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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

HPL 10-08-19 12:01 AM

1940's (?) Ladies Sports Tourist (?) Update
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have gotten back to check on my parts for this bike and have an early SA 3 Speed shifter with the long lever and "bottom" of the bar mounting (graphics inverted, black w/silver lettering), and no indicator window. I believe this is a GC3 (GC4 for a 4 speed, GC2 made later ?) model shifter made in '48 and earlier which would help in dating this frame from the early to mid 40's if my thinking is correct. I originally thought it had a quadrant shifter, but all components seem to be of like vintage, original cable stop, etc. Later shifters I have seen have a shorter lever and have different graphics; black or red lettering on silver background, or 3/4 speed models with silver lettering and black ground (similar to mine but used for 4 speed also, no indicator window). If someone has a definite range of years for this particular shifter please inform me. Thanks all!

gster 10-08-19 04:14 AM

1955 Humber Update

I fitted the new Kenda K23 tires yesterday and

they went on pretty much by hand...


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...64c8407e4d.jpg
I've re positioned the trigger and levers to match the illustration from the catalogue.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...65cd43beb4.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...55d4037ad7.jpg
The only remaining issue is the shifting...
despite a new cable and swapping out different triggers it
was not smooth.
I had the hub apart yesterday and despite the age, there were no signs
of wear.
The innards were pretty gummed up.
It looked as if some grease may have been used at some point.
The only remaining suspect in this, is the cable housing as it
feels that the cable is binding between the stop and the trigger.
I've also ordered some more K23 tires from the same supplier.
OT
I'm shifting the boat up to Bracebridge today for the winter.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...10267757ec.jpg
I've done as much work as possible here and will finish it
off in the spring.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...697806e09a.jpg

BigChief 10-08-19 04:35 AM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21154593)
I have gotten back to check on my parts for this bike and have an early SA 3 Speed shifter with the long lever and "bottom" of the bar mounting (graphics inverted, black w/silver lettering), and no indicator window. I believe this is a GC3 (GC4 for a 4 speed, GC2 made later ?) model shifter made in '48 and earlier which would help in dating this frame from the early to mid 40's if my thinking is correct. I originally thought it had a quadrant shifter, but all components seem to be of like vintage, original cable stop, etc. Later shifters I have seen have a shorter lever and have different graphics; black or red lettering on silver background, or 3/4 speed models with silver lettering and black ground (similar to mine but used for 4 speed also, no indicator window). If someone has a definite range of years for this particular shifter please inform me. Thanks all!

This is the first style "flick" trigger first introduced in 1938. Lucky you have the original cable because these use a lolly pop style cable end that would have to be custom made. Here's an ad from The Bicycle Dec. 21 1949. This shows the 3 or 4 speed window shifter with the 1950s design face plate. There were two previous 3 or 4 speed face plates without the window that must have lasted a year or two, so we can assume yours dates to 1938-1947 or so. Be careful not to loose that external spring. The "up side down" face plates lasted until around 1964. Here's a helpful note from Sturmey Archer concerning the mounting of their Flick shifters.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1da667cc1e.jpg

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...356610dc13.jpg

rhenning 10-08-19 03:20 PM

Maybe 15th work week. Roger

paulb_in_bkln 10-08-19 07:09 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21154661)
1955 Humber Update

I fitted the new Kenda K23 tires yesterday and

they went on pretty much by hand...



I've re positioned the trigger and levers to match the illustration from the catalogue.


The only remaining issue is the shifting...
despite a new cable and swapping out different triggers it
was not smooth.
I had the hub apart yesterday and despite the age, there were no signs
of wear.
The innards were pretty gummed up.
It looked as if some grease may have been used at some point.
The only remaining suspect in this, is the cable housing as it
feels that the cable is binding between the stop and the trigger.
I've also ordered some more K23 tires from the same supplier.
OT
I'm shifting the boat up to Bracebridge today for the winter.

I've done as much work as possible here and will finish it
off in the spring.

Feeling grateful to whoever thought of taping the bars all the way round. Or was bar tape scarce in Britain?

TXsailor 10-09-19 02:07 AM

I know its not English...
 
I was told that a bike I found at a local thrift store would be of interest to this group. Here are some pictures. All I have done so far is put some air in the tires. I have determined its a 1961 model. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...93f520ae18.jpg
1961 Schwinn Racer
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5111ecdefc.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11f958e7dc.jpg

gster 10-09-19 04:58 AM


Originally Posted by TXsailor (Post 21156098)
I was told that a bike I found at a local thrift store would be of interest to this group. Here are some pictures. All I have done so far is put some air in the tires. I have determined its a 1961 model. https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...93f520ae18.jpg
1961 Schwinn Racer
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5111ecdefc.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11f958e7dc.jpg

Good find and a tall bike as well.

BigChief 10-09-19 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by TXsailor (Post 21156098)
I was told that a bike I found at a local thrift store would be of interest to this group. Here are some pictures. All I have done so far is put some air in the tires. I have determined its a 1961 model. 1961 Schwinn Racer

Nice that it has a taller frame and the old style shark fin front mudguard. I've never seen a retail bike shop badge in place of the Schwinn head badge before.

HPL 10-09-19 10:59 AM

3 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21154677)
This is the first style "flick" trigger first introduced in 1938. Lucky you have the original cable because these use a lolly pop style cable end that would have to be custom made. Here's an ad from The Bicycle Dec. 21 1949. This shows the 3 or 4 speed window shifter with the 1950s design face plate. There were two previous 3 or 4 speed face plates without the window that must have lasted a year or two, so we can assume yours dates to 1938-1947 or so. Be careful not to loose that external spring. The "up side down" face plates lasted until around 1964. Here's a helpfully note from Sturmey Archer concerning the mounting of their Flick shifters.

Thank you for the continued info. Great factory note regarding shifter mounting!
I have the "original" headlight that came with the Front "DYNOHUB" bike. I don't know if this design was made for a limited period helping to further date the bike. I have not opened it or tested it electrically. "Release button" at bottom is not freeing anything at present. Rear knob (beam focus?) is not readily turning nor is the switch; both have limited movement with light force applied. No Lucas markings, "PATENT DYNOHUB ENGLAND" on the switch only. Was this light introduced at the same time as the DYNOHUB itself or a year or two later as a replacement; and is it specifically made for use the DYNOHUB only?

gster 10-09-19 12:33 PM

Club Bikes Galore!
A neighbour friend came over today and asked if I'd be interested in looking at his
1956 Norman that he had purchased new.
I said I was..
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eaebce321f.jpg
He remembers paying $72.00 for it at the time at Mcbrides Cycle on Queen Street.
Shortly after he fitted an aftermarket 3 cog hub and a derailleur to make a 9 speed.
Or as he called it "French gears".
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f7e0bea4f3.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9cad0d2c10.jpg
A 3 speed hub /Dyno.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b356c6fe1.jpg
Nice trigger and the bike has EA1 rims as well.
He's not willing to part with it but says he will scan the original bill of sale and send me a copy.
The bike saw a lot of use before being stored away.
A road trip to from Toronto to Buffalo and back.
The original leather saddle is gone as well as the
front brakes. It was crashed at some point and the stem
is also a bit twisted.
An interesting machine with an equally interesting back story.

The derailleur looks to be a Cyclo Standard
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...272776882e.jpg


From Disraeili Gears:

"The Cyclo Standard was the definitive touring derailleur for many decades. It started life as the French 1923 ‘Le Cyclo’, designed and manufactured by Albert Raimond. The design of the mechanism was said to have been inspired by machine guns that Raimond examined during the First World War. In 1932 the British Cyclo Gear Company was established by Raimond and Louis Camillis, and the Cyclo Standard was its first product.

The Standard mounts under the chainstay and is controlled by two cables. The cables rotate a sleeve with a helical groove in it on a shaft with a pin sticking into the groove. One cable pulls the sleeve one way, the other pulls it the other way. As the sleeve rotates the helix drives the sleeve along the shaft. The pulley cage is attached to the sleeve, with the top pulley concentric with the shaft. Chain tension is provided by a spring attached to the eye on the arm that is just above the guide pulley. The other end of the spring is attached to a clamp on the chainstay just behind the bottom bracket.

The Cyclo Standard was heavy and was fiddly to set up, but once properly installed, it was strong and reliable. It can make a decent claim to being the first derailleur that was a practical, commercial, mass-produced product.

You saw these derailleurs in use on tandems in the UK well into the 1970s."

Cyclo Standard derailleur
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...63ddfa3a4b.jpg
He dropped by a bit later with some paper work.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...08b21903e.jpeg
The original bill of sale and the cheque used to pay for it.
McBride's Cycle signed by Percy McBride.
McBride's went on to be a major motorcycle dealer here in Toronto.
$72.50 would be worth $684.00 today...
23" Norman Gents Road Racer
Green metallic with white fenders
They charged an extra $5.00 for a kickstand and an electric bell
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...20d892f08.jpeg
A letter from the insurance company covering the value of a previous bike stolen
from the front porch. This amount went towards the Norman.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6691386fc.jpeg
And bills for two more Raleighs bought in 1972.
A Ladies Superbe for his wife and
a Twenty for his Mother in Law.
Both bikes in the shed with the Norman.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...550bef4db2.jpg

clubman 10-09-19 03:12 PM

It's nice to see a Birmingham made bike. Most of what we see here are Lentons, Clubmans Pathfinders etc as far as the mass made bikes are concerned.

gster 10-10-19 06:20 AM

Deal of the Day
posted today on Kijiji, Toronto
1970 Raleigh/Glider Chopper
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2e9b7ca8c.jpg
Pedals not included and some broken spokes...
Only $1795.00 (CDN)
That's only $1350.00 US!

Ballenxj 10-10-19 07:15 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21157703)
Deal of the Day
posted today on Kijiji, Toronto
1970 Raleigh/Glider Chopper
<--Picture-->
Pedals not included and some broken spokes...
Only $1795.00 (CDN)
That's only $1350.00 US!

Hmm, pedals not included, some broken spokes, and only $1350. U.S.? What a BARGAIN! :eek:

BigChief 10-10-19 04:23 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21156619)
Thank you for the continued info. Great factory note regarding shifter mounting!
I have the "original" headlight that came with the Front "DYNOHUB" bike. I don't know if this design was made for a limited period helping to further date the bike. I have not opened it or tested it electrically. "Release button" at bottom is not freeing anything at present. Rear knob (beam focus?) is not readily turning nor is the switch; both have limited movement with light force applied. No Lucas markings, "PATENT DYNOHUB ENGLAND" on the switch only. Was this light introduced at the same time as the DYNOHUB itself or a year or two later as a replacement; and is it specifically made for use the DYNOHUB only?

Thanks for posting these. Now I have another reference. This is an earlier version than the dyno headlamp on my 51 Rudge. Here's my 51. It has a 3 position switch at the bottom of the lamp. The center position is off, to the left connects the Dyno hub and the right would connect the battery pack if I had one. The contacts are inside the lamp shell and the adjustment at the back looks somewhat different. I had to replace the wire from the bulb holder on mine. I'm using Nicelite LED bulbs.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a241623079.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35b93986be.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9908f5e130.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4b7274790d.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...706535f1c6.jpg

52telecaster 10-10-19 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21157000)
It's nice to see a Birmingham made bike. Most of what we see here are Lentons, Clubmans Pathfinders etc as far as the mass made bikes are concerned.

Awesome!

HPL 10-10-19 05:50 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21158641)
Thanks for posting these. Now I have another reference. This is an earlier version than the dyno headlamp on my 51 Rudge. Here's my 51. It has a 3 position switch at the bottom of the lamp. The center position is off, to the left connects the Dyno hub and the right would connect the battery pack if I had one. The contacts are inside the lamp shell and the adjustment at the back looks somewhat different. I had to replace the wire from the bulb holder on mine. I'm using Nicelite LED bulbs.

I have accessed the internals: knurled rear knob is for beam adjustment and now turns fine; 2 position on/off switch can be turned either CW or CCW to make or break the circuit. Wire insulation has completely deteriorated. Headlight probably not used more than once or twice based upon the lack of wear showing on the switch contacts and contact board; no grooving and barely marked, possibly by myself from freeing up the switch knob. I will take some internal photos for better means of reference. Are the LED bulbs a direct fit; no alterations, etc?

clubman 10-10-19 06:16 PM

Great pic, all of it!


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21158641)


Ged117 10-10-19 06:34 PM

Heading home for Canadian Thanksgiving tomorrow, and on the way I'm picking up this '72 step-through Sports for my girlfriend. Current owner is a collector of old British three-speeds. I'm curious to see his other bikes. The bike is going to receive the same treatment its older, distinguished uncle went through last winter. I've got a '79 AW hub to practice rebuilds on before I lock this one in the vise. Fresh bearings, grease, cables, and tires all around. Likely Schwalbe white-walls to match the blue and a black B67 new or a good condition B72 if I can find one to save some money (and make it more period correct). More photos of as-is condition once I've got it under some sunlight.

https://scontent.fybz1-1.fna.fbcdn.n...b1&oe=5E2F3F85

clubman 10-10-19 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21157703)
Deal of the Day
posted today on Kijiji, Toronto
1970 Raleigh/Glider Chopper
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e2e9b7ca8c.jpg
Pedals not included and some broken spokes...
Only $1795.00 (CDN)
That's only $1350.00 US!

Love it. Mine was Orange.

BigChief 10-10-19 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by HPL (Post 21158736)
I have accessed the internals: knurled rear knob is for beam adjustment and now turns fine; 2 position on/off switch can be turned either CW or CCW to make or break the circuit. Wire insulation has completely deteriorated. Headlight probably not used more than once or twice based upon the lack of wear showing on the switch contacts and contact board; no grooving and barely marked, possibly by myself from freeing up the switch knob. I will take some internal photos for better means of reference. Are the LED bulbs a direct fit; no alterations, etc?

Yes, direct fit. No modification. The strobe effect at slow speeds is more pronounced with the LED bulb than with a filament bulb, but it is brighter and evens out at normal riding speeds. The tail light LED produces a bright red light on it's own, so even if the red lens is faded you still have a brilliant red glow. The Nicelite website claims a limiter is necessary with their LED bulbs, however I have been using their LED lights for a whole season without one and no burnouts. Maybe I'm just a slow rider. They also sell a capacitor you can place in the circuit to smooth out the strobe effect, but I don't consider it a problem. Here's the tail light from my Rudge
NICELITE SUPER LED LIGHT BULBS

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...de9229626f.jpg

gster 10-11-19 05:40 AM

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9139fa1f5b.jpg
One of each, please.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...otorsport.html

paulb_in_bkln 10-11-19 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 21158810)
Heading home for Canadian Thanksgiving tomorrow, and on the way I'm picking up this '72 step-through Sports for my girlfriend. Current owner is a collector of old British three-speeds. I'm curious to see his other bikes. The bike is going to receive the same treatment its older, distinguished uncle went through last winter. I've got a '79 AW hub to practice rebuilds on before I lock this one in the vise. Fresh bearings, grease, cables, and tires all around. Likely Schwalbe white-walls to match the blue and a black B67 new or a good condition B72 if I can find one to save some money (and make it more period correct). More photos of as-is condition once I've got it under some sunlight.

I see it's got one of the 3 mm washers between the left side axle nut and frame. Same on the right side? I wish washers to fit these axles were easier to find.

3speedslow 10-11-19 06:32 PM

@gster

Your runabout is awesome! You do nice work.

gster 10-11-19 08:39 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 21160300)
@gster

Your runabout is awesome! You do nice work.

Thank you.
Research tells me that very few of these "kit" boats survive due to
a number of reasons;
-poor workmanship
-poor glue
-poor filler
This one seems to have spent most
of it's life stored in a shed.
All of the old filler on the hull was picked out and replaced
with modern epoxy filler.
We will see.....

clubman 10-11-19 08:54 PM

Fixing those deficiencies brings that boat up to Muskokas 'Lake of Bays' standards. Very envious.

My wife and I were on just such a mahogany runabout when Elizabeth felt sick. I asked whether it was the margarita she'd had earlier and she gave me that look ...you know, the one that sends you immediately to the pharmacy for the pregnancy test? Yup, child #2 at 40 years old.


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