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In order to understand why the Sturmey Archer hub was so successful, you have to understand the state of derailers prior to WW2. Which is to say that they really weren't, and the best of them only had 3 speeds that were fairly close ratio. In comparison the Sturmey Archer hub had a wider range and certainly a lot less fiddling to switch the gear while in motion, plus it was a whole lot more reliable.
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Originally Posted by Velognome
(Post 15462544)
There were also more specific machines like this Sun Manx TT with a shortened wheelbase note the fenders, bell and quadrant shifter for a 3 speed IGH |
Originally Posted by Salubrious
(Post 15462624)
In order to understand why the Sturmey Archer hub was so successful, you have to understand the state of derailers prior to WW2. Which is to say that they really weren't, and the best of them only had 3 speeds that were fairly close ratio. In comparison the Sturmey Archer hub had a wider range and certainly a lot less fiddling to switch the gear while in motion, plus it was a whole lot more reliable.
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Yes, IGHs are by no means done. I've been building bikes to audition them for decades. Sram makes a nice 7-speed hub (spins well and has a nice shifter); the 8-speed Shimano Alfine is nice (get the twist grip shifter), The Alfine 11-speed is amazing (and as good as it is, their shifter is a bad joke) as is the 14-speed Rolhoff (which has the best shifter ever made), which I have on a mountain bike. They all needed some break-in to really perform.
After promising myself I would not mess with derailers again, I do have some bikes that use them. They're OK, but for shear ridability I prefer the IGHs. Today I rode my Superbe to work- the salt is gone off of the streets finally. I still need to change the rear sprocket, but it was a nice ride with a certain charm. It rolls nicely and is reasonably comfortable (I have an aged Brooks B72 on it, which needs attention). I've rebuilt the wheels with Sun CR18s and found an alloy seatpost on ebay, but its stock otherwise. At lunch I parked in on the sidewalk in front of the restaurant and used the fork lock to keep it from wandering away. |
The SRAM 7-speed has a nice shifter?
It's a 1000-mile shifter in my experience. After 1000 miles you need to replace it, the cable, and the clickbox as a unit as the twistgrip is wore out -unless you are the type that never shifts gears. The hub is nice, until the shifter gets wore out and it starts stuttering and shifting between gears at the wrong time and missing shifts when you do try and shift it. The hub better be tough, because it gets a lot of abuse until the whole unit from the clickbox to the twistgrip gets replaced with a new assembly. |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15465666)
That's a wicked looking machine - IMHO it looks like an accident waiting to happen with the rider's toes in that proximity to the front fender. What was the alleged purpose for this shortened configuration?
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Progress report: I got the vice grips and harbor freight 4" grinder out and got to work stripping the bike down.
(Just kidding about the tools.) Actually I washed the bike with car wash soap, then sprayed Gibbs oil on each fastener and all exposed rust, then proceeded to remove components and catalogue them. http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FE858CF662.jpg Couldn't find any evidence of another color at all in any of the chips, no evidence of that nice black undercoat either. http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FE9C49060B.jpg took the forks off and finally found evidence of an original color in some overspray- looks like green to me.I think someone did a prior strip and "restore"-I cant imagine factory paint being so poorly applied, Looks like the 531 sticker was masked off-some orange infringes on the border of the decal. http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FEA8A2CB5A.jpg What is that little pip on the right fork interior? http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FEB40E0BA8.jpg The rims look like they had black paint on the sides. http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FEC9C1783D.jpg Got it all torn down, all of the rusty bits are covered in Gibbs oil, now I have to decide which derusting process I'm going to attempt. And whether to attempt to repaint. I'm tempted to run a lighter crank and wheelset and ride the hell out of it while I restore the originals. |
Originally Posted by Monolithik
(Post 15467687)
Progress report: I got the vice grips and harbor freight 4" grinder out and got to work stripping the bike down.
(Just kidding about the tools.) Actually I washed the bike with car wash soap, then sprayed Gibbs oil on each fastener and all exposed rust, then proceeded to remove components and catalogue them. http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FEA8A2CB5A.jpg What is that little pip on the right fork interior? http://i686.photobucket.com/albums/v...FEB40E0BA8.jpg Aaron :) |
Originally Posted by wahoonc
(Post 15468178)
To keep a headlight bracket from sliding down would be my guess.
Aaron :) https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/DSC06162.JPG |
Originally Posted by Amesja
(Post 15466495)
The SRAM 7-speed has a nice shifter?
It's a 1000-mile shifter in my experience. After 1000 miles you need to replace it, the cable, and the clickbox as a unit as the twistgrip is wore out -unless you are the type that never shifts gears. The hub is nice, until the shifter gets wore out and it starts stuttering and shifting between gears at the wrong time and missing shifts when you do try and shift it. The hub better be tough, because it gets a lot of abuse until the whole unit from the clickbox to the twistgrip gets replaced with a new assembly. |
I rode my Rudge on a small errand today. I realized I'd do better with the saddle higher on the 3-speed than I normally have it on the road bike. I raised it a half inch. Fantastic.
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4 Attachment(s)
Here's a look at how I altered some Dimension Cork Grips, obtained from an eBay vendor, for use on an early 70's AMF Hercules [Nottingham-built].
One thing I've noticed about the Raleigh "sub brands" is that there is less material in: wheels, handlebars, chainrings, brakes and so on... Not that the materials Raleigh used on these bikes was inferior; quite the contrary, they are typically extremely durable and rugged; just a little lighter weight. [and actually that small difference in weight can be felt when you ride two similarly sized machines; one of them being the flagship Raleigh Sports model, another being for instance, this little Hercules] Anyway, the "stock" Dimension cork grips can be put on a Raleigh Sports [or LTD, Superbe] with no alterations and still maintaining correct ergonomics with the brake levers and thumb shifter. Not so with the smaller handlebars on some of the sub brands like this Hercules women's 19" frame. Here's the process I used: Using even, steady strokes with my hacksaw, I removed an inch from the front of the grips. Then I beveled the new front ends with: 1. first my bench grinder and 2. then by hand using 150 grit sandpaper. Next I followed the instructions on the Dimension packaging and used isopropyl [rubbing] alcohol to install the grips on the cleaned handlebar ends. [I had cut the old, very hard, factory OEM grips off before that] Then I put two coats of Amber Shellac on the grips; after rubbing the first coat with fine steel wool after it had dried for about an hour. First thing this morning, I checked the grips and found they were loose; fixed that with some Sticky Ass glue [a competitor to Gorilla glue] Then I coated the grips with acetone-cut boiled linseed oil. [I had the linseed oil on the shelf but it had been there untouched for 25-30 years and a solid scum had developed on top of the oil; the acetone fixed that fast and I poked through it and stirred the still very fluid oil underneath with the small piece of lumber scrap you see in the pic] Hope this might help someone undertaking this kinda thing, and many thanks to all who "walked me through" this project; particularly to posters of Posts 267 and 501! http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310043 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310044 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310050 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310051 |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15498898)
Here's a look at how I altered some Dimension Cork Grips, obtained from an eBay vendor, for use on an early 70's AMF Hercules [Nottingham-built].
One thing I've noticed about the Raleigh "sub brands" is that there is less material in: wheels, handlebars, chainrings, brakes and so on... Not that the materials Raleigh used on these bikes was inferior; quite the contrary, they are typically extremely durable and rugged; just a little lighter weight. [and actually that small difference in weight can be felt when you ride two similarly sized machines; one of them being the flagship Raleigh Sports model, another being for instance, this little Hercules] Anyway, the "stock" Dimension cork grips can be put on a Raleigh Sports [or LTD, Superbe] with no alterations and still maintaining correct ergonomics with the brake levers and thumb shifter. Not so with the smaller handlebars on some of the sub brands like this Hercules women's 19" frame. Here's the process I used: Using even, steady strokes with my hacksaw, I removed an inch from the front of the grips. Then I beveled the new front ends with: 1. first my bench grinder and 2. then by hand using 150 grit sandpaper. Next I followed the instructions on the Dimension packaging and used isopropyl [rubbing] alcohol to install the grips on the cleaned handlebar ends. [I had cut the old, very hard, factory OEM grips off before that] Then I put two coats of Amber Shellac on the grips; after rubbing the first coat with fine steel wool after it had dried for about an hour. First thing this morning, I checked the grips and found they were loose; fixed that with some Sticky Ass glue [a competitor to Gorilla glue] Then I coated the grips with acetone-cut boiled linseed oil. [I had the linseed oil on the shelf but it had been there untouched for 25-30 years and a solid scum had developed on top of the oil; the acetone fixed that fast and I poked through it and stirred the still very fluid oil underneath with the small piece of lumber scrap you see in the pic] Hope this might help someone undertaking this kinda thing, and many thanks to all who "walked me through" this project; particularly to posters of Posts 267 and 501! http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310043 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310044 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310050 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=310051 The Dimension cork grip will go all the way onto the Men's Northroad bend without needing to be shortened. The same grip will need to be shortened about 3/4" for the shorter handgrip area on the "Lady's" step-through Raleigh Sports handlebars. There just isn't as much straight bar behind the lever on that bend. It's an easy job to bob the end with a hacksaw and then some sandpaper to clean them up. Cut straight and true -not on an angle! I've put literally dozens of these grips on both versions of the Raleigh Sports plus other lower-brands and licensed brands like the "Flying Jet" and they have all followed this pattern. It's not a difference between the lower-end TI/Raleigh sub-brands and the Raleigh-branded ones. It's the difference between the bars on "Men's" and "Lady's" version. Perhaps in some of the other brands they get the more petite-bend bars on the diamond-framed "Men's" bikes while the Raleigh Sports diamond-frame bikes always get the longer/larger Northroad bend bars. I don't use much, if any glue on these cork grips. If you do you can't get them off again without destroying them. I put a few strips of paper masking tape along the bar ends to largen them up a bit. Don't overlap them, 2 or 3 strips from the end to where the edge of the grip is by the lever is all it needs. Maybe a tiny bit of some fabric glue is all that is needed to secure them but a good solid twist will get them loose enough to be able to tug them off again if necessary. It's 100x less messy to shellac the grips off of the bike on some newspapers. |
Originally Posted by Amesja
(Post 15499126)
The step through ("Lady's" if you will) Raleigh Sports has a different bend Northroad bar than the Diamond-framed (Men's) Raleigh Sports.
Agree but... The Dimension cork grip will go all the way onto the Men's Northroad bend without needing to be shortened. I have 3 Lady's Raleigh Sports here and they all have about 6" of straight before they begin to curve - just as on the 2 Men's Sports I have here... So yes, the curve IS indeed different but the amount of available real estate is the same - 6 inches of straight before the curve radius begins. OTOH, I have 2 Hercules and one BSA Ladies bikes out there and where the Ladys' Sports have the aforementioned 6 inches, all these other three Raleigh-built sub-brands have only 5 inches - making the shortening of the DIMENSION grips a necessity. The same grip will need to be shortened about 3/4" for the shorter handgrip area on the "Lady's" step-through Raleigh Sports handlebars. There just isn't as much straight bar behind the lever on that bend. It's an easy job to bob the end with a hacksaw and then some sandpaper to clean them up. Cut straight and true -not on an angle! I've put literally dozens of these grips on both versions of the Raleigh Sports plus other lower-brands and licensed brands like the "Flying Jet" and they have all followed this pattern. It's not a difference between the lower-end TI/Raleigh sub-brands and the Raleigh-branded ones. It's the difference between the bars on "Men's" and "Lady's" version. Perhaps in some of the other brands they get the more petite-bend bars on the diamond-framed "Men's" bikes while the Raleigh Sports diamond-frame bikes always get the longer/larger Northroad bend bars. I don't have any of the men's sub-brand bikes around unless they're in the parts pile and I didn't look there so I can't address your conjecture on that... I don't use much, if any glue on these cork grips. If you do you can't get them off again without destroying them. I put a few strips of paper masking tape along the bar ends to largen them up a bit. Don't overlap them, 2 or 3 strips from the end to where the edge of the grip is by the lever is all it needs. Maybe a tiny bit of some fabric glue is all that is needed to secure them but a good solid twist will get them loose enough to be able to tug them off again if necessary. It's 100x less messy to shellac the grips off of the bike on some newspapers. In this particular case, the grips won't be coming off until they need replacing and I'll just utility knife them off but appreciate the good info on an alternative. Definitely will consider your method on shellac; I even thought about building a stand with a couple of pieces of 3/4 inch dowel and a 8" piece of scrap 2x6. These grips are gonna replace the ones on all of our English bikes; although I'd maybe like to save the uncomfortable but oh-so-durable DARE grips that are on the Sports models. |
Amesja, I did not know that about the two different handlebar bends! And just today, I was looking at a his-and-hers pair of Sportses which appear to have been bought at the same time.
I have an ongoing journal of bikes parked outside. I've shot most of the pictures in Manhattan. There are still MANY English three-speeds being used for normal duty. They are the oldest common bike on the streets, though there are many ten-speeds from the 70's, too. The English three-speed has proven to be a heck of a reliable and durable bike for city use. I'm not going to look at my journal right now, but I believe you'll see a few three-speeds in it. Some have had no modifications done, some more major modifications, but rarely is it very unlike its original condition. I think the most drastic change I've seen is replacing the rear hub with a coaster brake hub. |
I thnk that AMF Herc is kitted out with a non-Raleigh bar/stem combo. They look like a US design.
My daughters 73 Triumph definitely has a different bar bend with almost no rise at all. That's not consistent with all women's frames, just another data point. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...0/DSC06326.JPG |
I love those shellacked grips! Nice work.
I do have to say on my three speed I am rocking the XLC black cork grips. SUPER COMFY, cheap, and look great on the black bike. |
Originally Posted by PHT
(Post 15500846)
I love those shellacked grips! Nice work.
I do have to say on my three speed I am rocking the XLC black cork grips. SUPER COMFY, cheap, and look great on the black bike. From reading the CV on them, it appears that they are "actually EVA foam" and not real cork as in 2 Buck [or $3] Chuck stoppers. Would you be so kind as to post a pic or two on this thread? Ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XLC-Syntheti...item43b28de9b0 http://www.amazon.com/XLC-Cork-Grips.../dp/B001BN6VBM Tx |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15503710)
But seriously, I have really been considering replacing the OEM DARE grips on my black '74 Raleigh LTD with the XLC "cork" grips.
From reading the CV on them, it appears that they are "actually EVA foam" and not real cork as in 2 Buck [or $3] Chuck stoppers. Would you be so kind as to post a pic or two on this thread? Ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XLC-Syntheti...item43b28de9b0 http://www.amazon.com/XLC-Cork-Grips.../dp/B001BN6VBM Tx edit: this is the best I've got for now http://www.flickr.com/photos/phatmik...in/photostream |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15503710)
But seriously, I have really been considering replacing the OEM DARE grips on my black '74 Raleigh LTD with the XLC "cork" grips.
From reading the CV on them, it appears that they are "actually EVA foam" and not real cork as in 2 Buck [or $3] Chuck stoppers. Would you be so kind as to post a pic or two on this thread? Ref: http://www.ebay.com/itm/XLC-Syntheti...item43b28de9b0 http://www.amazon.com/XLC-Cork-Grips.../dp/B001BN6VBM Tx Aaron :) |
Originally Posted by PHT
(Post 15505312)
They are exactly as they appear in the ebay listing. Hmmm, I have a couple photos in this thread already of my similar vintage LTD-3 and I think they are wearing the grips in those photos. But let me see what else I can find- give me a couple days as I am about to be on the road for the Orono bike swap in Maine. . .
edit: this is the best I've got for now http://www.flickr.com/photos/phatmik...in/photostream We were doing our annual extended family camping trip at Huntington Beach State Park last year and there was a very nice, well-seasoned, lady there who arrived in one of the huge, high dollar, Bluebird coach type campers. She had a Raleigh Sports that looked a lot like your LTD in terms of the "patina"... LOL Obviously she could afford whatever bike she wanted to have - probably several of them... And it finally dawned on me, after seeing the bike at the trail head where you take the boardwalk across and thru the dunes, that she had EXACTLY the right bike for camping at this kind of public campground - after all, who would steal such a little beast? [The 3-speed cognoscenti wouldn't out of respect for each other - and just generally being all-around great guys and gals - and the dingbats wouldn't because all they would see is a "rusty old bike" - and an unfamiliar looking one at that!] So whereas I was jumpy every time I took my own, somewhat polished, LTD to the bath house to relieve myself; had I been on something similar to her bike I would have had a much higher overall comfort level... Anyway, thanks for the skinny on the grips; a pair is going on my black LTD soon! And BTW, if you are Big Mike, I wanted to tell you that I have cruised around your website and I really like the image that you project with it - hope your business is going well and is paying you back in net satisfaction... PS - is that rear cog on your LTD a 22 tooth? |
Originally Posted by wahoonc
(Post 15505380)
I have a set of (the brand escapes me at the moment) in the black on my Raleigh Twenty, believe they are a cork and something. I have never seen a set of black cork grips. I suppose you could dye them. I have regular cork grips on my Redline R530, never bothered to shellac them so they are pretty grungy. I am going to be putting Ergon grips on that bike eventually.
Aaron :) |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15506233)
Yes, I remember seeing your bike earlier in the thread and liking the grips a lot. Re: your LTD-3...
We were doing our annual extended family camping trip at Huntington Beach State Park last year and there was a very nice, well-seasoned, lady there who arrived in one of the huge, high dollar, Bluebird coach type campers. She had a Raleigh Sports that looked a lot like your LTD in terms of the "patina"... LOL Obviously she could afford whatever bike she wanted to have - probably several of them... And it finally dawned on me, after seeing the bike at the trail head where you take the boardwalk across and thru the dunes, that she had EXACTLY the right bike for camping at this kind of public campground - after all, who would steal such a little beast? [The 3-speed cognoscenti wouldn't out of respect for each other - and just generally being all-around great guys and gals - and the dingbats wouldn't because all they would see is a "rusty old bike" - and an unfamiliar looking one at that!] So whereas I was jumpy every time I took my own, somewhat polished, LTD to the bath house to relieve myself; had I been on something similar to her bike I would have had a much higher overall comfort level... Anyway, thanks for the skinny on the grips; a pair is going on my black LTD soon! And BTW, if you are Big Mike, I wanted to tell you that I have cruised around your website and I really like the image that you project with it - hope your business is going well and is paying you back in net satisfaction... PS - is that rear cog on your LTD a 22 tooth? Yup, that's me, thanks for the kind words. It's a big cog- if it's not a 22, it's a 21. Helps a lot going up those hills, but the descents arent as fun. re: Ergon grips- I like them lots too, they are nice to have on longer rides. |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15506248)
The Ergon grips look waayyyy... cool but seem a little pricey to me. And I seem to recall seeing - maybe on eBay, maybe Amazon - a couple of other European brands that are similar to the Ergons. You have any good info on that for me and the board? Tx.
Aaron :) |
This may have been covered before but is the reach the same for the men's Raleigh Sport 21" & 23" frame size?
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Black shoe polish and then shellac... That sounds like it would work a treat.
Bob's your uncle! |
Originally Posted by Schwinnsta
(Post 15509052)
This may have been covered before but is the reach the same for the men's Raleigh Sport 21" & 23" frame size?
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by PHT
(Post 15506570)
It's great to have a fully functional beater and an old Raleigh is the best kind! When the bike isnt in such great shape to begin with, I dont feel as bad customizing bits like bars, stem, brakes. Every once in a while I'll rub some oil on her and she'll look a slight touch nicer. I may steal Wahoo's idea and try some black shoe polish.
Wanted my wife to take this as a "beater" - I got a '55 Raynal in a lot of 4 bikes I bought for parts for a whole $15 USF. This bike is made better that a Raleigh Sports in some ways, and I plan to do a compare & contrast on this thread at some point. Anyhoo, as I said, I wanted my wife to take that "Ugly Betty" Raynal to the beach this Memorial Day but she decided on the Shimano-equipped 3-speed Ross shown below because it was even "uglier"... [cost me $15] So, by the time we leave for the coast, she'll be sweet to ride but good gosh, with the aquamarine blue fender from a '64 Raleigh-built Western Auto on the front, she's indeed an ugly little beastie - even uglier than the dilapidated Raynal! Yup, that's me, thanks for the kind words. Hey, I appreciate people who: 1. Can do things and who will... 2. Under-promise and over-deliver. Following those dictums makes life good... your website reflects those... It's a big cog- if it's not a 22, it's a 21. Helps a lot going up those hills, but the descents arent as fun. Think I'm gonna get a few 22's from Bikesmith... re: Ergon grips- I like them lots too, they are nice to have on longer rides. Might be overkill for me; longest ride I ever did was from Las Pulgas on Camp Pendleton to Encinitas, CA... Not sure how far that was - 110 miles RT seems to float back to me - but it was in '73 on my Sun Tour 10 speed, one sweet little Asian bike... Nowadays, 30 miles RT is about the max I do... |
Originally Posted by clubman
(Post 15500159)
I thnk that AMF Herc is kitted out with a non-Raleigh bar/stem combo. They look like a US design.
My daughters 73 Triumph definitely has a different bar bend with almost no rise at all. That's not consistent with all women's frames, just another data point. https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T...0/DSC06326.JPG I've had the boiled linseed oil on those grips for abouta week now and they're still a little tacky... Got any advice/insights? |
Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate
(Post 15530410)
I've had the boiled linseed oil on those grips for abouta week now and they're still a little tacky... Got any advice/insights? Don't plan on any hand signals? :D Aaron :) |
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