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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

plympton 08-29-17 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19825734)
Raleighs were not produced in model year series. Changes occurred over time and we do have an accurate chronology of their order, but not specific dates. As you know, Raleigh serial numbers aren't an accurate resource for dating manufacture, so we are left with factory catalogs, ads, old photos and personal recollections. Luckily, Sturmey Archer usually stamped dates of manufacture on their IG hub shells. We 3 speeders use the hub dates as a general reference to date our bikes with the understanding that they aren't entirely accurate and it is possible that the hub may not be original to the frame. Although they usually are and if there is a wide difference of the hub date and frame features, the replaced hub is obvious. Still, hub dates are close enough that we have an idea of the age and style bike we are talking about.
edit: We can also tell if a wheel was built by Raleigh because they used a 3x over, over, over pattern that nobody else is likely to use. Most anybody that builds up a wheel will use a 3x over, over under pattern.

Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.

Salubrious 08-29-17 01:55 PM

Raleigh used what they had on hand like many similar companies. The pedals did not change for many years. So anything from the 30s into the 60s will be the right part. If its got reflectors embedded that's a later pedal. The older pedals can be rebuilt and have very good bearings.

Brake pads vary depending on cable or rod brake of course but the same idea applies. You'll probably want Kool Stops anyway as they work a bit better :)

Headbadges are period specific and as far as I can make out, its all about where the rivet is in the heron's head...

3speedslow 08-29-17 02:50 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Stuck at home while the tropical storm passes us so I went with what I had on hand to straighten the case. It involved a rubber hammer with thin pieces of hardwood built up inside and use of needle nose players to work the severe dip on the edge.

End result

Edit: when I was test fitting the handle and stop plate I came to the realization that there was still a dip in the plate which rubbed the trigger hard so I am still in fix mode. I think this photo will show the indent. It looks like someone took a hammer and screwdriver to the outside of the case to try and pound it down. Notice the marks on the letter M in Sturmey.

clubman 08-29-17 02:58 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19826691)
Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.

You'd like to know but can't know for sure. The frame may have sat un-built until '55. Component changes were glacial but the Sturmey shifters as well as hubs, are the most reliable indicators. Use this page for shifter identification. If it were mine, I'd call it a 55 and be done with it.

dweenk 08-29-17 02:58 PM

@3speedslow

I think you did well. Looks good.

noglider 08-29-17 03:22 PM

Clever work, @3speedslow!

BigChief 08-29-17 03:57 PM

@3speedslow That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.

3speedslow 08-29-17 04:10 PM

Thanks all!

I actually like this type of fiddle work. Ultimately I will be more satisfied when I mount it to the handle bar and cable it up to the hub.

arty dave 08-29-17 04:22 PM

3speedslow what's the brass thing in your 1st image?

3speedslow 08-29-17 04:42 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19827110)
@3speedslow That case looks pretty square to me. Good job! There's the other shifter you mentioned with the broken spring. Do you have a replacement? I know a few of us here bought some from funthingsfound on ebay. Can't remember if you were one of them.

No, I was not one of buyers. I was not aware of them. This shifter takes the band steel spring. Easy to get the bent wire spring but can't use that. I was hoping to find spare springs somewhere. I was down in Wilmington yesterday and went to the Two wheeler dealer LBS. he let me look through the dusty top shelf box of SA parts but got nothing I needed.

It's worth it to find a spring for my second shifter. It's from the same time period as the other one.

BigChief 08-29-17 05:22 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19827200)
No, I was not one of buyers. I was not aware of them. This shifter takes the band steel spring. Easy to get the bent wire spring but can't use that. I was hoping to find spare springs somewhere. I was down in Wilmington yesterday and went to the Two wheeler dealer LBS. he let me look through the dusty top shelf box of SA parts but got nothing I needed.

It's worth it to find a spring for my second shifter. It's from the same time period as the other one.

Just checked. funthingsfound is on "away" mode until Sept 4 on eBay. He seems to have a pile of em. These same springs were used for years on the 4 speed shifter. No matter, I've got spares. I can send you one.

BigChief 08-29-17 05:55 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19826691)
Thank you. Part of that I understand but how do you resolve component issues? Did the 50 and 54 have the same mud guards, pedals, brake pads, head badge and so on in addition to those other items I mentioned? Ya kinda gotta knew what it is before you can restore it.

If you remove the forward stays on the rear fender, the ones you have would be correct. Yellow Jersey sells repros of the smaller reflectors with black cases that would have been on your bike originally for 5 bucks. I would use a new one for a like new restoration. 60 year old reflectors can get pretty crummy looking. Raleigh pedals without reflectors aren't too hard to find. The fun part would be to reproduce the battery tube that seems to be a standard feature on the Dawn models. I can see myself cutting up an aluminum Maglite. You would need lots of close up pictures of genuine ones to copy details. A fun project for sure. And if you decide to go 3 speed, you'll need a shifter like 3speedslow is rebuilding and a steel guide wheel with bolt to fit in the lug on the top tube. Boy, I wish I was doing this...sorry, I get carried away.

3speedslow 08-29-17 06:07 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19827278)
Just checked. funthingsfound is on "away" mode until Sept 4 on eBay. He seems to have a pile of em. These same springs were used for years on the 4 speed shifter. No matter, I've got spares. I can send you one.

Sending a PM. I think I have worked out how to press the indent out. I will get a stack of pennies or dimes together and build it up inside the case where the indent is.When I soft mallet the case, the high sides should be pressed down. I will see how the set up looks.

plympton 08-29-17 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19827369)
If you remove the forward stays on the rear fender, the ones you have would be correct. Yellow Jersey sells repros of the smaller reflectors with black cases that would have been on your bike originally for 5 bucks. I would use a new one for a like new restoration. 60 year old reflectors can get pretty crummy looking. Raleigh pedals without reflectors aren't too hard to find. The fun part would be to reproduce the battery tube that seems to be a standard feature on the Dawn models. I can see myself cutting up an aluminum Maglite. You would need lots of close up pictures of genuine ones to copy details. A fun project for sure. And if you decide to go 3 speed, you'll need a shifter like 3speedslow is rebuilding and a steel guide wheel with bolt to fit in the lug on the top tube. Boy, I wish I was doing this...sorry, I get carried away.

I understand. Too much time looking at bikes and not enough fishing. There is a little voice in my head that keeps saying "go buy another bike."

gster 08-30-17 06:55 AM

Canadian Market Raleigh Laurentian
 
5 Attachment(s)
Raleigh produced specific models for Canada. I believe the white paint on the steering tube is common to these models as well as the name and decals.
Attachment 578465

Attachment 578466

Attachment 578467

Attachment 578468

Attachment 578469

3speedslow 08-30-17 07:42 AM

Very stunning! I have seen where Raleigh used those white accents on the tubes in 61, is that the yr of the bike?

gster 08-30-17 08:06 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19828360)
Very stunning! I have seen where Raleigh used those white accents on the tubes in 61, is that the yr of the bike?

This is from a local Kijiji ad, so I don't have a date but early 60's seems right.

3speedslow 08-30-17 08:12 PM

1 Attachment(s)
This repair was interesting, rewarding, fun and therapeutic. I agree with @BigChief when he said it all makes sense once you have one of these rebuilds done.

Can't wait till the next one!

BigChief 08-30-17 08:58 PM

Good job!!That looks great. Another classy piece of cycling history rescued from the broken parts bin.

markk900 08-31-17 09:11 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19823378)
Go to the plumbing section of your hardware store and pick up some brushes with brass bristles. They won't scratch steel.

Agree Tom, but be careful - I have found out the hard way that some of the so called brass bristle brushes are some kind of brass plated steel - after some use they essentially becomes steel brushes that DO scratch.

BigChief 08-31-17 10:31 AM

I was wondering lately if maybe the 46x22 gearing on my roadster was too low. Just pedaled the last 3 miles home in a stiff headwind...I'll be keeping the 22Tcog.

3speedslow 08-31-17 12:02 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Went from the front to the back today. Time to build the 3 speed hub. A bit aggregating but enjoyable overall. Wheel is very straight except for one little sway. Will put it on my friends trying stand to finish it up tomorrow. Rim tape will be Velox.

These rims BTW are the original Dunlop 27 x 1 1/4. The special lightweight rim I was going to use will have to be straightened. That is another project all by itself!

3speedslow 08-31-17 12:06 PM

The tooth count for this hub will be 20. I will pick one up from the LBS. I'm lucky to have their dark bins to pick through!

JohnDThompson 08-31-17 08:18 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 19831143)
Agree Tom, but be careful - I have found out the hard way that some of the so called brass bristle brushes are some kind of brass plated steel - after some use they essentially becomes steel brushes that DO scratch.

I've seen this as well. When in doubt, test with a magnet. Pure brass is not magnetic.

BigChief 09-01-17 01:19 PM

@3speedslow Thanks for the goo gone tip. Works great and didn't hurt the paint at all. The paper remnants of the bike shop sticker are gone! There's still bits of a 20-30 steel sticker on the seat tube that's quite a bit tougher. Might be easier to buy a new one and put it over the mess. Now that it's cleaned up, I'll get started on the disassembly. Feels good to have a new project. I've run out of shifters to fix.
72 or 73 Sports
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4415/...71aecbf2_b.jpg72sports by Billy Bones, on Flickr

3speedslow 09-01-17 01:35 PM

That's going to be a nice one when finished. Are you going to switch out the 18 for a 22t cog ? You're welcome re goo gone. I used a lot of it when I was a mechanic at CDO and the co-op Changing Gears. Still go through the stuff at the LBS I play at. People and their stickers, reflective tape!

I asked the LBS owner if he wanted me to repair a few of the shifters he had in the junk box so he could have some as back up, he just shrugged, thanked me and said no.

I have located a few more NOS bits to get when the time comes. They can wait. Wanted to get the 20t cog today but had to leave early before the big thunderstorm caught me out on the road.

BigChief 09-01-17 02:17 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19834292)
That's going to be a nice one when finished. Are you going to switch out the 18 for a 22t cog ? You're welcome re goo gone. I used a lot of it when I was a mechanic at CDO and the co-op Changing Gears. Still go through the stuff at the LBS I play at. People and their stickers, reflective tape!

I asked the LBS owner if he wanted me to repair a few of the shifters he had in the junk box so he could have some as back up, he just shrugged, thanked me and said no.

I have located a few more NOS bits to get when the time comes. They can wait. Wanted to get the 20t cog today but had to leave early before the big thunderstorm caught me out on the road.

This bike has the 46T eyeless heron chainwheel, so I'll use a 20T cog. There's some other original features that are going to go. I can't help myself. It's got those self adjusting brake levers. It's getting regular Raleigh levers. And of course...nice 50s shifting gear and a custom cable to get ride of the pinch bolt. Pretty sure it didn't have a pinch bolt originally anyway. The Brooks mattress saddle is actually pretty comfy, but it looks like a brick on a stick. If I end up lovin this bike I may have to buy a nice saddle. That's just like me. A hundred dollar saddle on a 50 dollar bike.

3speedslow 09-01-17 02:22 PM

I have those self adjusting brakes on my 73. I want to get rid of them too.

BigChief 09-02-17 06:04 AM

These brake levers do tell a story though. About mismanagement and a disconnect from the customers that seems to have infected management at Nottingham in the 70s. Raleigh had been producing the same brake levers for many years. Simple, elegant and well made. The people who really matter, the retail customers were not clamoring for new levers with big clunky ratchets that took up cable slack as the pads wore. Yet, management decided to invest in all new tooling ( even the levers were formed instead of cast) to fix a nonexsistant problem. The result was a bulky, ugly, expensive and very visible component that nobody was asking for. The fact that foolish ideas like this made it to the shop floor shows that things were going screwy in the offices.

gster 09-02-17 06:05 AM

22T Cog Review
 
2 Attachment(s)
Attachment 578885

Attachment 578886
I've been running a 22T rear cog on this bike for the past week or so and quite like the change in gearing. More time is spent in 3rd gear and 1st is only used for the last leg of a hill. I've put a 20T on a similar bike and will give that a road test as well.


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