Also, my numbers are in the Cycling Analytics data base. My numbers are included so that furiousferret can feel better about himself i.e. I am the statistical equivalent of pack fodder.
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I know of one 19ish year old Cat 4 with well north of a 300 watt threshold (he recently did 400 for 20 minutes at ~170 lbs), but he won't be a cat 4 for very long. Or a 3, either.
I'd say a good number of the local cat 1/2s that are 160 lbs+ can do it, but there are also a good number of Cat 2/3s in the 145-165lb range that can't. All the good cat 1s I know can do it easily, and for multiple hours (one did it for four hours a couple of months ago, another just did 325 for 4 hours; pretty big exceptions). So no, I'd say it is most definitely not common in the least, especially in the lower categories. Easily verifiable on Strava. But everyone is faster on the internet... |
Originally Posted by Doge
(Post 21918820)
The poster known as Fuggly (we have not seen in a while)
What happened to Fudgy? |
Fudgy is a big boy, with big power! He's for sure done > 300w for an hour.
|
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Originally Posted by TMonk
(Post 21922816)
Fudgy is a big boy, with big power! He's for sure done > 300w for an hour.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bbd30446d8.png |
Originally Posted by gsteinb
(Post 21922808)
That's not nice!
What happened to Fudgy? |
I believe on a machine in a German lab in the early 70s (I trust that more then than a power meter now) Eddie Merckx did north of 480 for an hour. I got to think being almost 20lbs-40lbs (he was huge as a junior ITT WC) heavier than Eddie Indurain did more on the road, but there are no numbers I know of, just he was big and fast - and could climb.
I expect the PEDs helped a lot for both so maybe they'd be 10%-15% less now? Those sill are big numbers. Look them up. |
480 jfc...
|
Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin
(Post 21922949)
480 jfc...
"In 1975 at a Sporthochschule in Cologne, Germany, professional cyclist Eddy Merckx produced over 0.6 horsepower for 1hr (455 Watts) on a cycling ergometer" His VO2 was 77. Not bad, but at this level it does not really correlate to power. I saw my kid max about 80 (at 15) and power kept going up. The beet root tests found this too. I know "science" has a formula for this, but reality is Eddie was 15 or so VO2 points below what has been recorded and hes still got the highest lab power (that I know of). There is discussion here https://forum.cyclingnews.com/thread...55-watts.7900/ |
455 or 480 that's absolutely nuts. Inside too!
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"This topic is totally unnecessary" And that it is. Everything I've read here is subjective. Too many variables.
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Originally Posted by sewupnut
(Post 21925244)
"This topic is totally unnecessary" And that it is. Everything I've read here is subjective. Too many variables.
|
Originally Posted by sewupnut
(Post 21925244)
"This topic is totally unnecessary" And that it is. Everything I've read here is subjective. Too many variables.
The original topic wasn't really about the subjectivity of if 300w is useful at all in any kind of racing. As winning matters, not what the little gauge says. You could have chosen to click, view, and move on...........but you had to take a dig. Or you could have provided feedback worthy of those 22 years. Everything is subjective? You can see the Zpower results online anytime, listing power, power duration, w/kg, and weight. You can pull up folks you've followed for years on Strava. Shoot, people that coach can pull up their TP or WKO5 data and see what that data looks like and knows what they race in. There's nothing subjective about hard data. What are the variables? If we ignore a fair variable of the measuring device used, it's just the data itself. I'm not sure how Coggan compiled the original "FTP chart of talents" people love to post up, but there had to be some amount of data behind it. Not to mention if there was, we KNOW the numbers of participants in each of the race categories he placed in that chart. So.......no, I don't think it's fair to say it's all subjective and there are too many variables. What's subjective about the commonality of 300w for an hour? It's a yes or no question then applied to a demographic of cyclists. Again, what exactly did you contribute? |
Originally Posted by Branko D
(Post 21921669)
It's rare.
... That's about it. The other 30 or 40 guys I personally know who race either in triathlon or road, can't. A couple of the bigger guys probably could do it and can put put some high numbers in 20-30 minutes, but I don't think I’ve seen them go at it for a full hour and in terms of power to weight (or power to drag even at their height) they're not that special. While a hour at sweetspot is fun, even, you have to really want to hurt yourself to ride at threshold for a full hour. Here is a good example. Mt. Hamilton out of San Jose. Part of the annual Mt. Hamilton RR. It's 18 miles of climbing but has two short descents that will lower your average power. Still, tons of guys over 300 watts for this climb. Not to mention that they still have more than 40 tough miles to the finish. Personally, I looked through my Strava and found where I averaged 300W for 2:30 at age 56. |
I can only speak for myself as I average about 300 Watts, give or take. I have a lot of roll-off being a sprinter and find it gets harder and harder to hold power the closer it gets to an hour. I absolutely loathe Alpe du zwift which I have yet to conquer in an hour. I see 300 Watt averages in the results from competitive Bs on Zwift. On the road, I can usually keep up with the second fastest group ride groups in a large metro area. No clue what race category I'd be competitive in these days. I never had a power meter during my racing days when I had a higher heart rate and 20 pounds lighter. These days I usually enter C events based on my calculated FTP and weigh-in right before events and calibrate often. I'm just under the C/B line but a lot of races are close to an hour and I know I'm not competitive against 3.9s so I stay in the Cs unless I want a challenge. I know there's sandbagging, weight doping, height doping and all kinds of other shenaniganry going on. I've even had a jersey taken by a Zwift Insider bot that was flying through Watopia at super-human speeds. Not sure what they were testing but I wasn't too happy about losing a jersey to a cyborg. Thanks to power meters, I now know I'm best at 15-30 seconds efforts than longer efforts (1757 - 5 second, 708 - 1 minute, 426 - 5 minute, 346 - 20 minute). Being a heavier rider In Zwift, I just try to stay off the front and then work hard to stay in over the steeper hills. My W/kg are noticeably lower than those around me on the flats but my Wattage is slightly to considerably higher, depending on the gradient. On steeper gradients I have to match W/k exactly. Trying to lose weight. If I got down to my college weight with my current power I'd be at the top end of the Bs. Looking at the chart that was posted earlier makes me want to cry inside to compare my Wattage with W/kg, but it is what is until I can get down to fighting weight again. Below is a screen shot from Zwift Power.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...79ef83730b.jpg |
Originally Posted by nslckevin
(Post 21925327)
Personally, I looked through my Strava and found where I averaged 300W for 2:30 at age 56. |
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
(Post 21925735)
At that altitude, was there significant altitude-induced power loss happening over that last hour plus?
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I guess people are unique. My body simply would not ever have the combination of power that high and a weight high enough to bring the w/kg down that much. I mean, I would have to eat like a madman. Like, eat more than I'm even willing to eat just for fun. Even then, the hours riding at the power necessary to get to that level of power..........that's even more calories in.
I think that disconnect is why it's hard for me to comprehend. I follow a coworker on Zwift from Denmark. Dude was a Danish national roadie or something at some point earlier in their life. But now they're quite a bit larger as they've grown older. They'll average into the 300's up Alpe du Zwift but I'll only put out like 250w and have a faster time by a couple minutes. So I do not question their power abilities at all. Dude has done nearly 400w for 20min in the last year at some point. If I put out power like that all the time, my body would just disappear. Maybe closer to a time trial race I should try to put on a few kg extra (just enough to still fit the skinsuit). |
This is absolutely weight-dependant. I am 56 years old and my weight varies from 195 lbs (88kg - cut) to 225 lbs (102kg). Most of time 205-210. Last summer (I live in cold Quebec Canada so winter riding is at 8mph on a fatbike) I was doing intervals 4 x 15 min between 330 and 340 W mesured on calibrated Garmin Vector3. And I did a 3h45 ride at 298 Normalized Power. And reached 1695 W on a sprint. And about 10/15 years ago, while doing Whiteface Hillclimb race under 55 min, I was evaluated doing the effort around 380W avg for my weight. So those numbers (300 W) are real for average folks like me. That said I am not a racer and my point is I would still get dropped like a rock if I was (wether in real world or Swift) because of my weight ... So is weight an advantage or disadvantage for reaching cycling performance ?
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
(Post 21925320)
What exactly did you contribute to the topic? You claimed in a 33 forum topic way way back to have been in your 22nd year racing.
The original topic wasn't really about the subjectivity of if 300w is useful at all in any kind of racing. As winning matters, not what the little gauge says. You could have chosen to click, view, and move on...........but you had to take a dig. Or you could have provided feedback worthy of those 22 years. Everything is subjective? You can see the Zpower results online anytime, listing power, power duration, w/kg, and weight. You can pull up folks you've followed for years on Strava. Shoot, people that coach can pull up their TP or WKO5 data and see what that data looks like and knows what they race in. There's nothing subjective about hard data. What are the variables? If we ignore a fair variable of the measuring device used, it's just the data itself. I'm not sure how Coggan compiled the original "FTP chart of talents" people love to post up, but there had to be some amount of data behind it. Not to mention if there was, we KNOW the numbers of participants in each of the race categories he placed in that chart. So.......no, I don't think it's fair to say it's all subjective and there are too many variables. What's subjective about the commonality of 300w for an hour? It's a yes or no question then applied to a demographic of cyclists. Again, what exactly did you contribute? |
Originally Posted by SpinnerPC
(Post 21926438)
And about 10/15 years ago, while doing Whiteface Hillclimb race under 55 min,
I was there! Though 55 minutes then isn't 55 minutes now, since they moved the start to the ski resort. |
Originally Posted by gsteinb
(Post 21926567)
I was there! Though 55 minutes then isn't 55 minutes now, since they moved the start to the ski resort.
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Originally Posted by sewupnut
(Post 21926501)
The only htings that are important to me are trends I see from calories burned on rides and power generated on my trainer. The accuracy is not important as long as the graph goes up.
Accuracy is vitally important. |
Originally Posted by rubiksoval
(Post 21926753)
The accuracy isn't important? What happens when you use a powermeter outside? Or get a new trainer? Just resign yourself to starting all over with the data?
Accuracy is vitally important. |
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