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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

AlTheKiller 04-01-14 03:23 PM

Took the work vehicle to lunch today.
http://imageshack.com/a/img703/5346/dgte.jpg

jrecoi 04-01-14 10:05 PM


Originally Posted by garage sale GT (Post 16618335)
Did they ever give 3-speeds to the army?

The Swiss had trials with three speeds in the early 90s before settling for derailleurs. Singlespeed machines don't have much in the way of cables or shifters to break, a chunk of the derailleur Swiss army bikes have bent hangers and bashed derailleurs despite generous bashguards.

BGBeck 04-02-14 12:08 AM


Originally Posted by Ankheg (Post 16631134)
No, that sounds about right. The front wheels are kind of a pain to get in and out, the first few times you do it. You have to kind of pull the fork blades outward while pushing the hub down (with the bike upside down; I don' t even try to do it right side up anymore) with your thumbs, possibly while cursing loudly. It'll seem like there's no way it can work, then the hub will suddenly snap into place.

And then, if Murphy hates you, you'll discover you put the wheel in backwards, with the adjustable cone on the wrong side, and have to do it all over again. :)

Thanks. I was beginning to think I was too dumb to do bicycle mechanics. I do have the cursing part down! :lol:

garage sale GT 04-02-14 07:19 AM


Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 16633802)
The Swiss had trials with three speeds in the early 90s before settling for derailleurs. Singlespeed machines don't have much in the way of cables or shifters to break, a chunk of the derailleur Swiss army bikes have bent hangers and bashed derailleurs despite generous bashguards.

I was thinking it would be easy to look up if the British ever used 3-speeds. The original DL-1 f course did not.

I took a casual stab at finding it and was surprised to read the military model came with "butt-ended tubing" at least at some point.

PalmettoUpstate 04-09-14 04:50 PM


Originally Posted by garage sale GT (Post 16618335)
Did they ever give 3-speeds to the army?

These are single speeds but this is quite interesting nonetheless: put dutch bicycle band into a Youtube search and check 'em out!

Ankheg 04-09-14 05:52 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Over the winter we managed to pick up, cough, three(!) English 3-speeds. One was a 21" Hercules from possibly 1970/1971 that came from a pretty inept bike flipper. It was pretty beat, missing the fenders, but the wheels were in quite good shape. I needed a bike to tow a trailer with, and this seemed like it'd fit the bill.

The old handlebars were bent, and while I had a spare Raleigh replacement, I decided to swap out everything. Stem is some cheap steel Sunlite one, and the handlebars are Wald #896 , my favored cruiser bars. (Slightly longer and wider than the original Raleigh bars.) Cork grips, Velo-Orange levers, a spare Sunlite saddle I had laying around in the basement, a new front brake, new tires, new cog (20T--it originally had a 17T one... no, just no...) and chain, and it was done. It did have the nice fully-servicable rubber block pedals we all know and love, but I put those on my wife's bike, since that came with those hideous solid-plastic pedal-shaped-objects of legend, and put on some random old pedals I had in the basement.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373757

The bike my wife picked up (I'll post pics someday, probably) had a coaster-brake rear hub, which she immediately hated, so I swapped the AW wheel from this Hercules onto hers. Hence this battered black Herc with three brakes-well, really two and a half, since the TWC Mark III leaves a bit to be desired in the stopping department.

Took it for the first ride this afternoon, and I'll be on the lookout for a replacement AW wheel soon, as I hate the TWC only slightly less than my better half does. :)

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373758

I like to replace the front brakes on newer three-speeds with a centerpull. It's mostly easy enough to do, but you seem to always need a rear brake, regardless of manufacturer, for sufficient reach. (This is a Weinmann-made one from my LBS, apparently off an old Raleigh.)

Anyway, yeah, another Hercules, somewhat butchered. Turned out a bit more hipster-ish than I was hoping, and the only thing more annoying than the TWC is the lack of a kickstand (to be replaced, soon), but it should haul a trailer just fine, which is the important part. And I now have a black English three-speed, which everyone should have at least one of, so there is that. :)

markk900 04-09-14 06:00 PM

I'm likin' that Hercules - nice looking frame, good build, looks like a fun around town rider/trailer hauler....but a 17 tooth! Incredible. I must say though the saddle looks scary to me....

Ankheg 04-09-14 07:04 PM

Yeah, the saddle came loose on me while was out, and I could only get it so tight with the little adjustable wrench I was carrying with me, so it slipped again a couple blocks from home.

And I have no idea what they were thinking when they put a 17T cog on there, except possibly "Hey, if we keep people from ever even trying to leave first gear, they'll never slip into neutral between 2nd and 3rd and lose braking, right? Suck on that, Consumer Reports and your grouchy criticisms of the TWC!" :) I kind of wonder if I was the first person to ride that hub in third gear in forty years?

GordoTrek 04-10-14 05:55 AM

nice herc.. that thing is screaming for a brooks.. please do right by it..

gster 04-10-14 06:49 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I had old reliable out last weekend for a ride. 1976 Raleigh Superbe. The Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2014 will be on Sunday July 27th in Trinity Bellwoods Park (Queen Street side)
More info to follow. A padded sprung seat makes a lot of sense this spring considering the condition of the roads here in Toronto.The inside curb lanes have been torn to shreds with potholes and crumbling asphalt everywhere.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373865

arex 04-10-14 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 16658226)
I had old reliable out last weekend for a ride. 1976 Raleigh Superbe. The Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show 2014 will be on Sunday July 27th in Trinity Bellwoods Park (Queen Street side)
More info to follow. A padded sprung seat makes a lot of sense this spring considering the condition of the roads here in Toronto.The inside curb lanes have been torn to shreds with potholes and crumbling asphalt everywhere.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=373865

Purty.

Ankheg 04-11-14 07:53 PM

Took the Hercules out for another ride. Realized as I was riding along a nice flat street in a quiet part of town that the three-speed TCW hub on this bike only has two speeds. I'd be okay if the were first and second, but for some diabolical reason the three positions on the shifter are 1st, 1st, and 3rd. (And for me, with the 20t cog, 1st is lower than I'd like for riding on level ground--it's supposed to be the hill-climbing gear--and 3rd too high.) It's not, as far as I can tell, a matter of cable adjustment; the cable is correct (at least by AW standards), and moving the shift lever carefully, it just goes 3rd->neutral->1st->more 1st->still more 1st->1st yet again. Put it into "2nd", thinking maybe it'd slip or suddenly pop into 2nd somehow or do anything, really, somewhere along the way, but nope.

I'd take it apart and try to see what's wrong, but I really hate the coaster brake anyway, so this is all the more incentive to just get a new rear wheel with an AW hub, sigh.

Salubrious 04-11-14 09:15 PM

Didja replace the oil in the hub? If its been sitting a while I give it a good dose of Kroil (a penetrating oil) and ride it a few miles. Missing gears seem to majically reappear...

Ed. 04-11-14 10:10 PM

Kroil - an elixir from the gods.

Bledfor Days 04-14-14 11:11 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I finally got the Brooks B-67 on this Raleigh Sport and a nice day to ride it.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=374652

michael k 04-14-14 01:26 PM

Bunch a' enablers ^^^^^

:)


http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/c...pscd56fa4a.jpg

wahoonc 04-14-14 02:06 PM


Originally Posted by michael k (Post 16670257)
Bunch a' enablers ^^^^^

:)

Hell Yes!

:D

Aaron :)

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5442/...6bb0b018_z.jpg

arex 04-15-14 02:05 PM

How repairable are the old Raleigh frames?

On the bike I've been slowly putting together (so much for "winter project"), I just found that the right seat stay is broken loose from the seat tube. I have no idea if it's welded or brazed, and whether it even can be reliably or economically repaired.

JohnDThompson 04-15-14 02:30 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 16673670)
How repairable are the old Raleigh frames? On the bike I've been slowly putting together (so much for "winter project"), I just found that the right seat stay is broken loose from the seat tube. I have no idea if it's welded or brazed, and whether it even can be reliably or economically repaired.

If it's one of the English-built frames it's probably brazed. Look closely where it pulled loose: do you see any brass? It's a relatively easy fix; the hardest part is getting the paint off the area that needs work.

arex 04-15-14 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 16673752)
If it's one of the English-built frames it's probably brazed. Look closely where it pulled loose: do you see any brass? It's a relatively easy fix; the hardest part is getting the paint off the area that needs work.

Looks like brass. Since I'm taking off paint and other stuff, I wonder if there'd be a point to preemptively re-brazing the other side, just to be safe.

JohnDThompson 04-15-14 08:31 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 16674068)
Looks like brass. Since I'm taking off paint and other stuff, I wonder if there'd be a point to preemptively re-brazing the other side, just to be safe.

May as well, as long as you're getting things hot...

garage sale GT 04-15-14 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 16663607)
Didja replace the oil in the hub? If its been sitting a while I give it a good dose of Kroil (a penetrating oil) and ride it a few miles. Missing gears seem to majically reappear...

If it doesn't yet have black, dusty spokes around the hub, I would first try 3-in-1 or a nondetergent motor oil. Those hubs retained the oil by the grease packed into the bearings.

arex 04-15-14 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by garage sale GT (Post 16674831)
If it doesn't yet have black, dusty spokes around the hub, I would first try 3-in-1 or a nondetergent motor oil. Those hubs retained the oil by the grease packed into the bearings.

Why non-detergent, specifically?

arex 04-15-14 09:31 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 16674728)
May as well, as long as you're getting things hot...

Kinda what I was thinking. Thank you.

garage sale GT 04-15-14 09:41 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 16674872)
Why non-detergent, specifically?

Most motor oil is designed to dissolve any sludge which forms. It will dissolve grease. Kroil sounds like it would dissolve grease.

Ankheg 04-15-14 09:43 PM


Originally Posted by garage sale GT (Post 16674831)
If it doesn't yet have black, dusty spokes around the hub, I would first try 3-in-1 or a nondetergent motor oil. Those hubs retained the oil by the grease packed into the bearings.

It's gotten several doses of twenty-weight turbine oil. While it sounds nice, like a well-lubricated SA hub should, it's still stubbornly two speeds. Alas.

If it bugs me too much before I manage to get my hands on a good cheap AW wheel, I have some PB Blaster I guess I could spray in there...

wahoonc 04-16-14 03:10 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 16674872)
Why non-detergent, specifically?

Some of the fancy pants oils with the additives can gum things up over time. In my experience as long as it is not a vegetable based oil you probably don't have much to worry about. Some people like to use synthetics or even ATF. Life is short, oil it up and ride. I use whatever is in my oil can by the shop door... currently Rotella T:eek: left over from a 55 gallon drum where were changing oil on the tractors and other heavy equipment on the place. If you really want to be picky make sure the oil in the hub is compatible with the grease in the bearings, it will reduce the leakage and keep the grease around a bit longer.

Aaron :)

markk900 04-16-14 05:27 AM

Now I am not an expert but have been dealing with some hub issues over the past year...if I understand how things work correctly, since you have first you are not having trouble with the low gear pawls or springs. Are you sure you have 3rd and not second? if the clutch was not moving all the way back to its resting position it would give you 1st/2nd.....Did you check by watching that the sprocket is actually moving slower than the wheel in what you think is third?

Mechanically I am having a hard time imagining how you can't have second since it is the clutch in the right position that retracts the high gear pawls to give you 1:1 isn't it?

Ankheg 04-16-14 08:48 AM

I know 1st + 3rd seems weird, but that's what I've got. Sprocket moves faster than wheel, or sprocket moves slower than wheel. (Or, admittedly, if I hold the shifter just right/just wrong, sprocket moves and wheel doesn't - the dreaded intermediate/neutral. :) ) It was weird enough to make me wonder if I didn't actually have a two-speed coaster-brake hub in a TCW shell - but S-A didn't make such a hub, as far as I can tell.

This site: Troubleshooting Sturmey Archer 3-Speed Hubs ? Vancruisers.ca suggests broken (or frozen/gummed?) pawl springs might be to blame. Not a difficult fix if that's the case, but it's still a TCW and I'm still not enamored of the coaster brake.

JohnDThompson 04-16-14 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by garage sale GT (Post 16674831)
If it doesn't yet have black, dusty spokes around the hub, I would first try 3-in-1 or a nondetergent motor oil. Those hubs retained the oil by the grease packed into the bearings.


Originally Posted by arex (Post 16674872)
Why non-detergent, specifically?

Detergent oils are designed for use with internal combustion engines. The purpose of the detergent is to emulsify any water that has collected with the oil, e.g. from condensation, that might otherwise displace oil and provide inadequate lubrication. When the engine reaches operating temperature, the emulsified water is boiled out of the oil. When you use a detergent oil in a bicycle hub, any water that penetrates into the hub is emulsified, but without the high operating temperature of an internal combustion engine, it remains in the oil in an emulsified state, which can cause internal components to rust.

That said,I've used detergent oils in bicycle hubs without problems; just flush it with fresh oil after riding in wet conditions.


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