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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

paulb_in_bkln 05-30-18 06:58 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20368654)
I don't think BC appreciates being called "Old Axle Nuts".

ROFL. Sincerely!

johnnyspaghetti 05-30-18 08:08 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20367901)
As it goes for me in my rural location, 5 hours on the road and a new 3 speed. Silver Raleigh Sports with 23" frame. The size sealed the deal. AW hub with 5-77 date. I was thinking of what I had learned in just a few months on this thread. I remember being concerned about adjusting the shift on my first Raleigh earlier this year. When I saw this onehttps://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e9f96cdd0.jpg
was not going into Low I grabbed the WD40 and sprayed......spun the adjuster and in less than a minute I had all three gears. Now to find a chain guard!

I just bought one of these last weekend at a garage sale for $20 although its a 21"and it has the thumb wheel brake lever adjusters and is a 1974 SA hub. Did they discontinue the thumb wheel levers and put Weinmann brakes on that one?

Cute Boy Horse 05-30-18 08:55 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20368636)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/4...98e57acb_c.jpg
IMG20180530170221 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

Found this at the local recycling centre, got excited, got home and realised the clamp is 23.8mm not the 25.4 all my spare handlebars are :(
This is a size used (of course) by Raleigh and also other older british bikes. Not sure what to do, it's a nice stem. Guess it might just be a waiting game for the right size handlebars...I'm still looking for a rear 'quarter door' for the DL-1 chaincase but I'm starting to think it's just not going to happen...

Don't tell anyone I said this but just hammer the handlebars in there. The stem with stretch out.

Only works one way though.

desconhecido 05-30-18 10:17 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20368910)
I just bought one of these last weekend at a garage sale for $20 although its a 21"and it has the thumb wheel brake lever adjusters and is a 1974 SA hub. Did they discontinue the thumb wheel levers and put Weinmann brakes on that one?

The self-adjusting brakes only existed for a couple years, 74 was one of them. We have a 74 Sprite with them. Then they shifted to the alloy Weinmanns with the levers seen on the silver bike. It's an amazing claim, I admit, but the Weinmann brakes were an improvement.

Chaser95 05-30-18 10:33 PM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20368910)
I just bought one of these last weekend at a garage sale for $20 although its a 21"and it has the thumb wheel brake lever adjusters and is a 1974 SA hub. Did they discontinue the thumb wheel levers and put Weinmann brakes on that one?

Honestly I have not looked at the brakes yet. Maybe someone will know.

The story on the bike was that it had been brought from Europe by someone who was in the military. I do not know if it was bought there or, if it went there and back. I do know the brakes work quite well! The shift cable appears to be stretching. I have adjusted it three times today and it works as it should and then gets loose and slips in second gear. I tighten it up and all is well then it slips again and the cable is slack. I am just about out of adjustment threads.

I have a lead on another Ladies Sport that I will check out tomorrow.

desconhecido 05-30-18 11:13 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20369040)
Honestly I have not looked at the brakes yet. Maybe someone will know.

The story on the bike was that it had been brought from Europe by someone who was in the military. I do not know if it was bought there or, if it went there and back. I do know the brakes work quite well! The shift cable appears to be stretching. I have adjusted it three times today and it works as it should and then gets loose and slips in second gear. I tighten it up and all is well then it slips again and the cable is slack. I am just about out of adjustment threads.

I have a lead on another Ladies Sport that I will check out tomorrow.

It looks like a late 70s Sports made for the American market. The coffin shaped rear reflector, the wheel reflectors, etc, pretty much match the CPS stuff that was enforced back then. The graphics on the bicycle also look like typical American market Raleigh. So, it may have been purchased in Europe through the PX or it may have been shipped there and back, but it sure looks like an American market Sports.

The hub indicates that the bike is probably a 77 or 78 model. The mid to late 70s sports bikes seem to be pretty consistent with serial number system and you should be able to match your serial number to the system as described on Kurt Kaminer's Headbadge site.

About the brakes -- through most of the product life, the Sports bicycles had steel Raleigh brakes with steel Sturmey Archer levers. About 73 or so, and for just a couple years, Raleigh used a really terribly designed self adjusting brake lever coupled with a version of the steel brake calipers. The adjusters may have worked well initially, I don't know, but the design was not robust and every one of them I've seen did not work properly. About 75 or so, Raleigh started using Weinmann alloy side pull calipers with Weinmann alloy levers. That is what you have on your bike. In general, these Weinmann brakes don't get a lot of respect. But, compared to the SA/Raleigh brakes and levers they replaced, they were a significant improvement, in my opinion.

I probably shouldn't be so hard on the Raleigh steel brakes -- they probably worked about as well as could be expected with the steel rims.

About your shift cable -- it is not probable that the cable is actually stretching. There are two fittings on the frame that may be implicated. One is called the fulcrum stop, I think, and it is where the outer cable terminates in a clamped device with a slotted plastic barrel insert. If the clamp is slipping, or if the white plastic slotted barrel insert is damaged and can slide, the effective cable length can change and give the illusion of cable stretch. The other is the little guide wheel that is clamped at the bottom of the seat tube. If your cable jumps (well, they dont actually jump, I suppose) off the wheel or the clamp that holds the wheel can move or if the wheel is broken and no longer round, well, any of these problems can cause the affect you are observing. So, follow the cable from the shifter to the indicator chain and make sure that everything along the path is positioned correctly and is secure and you will probably solve the apparent cable stretch problem. Oh, one more thing about the cable path. Replacement shift cables sometimes have a little cable clamp to terminate the cable at the barrel aduster. These cable clamps can slip and the little bent steel rod that holds the cable clamp to the barrel adjuster can get bent out of shape. That can screw up your shifting also. I had problems like that with one of my bicycles as I kept snagging the cable that runs along the chain stay with my heel. As it was a diamond and not a step through, I repositioned the cable run along the top tube and seat stay, rather than down tube and chain stay. With the step through, you don't have that option -- be careful about snagging the cable.

BigChief 05-31-18 04:43 AM

About the shifter cable adjustment. The barrel nut at the indicator chain is only the fine adjustment. The coarse adjustment is made by moving cable stop (fulcrum clip) on the frame tube. So if you run out of threads at the barrel nut, adjust it back to the middle and take up the slack by moving the cable stop. I have my suspicion about the adjustment slipping. Sometime in the 70s, someone in Sturmey Archers bad idea department decided to eliminate the nut that holds tension on the cable guide wheel band. They made an extra fold in the soft steel band and drilled and tapped threads into it. These strip very easily. It's possible that the guide wheel is slipping on the frame making cable adjustment impossible.

johnnyspaghetti 05-31-18 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20369040)
Honestly I have not looked at the brakes yet. Maybe someone will know.

The story on the bike was that it had been brought from Europe by someone who was in the military. I do not know if it was bought there or, if it went there and back. I do know the brakes work quite well! The shift cable appears to be stretching. I have adjusted it three times today and it works as it should and then gets loose and slips in second gear. I tighten it up and all is well then it slips again and the cable is slack. I am just about out of adjustment threads.

I have a lead on another Ladies Sport that I will check out tomorrow.

My shift cable adjusting experience suggests slack for 3rd gear but the least amount. Variations in the straightness of the cable will effect 2nd gear engagement.. Every time you click to a lower gear it stretches the minor kinks & bends out and a mal-adjustment occurs.

SirMike1983 05-31-18 06:42 AM

I have one of the few working sets of self- adjusting brakes on my 1974 Sports. They're nice when they work. They do not increase braking power; rather thet tend to set the cable tension in case you have too loose a brake cable. They are unnecessary if you know how to set up and maintain brakes/cables.

BigChief 05-31-18 07:38 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20369279)
I have one of the few working sets of self- adjusting brakes on my 1974 Sports. They're nice when they work. They do not increase braking power; rather thet tend to set the cable tension in case you have too loose a brake cable. They are unnecessary if you know how to set up and maintain brakes/cables.

My complaint about them is I like to set full brake a little bit past half of the lever travel. When these reset, full brake is too far forward for me. I like a bit of travel before the pads contact the rims. It's simple enough to remove the little pawl spring if you prefer normal operation though.

johnnyspaghetti 05-31-18 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20369040)
Honestly I have not looked at the brakes yet. Maybe someone will know.

The story on the bike was that it had been brought from Europe by someone who was in the military. I do not know if it was bought there or, if it went there and back. I do know the brakes work quite well! The shift cable appears to be stretching. I have adjusted it three times today and it works as it should and then gets loose and slips in second gear. I tighten it up and all is well then it slips again and the cable is slack. I am just about out of adjustment threads.

I have a lead on another Ladies Sport that I will check out tomorrow.

My shift cable adjusting experience suggests slack for 3rd gear but the least amount. Variations in the straightness of the cable will effect 2nd gear engagement.. Every time you click to a lower gear it stretches the minor kinks & bends out and a mal-adjustment occurs.

DQRider 05-31-18 10:11 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20369628)
My shift cable adjusting experience suggests slack for 3rd gear but the least amount. Variations in the straightness of the cable will effect 2nd gear engagement.. Every time you click to a lower gear it stretches the minor kinks & bends out and a mal-adjustment occurs.

One of our Gentlemen Cyclists on the Lake Pepin 3-speed Tour converted his Super Course Mk.II over to an AW hub. He uses the friction shift lever on his downtube to shift the AW hub, and it seems to work very well. Adjusting the tension in High gear for a tiny bit of slack, he can put the lever somewhere in the middle for Normal, and all the way back for Low. This also allows him to adjust Normal (2nd) gear on-the-fly. A simple but brilliant solution, don't you think?

.

PatrickZ 05-31-18 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 20368636)
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/890/4...98e57acb_c.jpg
IMG20180530170221 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

Found this at the local recycling centre, got excited, got home and realised the clamp is 23.8mm not the 25.4 all my spare handlebars are :(
This is a size used (of course) by Raleigh and also other older british bikes. Not sure what to do, it's a nice stem. Guess it might just be a waiting game for the right size handlebars...I'm still looking for a rear 'quarter door' for the DL-1 chaincase but I'm starting to think it's just not going to happen...

These stems were used for three types of upright bars on the Raleigh Sprite 27s (and probably the Record, too). I definitely would not hammer a Sports handlebar in there!

paulb_in_bkln 05-31-18 11:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20369173)
Sometime in the 70s, someone in Sturmey Archers bad idea department decided to eliminate the nut that holds tension on the cable guide wheel band. They made an extra fold in the soft steel band and drilled and tapped threads into it. These strip very easily. It's possible that the guide wheel is slipping on the frame making cable adjustment impossible.

On a philosophical note, it is very sad to live through and even view in retrospect this sort of pennypinching de-engineering.

paulb_in_bkln 05-31-18 12:04 PM


Originally Posted by PatrickZ (Post 20369730)
These stems were used for three types of upright bars on the Raleigh Sprite 27s (and probably the Record, too). I definitely would not hammer a Sports handlebar in there!

It being steel could you safely spread the clamp? Or maybe not.

68sd 05-31-18 12:44 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18263dffe9.jpg

first day out on my 51 Raleigh that was found in a dumpster

desconhecido 05-31-18 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by 68sd (Post 20369974)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18263dffe9.jpg

first day out on my 51 Raleigh that was found in a dumpster

That is a very interesting bicycle. Fenders look like Raleigh fenders except for the mountings. The little brazed fitting for the shift cable pully is still visible at the top of the seat tube, but a clamp has been installed. Needs a chain -- will work much better. Nice saddle -- is it a survivor, do you think?

We have a 51 step through and it has stainless rims and spokes -- I'm guessing yours does as well.

68sd 05-31-18 02:53 PM

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdb8a74066.jpg
i expect it hasnt been in service for many decades,it was as dry of fluids as any bike ive seen.
it was dropped off in a recycling bin with this 1953 Hercules Eatons Commander.

dweenk 05-31-18 02:53 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20369861)
On a philosophical note, it is very sad to live through and even view in retrospect this sort of pennypinching de-engineering.

I've lived through that twice. The first time was a company that was acquired by KKR - they shut down all projects, broke the company into regional pieces, and sold the pieces to the highest bidder. The second time was after a strike by the union employees. IMO when bean counters get involved, the outcome is seldom satisfactory.

arty dave 05-31-18 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20369885)
It being steel could you safely spread the clamp? Or maybe not.

True - I wouldn't be worried about the steel, but I'm not sure how it would affect the alignment of the clamp bolt. It's only a 1.6mm difference so it should be OK (25.4mm - 23.8mm). Has anyone done this and lived to tell the tale? It is a lovely stem and it's just that bit longer - I think it would look good on the red bike I've posted here that has the gas-mask grips.
I had one of these stems on a Raleigh Sports that I sold some time ago - it did have this smaller stem clamp and the handlebar was a standard north road shape (with the smaller clamp area). I saw one on another Sports for sale here not too long ago, so maybe it was an export thing for a few years? The majority of Sports I see here (Australia) have the regular stem. Cute Boy Horse I like hitting things with hammers, but I think I'll just pry it open :)

clubman 05-31-18 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by 68sd (Post 20369974)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18263dffe9.jpg

first day out on my 51 Raleigh that was found in a dumpster

Lucky dog. That will be a star once cleaned up. Pretty colour.


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20370191)
That is a very interesting bicycle. Fenders look like Raleigh fenders except for the mountings. The little brazed fitting for the shift cable pully is still visible at the top of the seat tube, but a clamp has been installed. Needs a chain -- will work much better. Nice saddle -- is it a survivor, do you think?

We have a 51 step through and it has stainless rims and spokes -- I'm guessing yours does as well.

Raleigh used those mounts on Humbers in the early 50's so they're likely original. Maybe export market.

clubman 05-31-18 05:32 PM


Originally Posted by 68sd (Post 20370221)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdb8a74066.jpg
i expect it hasnt been in service for many decades,it was as dry of fluids as any bike ive seen.
it was dropped off in a recycling bin with this 1953 Hercules Eatons Commander.

I've raved on this one before. Equal to the Raleigh but the left pedal is odd. Is it an alloy Gibson pedal?

Chaser95 05-31-18 05:47 PM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b046fd082.jpg
Another road trip another Sports. AW Hub July 77. Has those @&$(*#^ adjustable brakes. Another barn picture for Paul. Bought this and a red 70s Le Tour Mixte for two Jacksons. Thanks guys for the shifter tips. Had I not been Raleigh chasing I would have tried them out today. Back to work tomorrow.

BigChief 05-31-18 06:31 PM


Originally Posted by 68sd (Post 20369974)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18263dffe9.jpg

first day out on my 51 Raleigh that was found in a dumpster

Nice one!! Dumpster?? Good grief. What a good find. Recycling bin?? I might camp out there sometime. And I thought great finds were getting impossible.

Chaser95 05-31-18 06:36 PM


Originally Posted by Chaser95 (Post 20370479)
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b046fd082.jpg
Another road trip another Sports. AW Hub July 77. Has those @&$(*#^ adjustable brakes. Another barn picture for Paul. Bought this and a red 70s Le Tour Mixte for two Jacksons. Thanks guys for the shifter tips. Had I not been Raleigh chasing I would have tried them out today. Back to work tomorrow.

Correction on the hub date....July 74. Also 21 inch frame. Sorry. Senior moment!

Chaser95 05-31-18 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by 68sd (Post 20369974)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...18263dffe9.jpg

first day out on my 51 Raleigh that was found in a dumpster

Great! Keep checking that dumpster!

BigChief 05-31-18 07:18 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20370191)
That is a very interesting bicycle. Fenders look like Raleigh fenders except for the mountings. The little brazed fitting for the shift cable pully is still visible at the top of the seat tube, but a clamp has been installed. Needs a chain -- will work much better. Nice saddle -- is it a survivor, do you think?

We have a 51 step through and it has stainless rims and spokes -- I'm guessing yours does as well.

Those fenders came on the drop bar version Sports, but that model didn't come with a chainguard. These could be original. They are from the early 50s. You never know with Raleigh.

PatrickZ 05-31-18 08:33 PM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20369885)
It being steel could you safely spread the clamp? Or maybe not.

I haven't tried, but I seem to recall that Sheldon didn't recommend spreading these stems to accept a 25.4 handlebar. Let us know how it works if you try it!

desconhecido 05-31-18 11:12 PM


Originally Posted by PatrickZ (Post 20370676)
I haven't tried, but I seem to recall that Sheldon didn't recommend spreading these stems to accept a 25.4 handlebar. Let us know how it works if you try it!

So, about stretching Raleigh stems made for steel bars to accept 25.4 mm bars. By shear coincidence, and through a rather bizarre process I won't go into, because someone would think I was nuts, and we can't have that again, I unintentionally acquired a Raleigh Sports stem made for their steel bars which someone had attempted to enlarge to 25.4 mm. The pictures show some pretty nasty deformation; cracks and fissures are starting--I would not trust this stem:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...350481b7bb.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...488bc9cee5.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 06-01-18 04:27 AM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20370841)
So, about stretching Raleigh stems made for steel bars to accept 25.4 mm bars. By shear coincidence, and through a rather bizarre process I won't go into, because someone would think I was nuts, and we can't have that again, I unintentionally acquired a Raleigh Sports stem made for their steel bars which someone had attempted to enlarge to 25.4 mm. The pictures show some pretty nasty deformation; cracks and fissures are starting--I would not trust this stem:

This positively answers my question!


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