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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Velocivixen 02-16-15 07:24 PM

@forestine - what a great bike you have! Stunning. I live in an area where there are several bike co-ops and they have boxes of every part you can imagine. They're off of used bikes, mostly so they're cheap. They also sell new items too. They've been super helpful. I know which ones to go to for whatever type of bike I am dealing with. Maybe you have a bike co-op nearby. Don't let those bike shop folks intimidate you. You know your vintage bike likely better than they do.

I have learned so much with the Phillips. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to reach out and ask. This forum has been full of very generous folks who have a wealth of information.

My 3 speed went out of gear shifting from high (3) to Normal (2). I decided to follow Sturmey Archer instructions (I had been side tracked with various online instructions from people), and it works fine now (so far).

At this point I bought a NOS headlight lens with the chrome rim, along with a rear light lens from England. I also ordered one Col de la Vie 650A tire which should be here in a few days.

forestine 02-16-15 07:45 PM

@Velocivixen - Thank you! The second place (who offered to help me build a "normal" wheel) was a cooperative, but a super small one. They told me they get most of their parts from one main larger coop that goes to dumps and then distributes parts. I'll try that one next time and maybe some of the other larger coops eventually. Maybe they all get their parts from the one place, but they also all get donations in, too.

I don't think I would have gotten this far if it wasn't for lurking this forum, so thanks everyone for your help whether you knew it or not.

nelsonmilum 02-16-15 08:12 PM

Hey everyone, thanks for all of the really positive comments! Here's the before and afters for the "His" portion of the Eaton's Gliders
New Tires, Kool Stops, Cables & Housings, A lovely Brooks Flyer Special, and a Chinese "Golden Cat" Bottle Dynamo Light set. I've got to say I'm pretty happy with the way this turned out.

In the Antique Shop:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7293/...9fd328da_z.jpg
01:03:2015 untitiled 0851 by Lindsay.Joy, on Flickr

In the Living Room:
https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7407/...1d7383b7_z.jpg
P2160005 by nelson_milum, on Flickr

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8660/...0c423f4e_z.jpg
P2160006 by nelson_milum, on Flickr

JohnDThompson 02-16-15 09:33 PM


Originally Posted by nelsonmilum (Post 17560000)

Wait... what happened to the cat?

forestine 02-16-15 09:36 PM

Ha! I just realized our apartment is like dazzle camouflage and it's hard to see anything, so good "spot the difference". The tomatoes were also replaced with bananas.

BigChief 02-17-15 08:24 AM

Wow, matching his and hers vintage white Gliders. Very, very sharp. Love it.

arex 02-17-15 09:13 AM

Those are beautiful bikes.

teaboy 02-17-15 09:35 AM

Velocivixen I have an original Phillips multi tool if its any use to you its yours F O C

Salubrious 02-17-15 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17558976)
Like the first guy kept saying, "What makes you think the hub is fine?" Use that technique long enough and I'll start to doubt my own name. I feel like I should bring cue cards.

The correct answer is 'its an AW'. Like master Sheldon Brown says, paraphrasing: 'AW' might as well mean 'Always Works'.

adventurepdx 02-17-15 11:31 AM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17558655)
Here's my 1973 Eaton's Glider before and after(so far)... Tried taking it to a bike shop because my skills aren't super advanced and I thought I might have to open the hub, to be greeted with absolute disgust (he kept rolling his eyes) by this guy who didn't seem to think it was worth fixing. His suggestion was to replace the entire wheel/hub with a $200 single speed one...I won't be going back to that bike shop. What do they gain from treating people like dirt?

That bike shop sounds jerky, but a lot of shops simply "don't get" three speeds. One shop made suggestions for my old Rudge Sports, which was in perfectly good shape (mostly due to sixty-fiver.) They said what would make things "better" is replace the wheel with a single speed and replace the crankset with a modern cotterless. Of course the Rudge chainring is most of the charm of the bike! To be fair, they were generally a decent shop that did good work, but their focus was on new.

crank_addict 02-17-15 11:37 AM

I would tell that bike shop to give you everyone of those junk 3 speed bikes designed for riding the left side of the roadway. Its just garbage taking up shop space and of course no one knows how to work on English junk. Its like those old Brit cars and Lucas electrics. :p

gster 02-17-15 02:41 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 17561472)
That bike shop sounds jerky, but a lot of shops simply "don't get" three speeds. One shop made suggestions for my old Rudge Sports, which was in perfectly good shape (mostly due to sixty-fiver.) They said what would make things "better" is replace the wheel with a single speed and replace the crankset with a modern cotterless. Of course the Rudge chainring is most of the charm of the bike! To be fair, they were generally a decent shop that did good work, but their focus was on new.

The bicycle co ops here in Toronto have a decent supply of 3 speed parts and Jerry the mechanic at Community Bicycle Network teaches a workshop on 3 speed hubs every fall.
I'm always on the lookout for spare hubs and triggers etc as the price for a simple washer/nut on Ebay can be expensive. Come spring there's always a discard bike or two at the side of the road and even if it's beyond repair it could be a good parts donor.

Velocivixen 02-18-15 06:49 PM

Hi all you three speeders. I have a question in advance of having an issue. My Phillips now sports Kenda 26 1 3/8" tires that measure 33mm wide. I ordered a Col de la Vie in the same size & accd to Harris's site typically measures 38.5mm. Of course there are others who measure theirs as narrower. My rim is CR18. Fender follows current tire fine width wise. If the new tire is wider, how do I go about "massaging" the fender out a little wider.

I recall online someone installing metal fenders and they had to widen them out a little and they went into great details with photos, but now, for the life of me, I can't find that site.

nlerner 02-18-15 07:09 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17565881)
Hi all you three speeders. I have a question in advance of having an issue. My Phillips now sports Kenda 26 1 3/8" tires that measure 33mm wide. I ordered a Col de la Vie in the same size & accd to Harris's site typically measures 38.5mm. Of course there are others who measure theirs as narrower. My rim is CR18. Fender follows current tire fine width wise. If the new tire is wider, how do I go about "massaging" the fender out a little wider.

I recall online someone installing metal fenders and they had to widen them out a little and they went into great details with photos, but now, for the life of me, I can't find that site.

Maybe this photo set from southpawboston? The example fender is alu, however, rather than steel, but the latter should still be able to be re-shaped.

sykerocker 02-18-15 07:19 PM

Regarding the sub thread over the last couple of pages on bike shops with a ****ty attitude:

First off, I don't defend them. In fact, I was happy as all get out when Rowlett's in Richmond, VA announced they were closing down; mainly because the staff there was always quick to belittle anyone that came in there who wasn't on the latest carbon fiber wonderbike. They were the only shop in town who'd rag me for the stuff I ride. Not helped by my knowing that I had more years of experience repairing bikes than anyone that worked there, with the possible exception of the owner.

However, such attitudes come from a variety of sources: 1. Pure staff snobbishness (aka, childishness). Indefensible, and should be grounds for employee termination. It certainly would have been at the shop I worked at in Erie, PA 1969-74. 2. Not profitable enough to bother learning how. Most bicycle shops nowadays don't really repair bicycles. They swap defective or worn parts. Actually figuring out what's wrong with a vintage bike and how to fix it takes too much time, too much effort, and doesn't bring in enough revenue when they could turn out three or four modern bikes in the same time it takes to figure yours out (assuming they don't know in the first place. 3. You're not a desirable customer. You're not riding something current, easily repairable to their skills, so you're not going to be profitable enough to bother with.

In mundane life I work for a Honda/Yamaha/CanAm motorcycle shop. And we don't take on vintage Hondas or Yamahas. Mainly because the customer isn't riding them because of a love of antique motorcycles, they're riding them because you can buy them for $500.00 or less. He's probably a #3 in the shop's eyes. And that customer's attitude on repairs is all to often the same as purchasing the bike in the first place - unrealistic regarding what it'll cost, and quick to freak when you give them the estimate of what it'll cost to get their bike running. The big difference in this scenario is that when you're talking a 3-4 week backlog on a motorcycle repair, you have to put your time on the customers who are riding new or at least recent bikes. They're the long term repeat customers.

Odds are, the guy at the bike shop saw you in one of these three categories - most likely #3 . At least I hope so. While #1 is totally indefensible, the other two have something of a business sense about them, trying to cull out the losing customers and just keeping the profitable. Even though its damned unfair.

There's only two answers to this: 1. Find a shop that finds it profitable and desirable to work on vintage and obsolescent bicycles. 2. Learn to work on your own. In the long run, #2 is easier and cheaper.

sykerocker 02-18-15 07:23 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17565881)
Hi all you three speeders. I have a question in advance of having an issue. My Phillips now sports Kenda 26 1 3/8" tires that measure 33mm wide. I ordered a Col de la Vie in the same size & accd to Harris's site typically measures 38.5mm. Of course there are others who measure theirs as narrower. My rim is CR18. Fender follows current tire fine width wise. If the new tire is wider, how do I go about "massaging" the fender out a little wider.

I recall online someone installing metal fenders and they had to widen them out a little and they went into great details with photos, but now, for the life of me, I can't find that site.

My method was to grab the edge of the fender or fender stay (whichever is less and will still give you the necessary clearance) in the jaws of a medium sized crescent wrench and use it as a lever to gently spread the part outwards. Little bits at a time, and made sure you're working on both sides to keep the spreading even.

forestine 02-18-15 07:43 PM

While their reasoning may have leaned towards 2/3, the guy's attitude was really indefensible. You don't roll your eyes at someone. You treat people with respect whether or not you think they're profitable and worth your time. I think it would have been completely fair and reasonable to flat out say that they didn't have the skills, tools or interest (profit, etc) to fix my bike. They could have explained why, given me a recommendation for say, a community shop where I could learn to fix it myself, or whatever. How do they stay open? I guess the clique they pander to has enough money to sustain them. Too bad. I have worked in retail for a long time and if I talked to people like that, I'd be fired.

Salubrious 02-18-15 08:56 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17565881)
Hi all you three speeders. I have a question in advance of having an issue. My Phillips now sports Kenda 26 1 3/8" tires that measure 33mm wide. I ordered a Col de la Vie in the same size & accd to Harris's site typically measures 38.5mm. Of course there are others who measure theirs as narrower. My rim is CR18. Fender follows current tire fine width wise. If the new tire is wider, how do I go about "massaging" the fender out a little wider.

I recall online someone installing metal fenders and they had to widen them out a little and they went into great details with photos, but now, for the life of me, I can't find that site.

I'd be surprised if this is even an issue. The Kendas fit my Raleigh, both my Humber Sports, A friend's Phillips Sport; can't think of Brit bike made with 650A rims that they won't fit. Other tires, like the Continental City rides and the Michelins are more svelt so they are no worries. The Kendas are pretty bulbous and they are 37mm; I don't think an extra mm is going to make a problem.

The big problem is likely if you can get those tire to sit nicely on the rims- CR18s are kinda narrow.

Velocivixen 02-18-15 10:01 PM

@Salubrious - good to know. My Kendas measure 33+mm on those rims. I guess I'll find out tomorrow. :thumb:

noglider 02-18-15 10:08 PM

Your Col de la Vies will fit fine. You won't have to spread your fenders.

gster 02-18-15 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 17566398)
Your Col de la Vies will fit fine. You won't have to spread your fenders.

Hey! None of that!

Velocivixen 02-18-15 11:06 PM

You guys are funny.:thumb: I'll let you know how it goes. I'll even take some photos.

adventurepdx 02-19-15 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 17566221)
The big problem is likely if you can get those tire to sit nicely on the rims- CR18s are kinda narrow.

Col de la Vies fit fine on CR18s. I know from experience.

Velocivixen 02-19-15 12:04 PM

I've been wondering about taking a bike with 126 mm dropout (derailleur bike), and making it a 3 speed. The dropout on my Phillips is 115, so obviously I'd need a longer axle SA 3 speed hub for a conversion. Right?

Is is there a vintage 3 speed hub with longer axle? Or would I need to stick with modern SA?

Salubrious 02-19-15 12:22 PM

:) That rim is such a life saver!- new life for many 3-speeds...

I have seen AW hubs with wider axles that would allow spacers. Plan B- cold set the frame to the smaller width.

********************

A question of my own- anyone ever hear of a Westwood rim (28" x 1 1/2", rod brake style) in alloy with 32 holes?? I have a 70s Tourist and am thinking of setting it up a vintage SA drum brake hub in the front.

BGBeck 02-19-15 12:23 PM

FWIW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIIj...em-subs_digest

BigChief 02-19-15 01:26 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Finished my Rudge downtube graphic. Thanks to noglider for providing me a template. Hard to know the color exactly without an example in front of me. Waterslides on black paint tend to darken a bit, so I may make some further adjustments. If anyone wants one, I posted a zip file containing a JPEG, TIFF in 300 DPI ready to print and the original PSD Photoshop work file in case anybody wants to tinker with it.http://www.crystalspringfarm.net/AA/...owntube008.zip
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=435100

noglider 02-19-15 02:19 PM

Pretty good job, @BigChief.

Salubrious 02-19-15 03:33 PM

I agree! What would it take to do that for a Humber Sports?

desconhecido 02-19-15 05:07 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17567668)
I've been wondering about taking a bike with 126 mm dropout (derailleur bike), and making it a 3 speed. The dropout on my Phillips is 115, so obviously I'd need a longer axle SA 3 speed hub for a conversion. Right?

Is is there a vintage 3 speed hub with longer axle? Or would I need to stick with modern SA?

Hopefully, somebody who actually knows something will answer this question. But, that's never stopped me before, so until the right answer comes:

According to Sheldon's (which includes some info about this) site, the axle needs to be 31 mm longer than the OLD. SA had at least 3 axle lengths for the AW hubs which were:

5 3/4 (146 mm 115mm OLD)
6 1/4 (159 mm 128 mm OLD)
6 13/32 (163 mm 132 OLD)

Replacement axles in all three lengths appear to be available either at Harris, Niagara, or ebay. Prices shipped to you on the order of $15 to $25.

My understanding (which is based just on google knowledge -- I have no experience) is that any of these axles will fit into any of the AW hubs as all the machinings, gear, slot, etc, are dimensionally the same with respect to the hub body. All the length differences are accounted for outside the cones.
So, my guess is that you could plug one of the longer axles in an AW hub and have it spaced out for 126 mm or 130 mm. The 63 mm axles should work with either and just have a little extra length on the left side if used in a 120 mm or 126 mm hub.

If you were to do this, you may need to adjust spacer placement so that the right side axle nut works properly and you may need a different indicator chain. Just guessing. Dishing may be required.


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