)
An incredibly bad shot of a fixed cable wheel with metal wheel on this 60' sports. The 1960 ladies frame has a clamp-on cable wheel low.
Note the diamond stamping on the upper rear stay tops.

https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...3&disp=safe&zw

clubman 10-04-17 08:40 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19902338)

Here's a similar pressed fork end with the recess more visible. It's a 52

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/o3...=w1604-h902-no


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