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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

SirMike1983 12-21-16 09:21 PM

My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

1964 Dawn Tourist rim:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BK7urL8pl...0/IMG_2956.JPG

1964 Dawn Tourist for the Danish market:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

BigChief 12-21-16 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19264969)
I've straightened a few soft steel cranks with the mallet/blocks thing 'in situ'. I also have a 16" adjustable wrench that allows you to push and pull the ring into alignment. No I don't worry about the hard steel BB's on these bikes, I find they tolerate the abuse. I guess it depends on the bike. It's easier than truing a wheel

I thought about leaving the crank on the bike and bending the outer rim with a wrench. It makes sense that it would reverse the bend since it got hit on the outer rim and was fixed at the spindle when it bent originally. Never tried it because I was afraid I'd end up making an S bend or kink and never get the wobble out. I felt safer putting the fulcrum point at the center of the bend, but if bending it from the rim with a wrench works, that would sure be the easy way to go. Maybe I'll have the courage to try it next time. I always straighten crank arms while they're still mounted on the bike. Doesn't hurt the bearings a bit.

dweenk 12-22-16 12:45 PM

I plan to regrease the bottom bracket on the Sprite, so I may as well pull the chainwheel. I have a vise with wooden jaws, so I can give lots of support to the area in question.

BYW, the bike has a shop sticker on it that reads "Dieners, Pottstown, PA".

BigChief 12-22-16 02:38 PM

I've straightened many crank arms over the years but only 2 chainwheels. Both were the standard Raleigh spoked type not heron wheels. The bench vise method did work, but I'm very interested in what clubman said about tweeking the wheel with a large wrench while it was mounted on the BB. You could just spin the crank and make adjustments by eye. I'm going to try this next time. I spent a long time getting those to lie flat on the surface plate. Bending it with a wrench would be far more efficient and may work just as well.

BigChief 12-22-16 03:43 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19265267)
My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

1964 Dawn Tourist rim:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BK7urL8pl...0/IMG_2956.JPG

1964 Dawn Tourist for the Danish market:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XVlWdiv7g...0/IMG_2951.JPG

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5ZSev8tVa...0/IMG_2952.JPG

I think chrome plating was more rugged on the 50s and early 60s bikes in general. Quality seemed to suffer some by the 70s and today, most of it is poor. It doesn't even look the same new and rusts quickly.

clubman 12-22-16 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19266423)
I've straightened many crank arms over the years but only 2 chainwheels. Both were the standard Raleigh spoked type not heron wheels. The bench vise method did work, but I'm very interested in what clubman said about tweeking the wheel with a large wrench while it was mounted on the BB. You could just spin the crank and make adjustments by eye. I'm going to try this next time. I spent a long time getting those to lie flat on the surface plate. Bending it with a wrench would be far more efficient and may work just as well.

You got it. The ability to spin the cranks lets you quickly identify the wow in the rings. 5 mins using the wrench and a deadblow hammer to get it close enough to be unnoticeable. Large C clamps are also good options, they let you get a purchase closer to the spindle if needed.

2cam16 12-23-16 05:41 PM

Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

drday 12-23-16 06:05 PM

Got er' done just in time for the winter solstice.
 
1 Attachment(s)
1960 Raleigh Sports with 6 speed conversion. Except for the grips it is ready. Also, this bike has the Westrick rims as noted in the previous post.

clubman 12-23-16 06:45 PM


Originally Posted by 2cam16 (Post 19268376)
Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

Really nice work, best $10 Huffy I've ever seen. Don't forget to drizzle lots-o-oil into the rear brake housing. Water likes to get in there causing seizures.:eek:

2cam16 12-23-16 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19268459)
Really nice work, best $10 Huffy I've ever seen. Don't forget to drizzle lots-o-oil into the rear brake housing. Water likes to get in there causing seizures.:eek:

Thanks,Clubman! Will do.

thumpism 12-24-16 06:41 AM

Okay, so it's not English, but German. However it is a 3-speed. Actually, it's kinda like two 3-speeds.

Vintage German Westfalen tandem cruiser bicycle

Vintage German Westfalen tandem cruiser bicycle - $500 (Williamsburg)

https://images.craigslist.org/01313_...K_1200x900.jpg

condition: excellent
make / manufacturer: Westfallen
model name / number: Top Modell
size / dimensions: 22" front post 21" rear post

Reluctantly selling my 1980's Westfalen Top Modell tandem bike. This tandem is in beautiful condition, new tires and tubes, freshly tuned and ready to ride. Features a Sachs 3 speed coaster brake hub, dual Aero Continental cranksets, front and rear Weinmann side pull brakes, Pletscher rack, full lighting, chrome fenders, 26" CST Classic E-Bike tires with reflective sidewall. 22" / 21" frame that sports the original air pump, original tool kit, and a rear wheel lock built into the frame. Built and sold in Germany to a high standard with detail and aesthetics that are rare anymore and hard to find.

This is a gorgeous bike that rides perfectly. I collect, restore and ride vintage bikes and consider this one of my best but it does not get ridden like it should! The bike is perfect for rides on the Capitol bike trail, Colonial Parkway, the oceanfront, or around Richmond.

May consider trades of quality men's mountain bike MTB or road bike.

markk900 12-24-16 07:54 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19265267)
My experience is also that the Westrick rims with the matte raised center ridge hold up better and are more rust resistant. They lasted through at least the late 1950s on standard pattern bikes, later on specialty export models. My 1958 Sports came with them stock, as did my 1964 Danish-export Dawn Tourist.

I have those rims on my 1949 Humber, and for the most part they are in excellent shape, except the brake surfaces were quite worn and rusty. Cleaned them up and they work as well as can be expected, and I bought some replacement CR18s for when I eventually replace them, but the trainspotter in me thinks the rim profile and the matt centre are details too nice to lose.

Any idea how to rechrome that type of rim and retain the satin centre? The fellow in Greece has a couple of NOS ones but chroming might be cheaper!

desconhecido 12-24-16 12:36 PM

old Raleigh rims
 
I looked through old photos that I took when I acquired a couple bikes about two years ago. One is a 51 Sports
step through the other is a 56 21" Sports. There is definitely a difference between the rims on the 51 and the
56.

This first picture shows, from left to right, 590 CR18, 51 Sports front wheel, 56 Sports rear wheel, two 79
Sturmey Archer rims from a 79 Sports

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim1.jpg

The difference between the 51 and the 56 rims is readily apparent. They don't appear to me to be the same alloy
though they seem to be the same extrusion (or however the flat rim stock is formed) which is clearly different in
shape from the 79 rims, though that may not be obvious in the photo. Of course, the obvious difference is how
corrosion resistant the 51 rim seems as opposed to the 56.


Here's a pretty clear photo of the 51 rim which shows the raised center section which is, I believe etched perhaps
mechanically.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim5.jpg

Here's a photo of the 56 which, for some reason, didn't come out as clear.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim2.jpg

The brand stamping is not nearly as clear and though the raised center is sort of a matte finish, it is not nearly as
distinct as the 51. Interesting, the "registration" number on the 56 rims is the same as that on the 51 rims, so it
seems that Raleigh considered to be identical, though they were clearly not.

Here's a picture of the weld joint on the 51 rim that was in the above pictures

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim6.jpg

There is very little corrosion and the workmanship/machining is, by Raleigh standards, extraordinary. This rim did
not get any work other than just wiping the grease off with a rag. No steel wool or wire brushing or oxalic acid
treatment -- just degreasing. I don't know anything about what alloy they used back then, but it wasn't, in my
opinion, what the were using in 56 and the difference compared to the mid to late 70s is obvious.

Here are the 56 rims earlier today

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim8.jpg

Apparently I cleaned these up with oxalic acid as there are still traces of that yellow crud that gets left behind.
The chrome is mostly intact, except for the brake surfaces all the way around both rims. Note that the center
section on the rim is a matte finish but, to my eye, not the same as on the earlier rims.

All considered, these rims actually cleaned up reasonably well. But, I'll never use them. If anybody can use them,
they can have them for the cost of shipping, or for free in Houston. If they prove useful, I'd accept some random
Raleigh/three speed stuff considered by the recipient to be of equal value. No considered value, no charge.
Specifics: 56 Raleigh EA3 rims cleaned with oxalic acid. 40h and 32h.

BigChief 12-24-16 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by 2cam16 (Post 19268376)
Just finished restoring my Huffy yesterday:
http://i67.tinypic.com/65zhfq.jpg

Wow, that came out nice. Good job. What a good rags to riches story :thumb:

SirMike1983 12-24-16 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 19269372)
I looked through old photos that I took when I acquired a couple bikes about two years ago. One is a 51 Sports
step through the other is a 56 21" Sports. There is definitely a difference between the rims on the 51 and the
56.

This first picture shows, from left to right, 590 CR18, 51 Sports front wheel, 56 Sports rear wheel, two 79
Sturmey Archer rims from a 79 Sports

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim1.jpg

The difference between the 51 and the 56 rims is readily apparent. They don't appear to me to be the same alloy
though they seem to be the same extrusion (or however the flat rim stock is formed) which is clearly different in
shape from the 79 rims, though that may not be obvious in the photo. Of course, the obvious difference is how
corrosion resistant the 51 rim seems as opposed to the 56.


Here's a pretty clear photo of the 51 rim which shows the raised center section which is, I believe etched perhaps
mechanically.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim5.jpg

Here's a photo of the 56 which, for some reason, didn't come out as clear.

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim2.jpg

The brand stamping is not nearly as clear and though the raised center is sort of a matte finish, it is not nearly as
distinct as the 51. Interesting, the "registration" number on the 56 rims is the same as that on the 51 rims, so it
seems that Raleigh considered to be identical, though they were clearly not.

Here's a picture of the weld joint on the 51 rim that was in the above pictures

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim6.jpg

There is very little corrosion and the workmanship/machining is, by Raleigh standards, extraordinary. This rim did
not get any work other than just wiping the grease off with a rag. No steel wool or wire brushing or oxalic acid
treatment -- just degreasing. I don't know anything about what alloy they used back then, but it wasn't, in my
opinion, what the were using in 56 and the difference compared to the mid to late 70s is obvious.

Here are the 56 rims earlier today

http://fatollie.com/rims/rim8.jpg

Apparently I cleaned these up with oxalic acid as there are still traces of that yellow crud that gets left behind.
The chrome is mostly intact, except for the brake surfaces all the way around both rims. Note that the center
section on the rim is a matte finish but, to my eye, not the same as on the earlier rims.

All considered, these rims actually cleaned up reasonably well. But, I'll never use them. If anybody can use them,
they can have them for the cost of shipping, or for free in Houston. If they prove useful, I'd accept some random
Raleigh/three speed stuff considered by the recipient to be of equal value. No considered value, no charge.
Specifics: 56 Raleigh EA3 rims cleaned with oxalic acid. 40h and 32h.

Neat- sent you a PM about these. I am interested.




Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19268987)
I have those rims on my 1949 Humber, and for the most part they are in excellent shape, except the brake surfaces were quite worn and rusty. Cleaned them up and they work as well as can be expected, and I bought some replacement CR18s for when I eventually replace them, but the trainspotter in me thinks the rim profile and the matt centre are details too nice to lose.

Any idea how to rechrome that type of rim and retain the satin centre? The fellow in Greece has a couple of NOS ones but chroming might be cheaper!


What I do when they're like that is clean up the brake with WD-40 and bronze wool or a bronze/brass bristle brush and just run them as is. If the brake track wear is through the plating but not through the base steel, I consider it "honest wear" and just ride them as they stand.

2cam16 12-24-16 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19269535)
Wow, that came out nice. Good job. What a good rags to riches story :thumb:

Thanks Bigchief!

desconhecido 12-24-16 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 19269563)
Neat- sent you a PM about these. I am interested.






What I do when they're like that is clean up the brake with WD-40 and bronze wool or a bronze/brass bristle brush and just run them as is. If the brake track wear is through the plating but not through the base steel, I consider it "honest wear" and just ride them as they stand.

I have to inspect them with a closer eye, but I think the brake surface wear is pretty uniform. I remember them being rustier than they looked early today, but they have been hanging in the garage rafters for a couple years and I don't remember trying to clean them up at all. Obviously, somebody did, and I'm the likely suspect.

Typically I would clean something like this with 0000 or 00000 steel wool wetted with WD40. With the really fine steel wool, it won't scratch the surface much, particularly if gently done. I like the really fine steel wool for polishing aluminum also. 0000 with Mother's and then just Mother's and it makes short work of it so long as there were no flaws that had to be sanded out.

9volt 12-26-16 10:13 AM

I'm starting work on a 56 hub date Robin Hood that's had a poor black repaint some time in the past. Thinking about doing a DIY repaint on this one since the paint isn't great and there are so many black 3 speeds out there. Do you guys want to see in progress pics?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0DxqQESOUI...420-755824.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kDVjVQrKah...470-766643.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-slap9rdZKQ...428-758382.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b_we8qm3LU...467-760631.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GAPWosiBCr...469-763582.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pLkMb8lCkn...471-702638.JPG

BigChief 12-26-16 10:24 AM


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19271820)
I'm starting work on a 56 hub date Robin Hood that's had a poor black repaint some time in the past. Thinking about doing a DIY repaint on this one since the paint isn't great and there are so many black 3 speeds out there. Do you guys want to see in progress pics?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0DxqQESOUI...420-755824.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kDVjVQrKah...470-766643.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-slap9rdZKQ...428-758382.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b_we8qm3LU...467-760631.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GAPWosiBCr...469-763582.JPG

The cable pulley lug mount on the top tube is consistent with the 56 date on the hub. I'm sure you'll have an oil port in the bottom bracket and possibly a lug in the drive side chainstay for an enclosed chainguard. You bet I'd like progress pictures. Next best thing to having a new project myself. Since it's overpainted, you have a nice choice of restoration or customization possibilities.

clubman 12-26-16 11:42 AM


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19271820)
I'm starting work on a 56 hub date Robin Hood that's had a poor black repaint some time in the past. Thinking about doing a DIY repaint on this one since the paint isn't great and there are so many black 3 speeds out there. Do you guys want to see in progress pics?

+1 to pics. A great bike to refurbish. Look at how nice the chrome plating cleans up. The head badge is outstanding too. Do you have the metal pulley wheel for the top tube mount? That may be harder to find that most. I have an extra metal pulley that you might work with. Metal fulcrum stops as well.

I also like the Terry (?) mattress saddle if it's not too beat. Otherwise a Brooks will do.

2cam16 12-26-16 11:49 AM


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19271820)
I'm starting work on a 56 hub date Robin Hood that's had a poor black repaint some time in the past. Thinking about doing a DIY repaint on this one since the paint isn't great and there are so many black 3 speeds out there. Do you guys want to see in progress pics?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-0DxqQESOUI...420-755824.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kDVjVQrKah...470-766643.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-slap9rdZKQ...428-758382.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-b_we8qm3LU...467-760631.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-GAPWosiBCr...469-763582.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-pLkMb8lCkn...471-702638.JPG

Most definitely start a project thread or update us here!

9volt 12-26-16 11:56 AM

I think the windowed shifter is also correct for 56. There is a lug on the drive chain stay near the kick stand. Would that be for an enclosed guard?

It's being very cooperative so far. Pins only needed a rubber mallet to be convinced to come out and the BB looks good. Someone painted over the fixed cup and it's cranky but I think I'll just clean it from the other side. Stem bolt head is a bit stripped. Probably going to file it down to resurface the flats.

Is it ok to post this stuff here or should I start a project thread?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uaTTmvblDN...475-757524.JPG

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pDBLzpzZAE...der-760332.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xj_3s9h1G7...der-762723.jpg

clubman 12-26-16 12:16 PM

Here is just fine. It's where the love is.

9volt 12-26-16 12:31 PM

Well it looks like the fork is shot. It's unfortunate, the lugs on this one were kind of interesting. There is a dent near the top on the wheel side in this pic and then 1-2 smaller ones lower down the arm.

I have a some road forks that might be the right length. Is it likely one of those would work on this thing until a decent Raleigh fork turns up?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-abc7RMubpS...478-767081.JPG

thumpism 12-26-16 12:49 PM


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19272055)
Well it looks like the fork is shot. It's unfortunate, the lugs on this one were kind of interesting. There is a dent near the top on the wheel side in this pic and then 1-2 smaller ones lower down the arm.

I have a some road forks that might be the right length. Is it likely one of those would work on this thing until a decent Raleigh fork turns up?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-abc7RMubpS...478-767081.JPG

Just because the fork tubes are dented does not mean the fork can't be used. If there are no cracks and if the wheel is straight in the fork and the bike tracks straight I'd use it until something better comes along.

9volt 12-26-16 01:16 PM

I'm not that familiar with how much damage a steel for can take and still be safe. If the dents are not a big deal I'll keep going on the RH. lf the fork is toast I'd do this Raleigh Sports step through instead. Any preferences?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wxmb4KcBjj...480-700459.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D47TxPBtiR...482-797121.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uo3dNR4Jxi...481-798666.JPG

thumpism 12-26-16 01:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19272133)
lf the fork is toast I'd do this Raleigh Sports step through instead. Any preferences?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wxmb4KcBjj...480-700459.JPG

I'm partial to Sportses.
Attachment 546896

clubman 12-26-16 01:35 PM

If the fork tracks fine, I would trust it. Dents and dimples aren't likely to affect the integrity of those forks.

dweenk 12-26-16 01:58 PM


Originally Posted by 9volt (Post 19272133)
I'm not that familiar with how much damage a steel for can take and still be safe. If the dents are not a big deal I'll keep going on the RH. lf the fork is toast I'd do this Raleigh Sports step through instead. Any preferences?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-wxmb4KcBjj...480-700459.JPG

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-D47TxPBtiR...482-797121.JPG

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-uo3dNR4Jxi...481-798666.JPG

Another vote for the fork being OK. Why not refurbish them both?

BigChief 12-26-16 02:40 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Since you're repainting, you could replace the forks. If you do, take care to preserve the chrome crown cap. It is pretty much irreplaceable. I think it will fit a more modern Raleigh fork crown. In later years, Raleigh used the standard plain chrome cap on Robin Hoods. Like this one.
Attachment 546905


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