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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

WGB 07-08-22 06:16 AM

Does anyone know where I can get a can of glue, Continental, Vittoria, don't care which? I'm seeing cans out of stock everywhere. I only see the little tubes and the littles tubes are selling for $20+!

smontanaro 07-08-22 06:24 AM

WGB I was just thinking it was time to get some more. :( I haven't looked around much. I do see tubular tape available on Amazon. Maybe it's time to try that...

Edit: Just found some Mastik One on eBay.

Classtime 07-08-22 06:52 AM

https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...tal-rim-cement

While we wait for more Mastic?
But it is scary that the Vittoria site is calling Mastic “ old school”.

WGB 07-08-22 11:13 AM

Thank you to @smontanaro as I now have some glue (or will by late next week....:D)

jimmuller 07-09-22 10:17 AM

It's been a while since I had fuss with my tires. These days I just ride 'em. From today:

https://theworld.com/~muller/pics/Ri...2/IceCream.jpg

The tires are Veloflex Criteriums, unless my memory is tottaly uot to lunhc, whihc is alyaws poosible.

79pmooney 07-11-22 03:50 PM

What is considered the best sealant for tubbies? I went back 5 pages and saw Stan's and Orange. Stan's seems to get good reviews in this thread.

My first sewup wheel, GP4 and 28c Corsa Control G+ is going fully flat between pump ups when I'd expect about 10 psi a night loss. Haven't spent the time to diagnose it yet. I may have damaged the valve and tiny debris is a life's curse of my riding territories. I've also thought that tools to carry sealant and use on the road might be both smart and allow riding with just one spare and still be pretty certain to be able to get myself home. So far, my life's been sealant free so I have no background here.

Also want to put together a sewup patch kit for the road. Waxed thread; perhaps the thinnest of the sail threads or perhaps pre-waxed carpet thread (pre-waxed by me), an appropriate sailmakers needle, thimble, patches (is there a preferred brand or type?), REMA cement, boot material, some carpet glue in a small tube (how to get it in there might occupy my in-bed thoughts for some nights), perhaps a few inches of basetape. Is there anything else I should carry?

I used to just buy those orange sewup patch kits and change out a couple of the items to ones I liked better. I remember breaking it out to fix my second flat of the day a long ways from home after riding out to the Longjo Memorial Criterium in Fitchburg, coming from Boston. Found a nice, comfortable spot on a grassy hillside for the work, did a good job and rode the miles home just fine. Cannot even find a mention of those kits now in my web searches.

DiabloScott 07-11-22 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22571386)
What is considered the best sealant for tubbies? I went back 5 pages and saw Stan's and Orange. Stan's seems to get good reviews in this thread.

I used to just buy those orange sewup patch kits and change out a couple of the items to ones I liked better.

Caffe Latex is another sealant with good reviews.
And Velox tubular patching kits are still available.

Aardwolf 07-12-22 02:14 AM

I've only tried sealant recently: Got a flat in a Vittoria Rubino after only 86 miles from a 2mm piece of glass and had to wheel it home (but only 3 miles).
Did some research and tried Orange Seal, sealed in 2 seconds and the tyre has done another 300 miles since with no problems.

Here's some testing from 2014:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_1_4147.html
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/...rt_2_4155.html

JohnDThompson 07-12-22 08:17 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 22571386)
What is considered the best sealant for tubbies? I went back 5 pages and saw Stan's and Orange. Stan's seems to get good reviews in this thread.

I've had mixed success with Stan's. It seems to seal well enough to get me home, but doesn't always result in a permanent fix. I haven't tried Orange. Velox makes an inflator/sealant combo that may obviate the need for a CO2 cartridge. I bought one, but haven't had the opportunity to use it yet. Not in any hurry, either.

genejockey 07-19-22 10:48 AM

Last year, I got my first set of tubular wheels. I went cheap on tires, buying a pair of 22mm Conti Giros that were on sale. I used tape to glue them to the rims, and they've been fine. As I understand it, Giros, being cheap, don't really give you all the suppleness of the best tubulars. So, when I saw 23mm Vittoria Corsa Speeds on sale for about $30 each, I bought a pair. I realize they're basically racing tires, but as I say - $30!

So this weekend, I thought I'd take the Giros off and get the rims ready for the Corsas. I let all the air out, but I could not budge the tires. I suspect there's a trick to getting the first little bit loose from the rim, and after that you can probably pull them off more easily, but I don't know that trick! I also realized how lucky I'd been not to get a flat in the 500 miles I've ridden them, because I'd have had a hell of a time taking them off the rim to put on the spare!

Any hints, tips, tricks? Or is it just all brute force?

DiabloScott 07-19-22 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22579862)
Any hints, tips, tricks? Or is it just all brute force?

It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).
2. Tape OR glue, leave a bare spot opposite the valve where it'll be easier to get started.
3. Thin tire iron helps a lot; both getting started and all the way around - steel works better than a Pedro's type.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2283dc6d0a.jpg

genejockey 07-19-22 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22579888)
It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).

I confess I'd always been a little anxious riding them - fear of rolling them off the rim. After a couple minutes trying unsuccessfully to peel one of them off, I feel MUCH better about them!

But I still really want to try the Corsa Speeds!!!

smontanaro 07-19-22 01:16 PM

genejockey Brute force works. I've yet to need to resort to tire irons too remove a tubular tire. As you've seen, adhesion to the edges goes a long way to minimizing the chance they roll off the rim.

Like DiabloScott I'm a glue sniffer user. My only experience with tape has been trying to remove it. :troll: I use paste/flux/welding brushes to apply the glue. With just a little experimentation you will quickly figure out the (light) pressure necessary to get the brush to fan out to the edges of the base tape or rim. Once installed, I pump the tire up to around 110psi to insure complete contact (edges and center).

DiabloScott 07-19-22 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22579986)
I confess I'd always been a little anxious riding them - fear of rolling them off the rim. After a couple minutes trying unsuccessfully to peel one of them off, I feel MUCH better about them!

New tubular guys usually hear a story about a rolled tire, and then read some article on how to glue tires, and then they use the "6-corner criterium in August" criteria, and then when it comes time to change one they have to cut it open and rip it off with a vice grip.
The tire ought to be damn hard, but not impossible, to get off. That's the sweet spot you need to find with experience.

I authorize buying the Corsa Speeds.

genejockey 07-19-22 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22580297)
New tubular guys usually hear a story about a rolled tire, and then read some article on how to glue tires, and then they use the "6-corner criterium in August" criteria, and then when it comes time to change one they have to cut it open and rip it off with a vice grip.
The tire ought to be damn hard, but not impossible, to get off. That's the sweet spot you need to find with experience.

I authorize buying the Corsa Speeds.

That's good, because I bought them a month ago.

HM70 07-20-22 05:32 PM

Yup! Only time I ever had a tubular rolled was at the registration table before a criterium. Wished he could be with me the next time I had a flat.

SJX426 07-21-22 04:52 AM

I typically leave a bare spot opposite the valve. The result is a "ticking" sound as the glue next to the spot separates then bonds. this can happen for a few miles before it settles down. The last time I applied glue on the tire in that spot and not the rim. A bit better.
My thumbs object to much use anymore so a tire is the assist in removal. Thanks @DiabloScott for the reference for a thin one. Amazon.com : Tragoods Premium Bicycle Tire Lever Tyre Spoon Iron Changing Tool, Bike Tire Levers Premium Stainless Steel Levers to Repair Bike Tube, Best Tire Changing Tool, Set of 3 : Sports & Outdoors

Came back after reading the reviews. Not sure this item is what you would like. I have three different sets of which none are the best for tubulars. They include metal and plastic. The key is to get under the tire far enough to leverage it off the rim which is a challenge of overcoming the glued area.

Classtime 07-21-22 07:58 AM

I’ve seen guys use a single edge razor blade to remove a taped tubular tire🤔 if you can get those Giros off without destroying them, they will be good as a spare for the more delicate Corsas.

DiabloScott 07-21-22 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22582016)

Came back after reading the reviews. Not sure this item is what you would like. I have three different sets of which none are the best for tubulars. They include metal and plastic. The key is to get under the tire far enough to leverage it off the rim which is a challenge of overcoming the glued area.

Right, unlike a clincher where you just need to get under the bead, with a tubular you need to get the whole spoon underneath the tire and out the other side. Then you pry it up and wiggle around. I didn't see bad reviews there except for being very smooth around the edges.

Robvolz 08-05-22 07:18 PM

Last night while riding through the park, a gunshot rang out.

no, it did not. It was a 10-year-old tubular that blew out a side wall in the most spectacular way.

I watched two YouTube videos, both of them sounded like changing your tire was a three or four day process. I scoffed.

I started with a glue I had on hand. Tubasti, which is much more like rubber cement. Not having a paintbrush, I decided to spread it with my rubber gloved hand. Dumb idea. It basically adhered to my rubber glove.

since I have bottles of goof off, I took the glove off and just use my bare finger. It worked great. I felt like finger painting in preschool. And when I was done, a simple rubbing my hands together all of the glue balled up into a natural rubber eraser.

That soon ran out so I ran to the store to get some Vittoria Mastic’ One.

certainly not the same properties. It was goopy. And now, four hours later I still have residue on my fingers and can’t seem to get it off even though I’ve already used magic eraser and green scrubby pads.

I put a coat on the rim, I put a coat on the tire. After a couple hours of them being outside in 85° heat, I put another coat on the tire and put it in its place. Yes, I did get stuff on the side wall. I am frightened to use any chemicals to remove it lest I weaken the molecular make up of the tire so I will live with my mistakes.

The front tire is bound to blow as well at some point. So I am pre-gluing my other new tire, wrapping it in Italian newspaper, and using a Campagnolo toe clip strap to carry it under my seat.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f39dd751.jpeg
All in all, I prefer the top one.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8e741635.jpeg
They (yes, they) say this is the most puncture resistant sew-up out there

pastorbobnlnh 08-06-22 07:30 AM

Robvolz , I've been running Rallys on one of my bikes and been pleased with the performance. Are they as nice as $100 Vittorias? Of course not--- but a significant improvement over mid-range clinchers. :D

Wildwood 08-07-22 07:56 PM

With all the bikes I'm running I'm not afraid to confess a soft spot for Rally tires. The cotton casing gives a nice damped ride, imo. A new set going on a touring Rickert.

My only current comment is that I finished the last jar of mastic and converted to tubular tape lover. Having finished 4 tires with Jantex tape, what tape should I buy for the next builds??

Classtime 08-07-22 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 22602401)
My only current comment is that I finished the last jar of mastic and converted to tubular tape lover. Having finished 4 tires with Jantex tape, what tape should I buy for the next builds??

Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

79pmooney 08-07-22 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22579888)
It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).
2. Tape OR glue, leave a bare spot opposite the valve where it'll be easier to get started.
3. Thin tire iron helps a lot; both getting started and all the way around - steel works better than a Pedro's type.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2283dc6d0a.jpg

I just ordered the Sunlite equivalent from Bike Berry. (I try to avoid Amazon and will happily spend a buck or two more to have my money go elsewhere.) I actually have one sweet steel spoon lever from a distant millennium somewhere. Thanks for this tip and the no-glue at the rim seam trick. (I heard that also back in that distant past but never did it.)

Now I need to get spokes, build wheels and get sweet tubbies on the Pro Miyata I just set up. (What a ride! My Mooney's main triangle exactly! The rest slightly more spread out than the Fuji Pro I raced and loved but now I've got the stem and reach I should have had back then. Circa 1990, so I'm told. The heyday of steel racing bikes and it shows every ride. And suckers me into riding harder! Yes, true race bikes are faster. But it's not anything you can measure!)

So I need to find those hen's teeth, 302mm butted whatever/1.5/whatever DT? Sapim? in silver. Spent many hours getting nowhere a few weeks ago. A local shop can cut me black Sapims. Did a wheel for me but black does zero for my tastes. (For silver hubs and greybrown GP4s and silver 330s.)

79pmooney 08-07-22 11:40 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22602517)
Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

Couldn't you do Diablo Scott's trick of deleting one section between spoke holes at the rim seam? (Make mess of the scissors but could come in very handy in the field.) Or do you risk integrity cutting the tape so it no longer is completely stuck to itself? Disclaimer - I haven't used tape since Jantex in the mid '70s. Rolled a tire on a hot day. Next ride was on glue and I never looked back. But I hear the new stuff is much better.

Wildwood 08-08-22 12:25 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22602517)
Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

No.
But I was an over-gluer, and managed 2 during rides in last few years.

What do I not know, and hope never to suffer?

obuckler 08-08-22 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 22602569)
……snip……

What do I not know, and hope never to suffer?

What I know is as a tubular noob who started out with tape, the first time I had to change a tire I realized I could never do this on the road and that it took forever in the garage. So flats on the road would mean one of three choices to get home: 1) trying usually temporary or ineffective sealant which also precludes ever patching that tube later, 2) a walk, or 3) an extraction by special forces (Uber or preferably my wonderful wife).

pastorbobnlnh 08-08-22 06:10 AM

@Wildwood I'm now a devotee of Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape. I like it that it comes in shop size rolls.

I've tried gluing, Tufo and Vittoria tapes. I recently had a broken spoke mishap with a wheel running a Rally with the Effetto tape. Obviously, I had to remove the Rally and tape to complete the repair. The tire was challenging, but removable. If I had been on a ride, I could have used the left behind tape to mount the spare for the ride home. The tape took work to remove, but came off cleanly and rim was ready for new tape and a tire with no other prep.

In my recent move I came across a set of wheels I had forgotten about. IIRC they were my last pair of glued tubulars. What a mess! And after climate-controlled storage for 4-5 years, the glue and tires seem to be seperating. My taped wheels look ready to ride.

Of course, YMMV. :D

DiabloScott 08-08-22 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 22602633)
What I know is as a tubular noob who started out with tape, the first time I had to change a tire I realized I could never do this on the road and that it took forever in the garage. So flats on the road would mean one of three choices to get home: 1) trying usually temporary or ineffective sealant which also precludes ever patching that tube later, 2) a walk, or 3) an extraction by special forces (Uber or preferably my wonderful wife).

I've never used tape, but this is a common complaint - it just has too much grip - very difficult to change a tire in the best of situations, damn near impossible to do it on the road.
If you're using tape because it's easier and cleaner, you give up easy changes on the road... your choice.
But if you're using tape because you don't think glue is strong enough, you've heard too many rolled tire stories from folks who got in a hurry or didn't know what they were doing at all.

CV-6 08-08-22 09:58 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22602875)
I've never used tape, but this is a common complaint - it just has too much grip - very difficult to change a tire in the best of situations, damn near impossible to do it on the road.
If you're using tape because it's easier and cleaner, you give up easy changes on the road... your choice.
But if you're using tape because you don't think glue is strong enough, you've heard too many rolled tire stories from folks who got in a hurry or didn't know what they were doing at all.

I use tape and twice have changed tires on the road. The first time, I did not leave a blank spot of tape opposite the valve and did struggle to get the tire off. Funny part there. A kind soul stopped to help, saw the tubular, and promptly told me he could not help. Second time I had left a blank. It was less difficult to remove. You only need a starting point to get the tire removed. My technique is to slide a tire iron under the tire at the blank and then slide it along the rim to the point I can roll the tire to peel it off.

Once I learned, I find tape tire changes are as easy as glued.


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