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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

thumpism 09-12-17 09:18 AM

Jaguar was manufactured well into the '70s and maybe later. West German origin, as far as I know. There's one at the co-op right now, I think. They used a fogged paint job on the bikes I've seen, black over green or over blue. I think there's a Sachs 3-speed on this one.

Originally Posted by gster (Post 19855927)
Advertised as a 1958 Jaguar Duomatic with a very unique trigger...
And a S/A looking hub.
Anyone seen one before?
Attachment 580211

Attachment 580212

Attachment 580213

Attachment 580214


gster 09-12-17 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 19856397)
Jaguar was manufactured well into the '70s and maybe later. West German origin, as far as I know. There's one at the co-op right now, I think. They used a fogged paint job on the bikes I've seen, black over green or over blue. I think there's a Sachs 3-speed on this one.

Thanks for the info.
I should mention the seller is asking a whopping $500.00 for it.

3speedslow 09-12-17 11:10 AM

Cat's not that cool!

thumpism 09-12-17 06:41 PM

3 Attachment(s)
Here's the Jaguar at our local co-op, buried so badly that I could not get better pix without moving a load of metal. Ladies' 21" frame model First Class, what looks like 700C wheels on steel rims, Thun crank, and the classic Sachs Torpedo Dreigang ("3 speed") hub. Could not verify country of origin due to access and messed up decals/stickers.
Attachment 580318

Attachment 580319

Attachment 580320

BigChief 09-12-17 07:58 PM

About 5 years ago I decided to revisit my old hobby of English 3 speeds. I treated myself to some tools that aren't totally necessary. I got by for years without them. Like the Park Tool bottom bracket spanners HCW 11 and 5. The HCW 11 went from nice to important today. I'm servicing an early 70s Sports bottom bracket and the adjustable cup that usually unthreads easily was crabby coming out. I cleaned the threads with solvent and a brass brush and inspected them closely. I could see nothing wrong, but it was just a tight fit. Wouldn't thread in by hand. When I was reassembling the BB, I knew I'd need some extra leverage on the adjustable cup. These are fine threads. Easy to cross thread, so I had to be extra careful. With the spanner, I had the leverage I needed, but still had enough feel to be sure it was threading on correctly. I wouldn't have if I were using something like channel lock pliers and tapping it was out of the question. Today, I was happy I spent a little extra for a nice tool.

DQRider 09-12-17 07:59 PM

Getting Ready for the ABCE

The "All British Cycling Event" is set to roll this weekend. There will be much rejoicing (yay!), a bit of riding, and a lot of showing off and telling tales. On Sunday there will be an "Autojumble", which I'm told is the British equivalent of a swap meet or flea market. If you are looking for some particular farkle or whatsit, chances are you may find it there.

I've been tuning and riding my 1974 Raleigh DL1 in preparation. Last night, it carried me to dinner at a local "Pollo Campero", or South American chicken joint. I parked my steed at the fence, and joined it with my meal on the patio:

https://i.imgur.com/75GP7lz.png

Then this morning I heard on the news that there was a lot of ground fog in the area. A particular location down by the river sprung to mind, and I leaped into action! Riding down the hill towards the Mississippi River with my camera and tripod slung over my shoulder, I found my favorite spot all lined with barges; but that was OK.

What wasn't OK was the immense swarm of mosquitoes that immediately attacked as soon as I dismounted. I was fighting them off the whole time I set up this shot, and I had to trip the shutter on a timer because there was no way I could have held steady whilst a thousand little winged vampires feasted on my blood.

https://i.imgur.com/E5AeOn5.png
I think this photo was worth it though, don't you?



Ballenxj 09-12-17 08:43 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 19857953)
Getting Ready for the ABCE

The "All British Cycling Event" is set to roll this weekend.
<---- snip ---->
I think this photo was worth it though, don't you?


Yes, it was worth it. Nice shot. :thumb:
Hate mosquitoes.
Love the Bike. :thumb:
Tell us about those tires? Yeah, I noticed, and assume they are period correct, but.....

campngolf 09-12-17 10:51 PM

What's a few hundred (thousand?) mosquito bites when you can get a great shot like that of such a cool bike? Nice work.

BigChief 09-13-17 05:51 AM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 19857953)
Getting Ready for the ABCE

The "All British Cycling Event" is set to roll this weekend. There will be much rejoicing (yay!), a bit of riding, and a lot of showing off and telling tales. On Sunday there will be an "Autojumble", which I'm told is the British equivalent of a swap meet or flea market. If you are looking for some particular farkle or whatsit, chances are you may find it there.

I've been tuning and riding my 1974 Raleigh DL1 in preparation. Last night, it carried me to dinner at a local "Pollo Campero", or South American chicken joint. I parked my steed at the fence, and joined it with my meal on the patio:

Then this morning I heard on the news that there was a lot of ground fog in the area. A particular location down by the river sprung to mind, and I leaped into action! Riding down the hill towards the Mississippi River with my camera and tripod slung over my shoulder, I found my favorite spot all lined with barges; but that was OK.

What wasn't OK was the immense swarm of mosquitoes that immediately attacked as soon as I dismounted. I was fighting them off the whole time I set up this shot, and I had to trip the shutter on a timer because there was no way I could have held steady whilst a thousand little winged vampires feasted on my blood.

I think this photo was worth it though, don't you?



I always enjoy your photos. Thanks for sharing them here. What a beautiful roadster. It's older than 1974 isn't it?

DQRider 09-13-17 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19858408)
I always enjoy your photos. Thanks for sharing them here. What a beautiful roadster. It's older than 1974 isn't it?

What an odd sort of brainfart that was! :foo: It is indeed a 1971, not a `74 - or at least the AW hub is. I remember when I first bought it and looked for that date on the hub, the font they used had me thinking that '1' was a '4', and that errant impression is apparently still bouncing around somewhere in my head. Thanks for the reboot, @BigChief!

For @Ballenxj: Those are Schwalbe Delta Cruisers in creme color. I first saw those on a DL1 path racer someone had built, and for awhile there a bunch of Raleighs were running them. I've seen a couple of Pashleys sporting the creme `Cruisers as well.

They are nice tires, although they are the only ones I've used on this bike since I restored it. And they do set off the black frame and fenders quite nicely.



johnnyspaghetti 09-13-17 09:44 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19856663)
Cat's not that cool!

The cat may not be $500 cool but it is possible it is to someone. I think is is totally cool bling that is quite unique on a fairly nice old 3-speed?

gster 09-14-17 06:13 AM

Wtf???
 
1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 580493
The '72 Superbe I bought last weekend had some trouble in the hub......
The sun gear is completely pooched.
What would cause this?
I suspect that the hub was really over tightened with no play.
The planet gears appear to be fine with no wear and tear at all.
Perhaps the engineers spec'd this part to be a little softer to fail before
the planets?
In any case I had a spare and will reassemble tonight.

gster 09-14-17 06:22 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19858874)
The cat may not be $500 cool but it is possible it is to someone. I think is is totally cool bling that is quite unique on a fairly nice old 3-speed?

Spare parts can be quite difficult to find for some of the Duomatic/Torpedo hubs. Including axle nuts!

johnnyspaghetti 09-14-17 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19860762)
Spare parts can be quite difficult to find for some of the Duomatic/Torpedo hubs. Including axle nuts!

Gotta agree with that, I am unaware of the existence of this Doumatic/Torpedo hub. It is rather amazing the bike looks to be a complete example in VG original condition.

rhm 09-14-17 07:35 AM

Anyone who understands 4 and 5 speed hubs, want to comment on this drawing?

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat...pg?format=500w

Larger version here. It is beautiful, obviously, but there's something I'm not understanding.

noglider 09-14-17 11:55 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 19860894)
Anyone who understands 4 and 5 speed hubs, want to comment on this drawing?

Larger version here. It is beautiful, obviously, but there's something I'm not understanding.

What's the question?

rhm 09-14-17 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19861531)
What's the question?

The question is, does this make sense to you? Forgive me for being cagey, I don't want to draw your attention to anything in particular, but I will say, this drawing does not make sense to me. If you know what the inside of a hub looks like, look at the drawing, and ... what do you think?

NoPhart 09-14-17 02:18 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19852591)
I would suggest getting a DL-1 roadster instead of the lightweight DL-22 type frame. Far more rugged with a rear fork like a racing bike instead of a brazed in drop out. You'ld have to have reeeeel strong legs to flex one of those puppies.
edit: If you really love 3 speeds, you'll end up with one someday anyway!

(Just noticed this thread is in "Classic & Vintage". I came to it through a search. That explains your response.) :rolleyes:

As my inquiry post indicated, I'm using my SA 3spd in a very unique way; 2spd with granny low on an eMTB.

http://i.imgur.com/R9C23P6.jpg

Hoping to locate a pair of sliding dropouts that will fit a Soma B-Side with an axle slot only the thickness of the flat sides of the axle (~8mm). Soma and Paragon dropouts are 10mm and the torque twist washers with single tab aren't cutting the mustard on my vertical drops. Maybe some of the experienced 3-speeders in this thread will know if there are any out there to be had?

FYI: Nice bike you posted up there! :thumb:

jungwiar 09-14-17 06:27 PM

Omg
 
I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this (on and off over a number of weeks), I have bought 3 Raleighs (pics to come), completely tearing down and rebuilding two of them. I have built the DIY cotter press from Harbor Freight (works great by the way), rebuilt hubs, built new wheels - wait - I have bought 4 Raleighs (donor parts bike) and sold 1... In addition to the wrenching, have put on (along with my wife) more than 100 miles on these great bikes in the last month.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Haven't posted in over 6 years, but this thread and these bikes have me back on this board...

thumpism 09-14-17 06:48 PM


Originally Posted by jungwiar (Post 19862308)
I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this...

Good job but if you're looking for a challenge go to Adventure Rider in the Thumpers forum and read the DR650 thread. Should only take you about 14 times as long.

http://advrider.com/index.php?thread...thread.135295/

gster 09-14-17 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by jungwiar (Post 19862308)
I DID IT!!! Yes, I completed reading the entire thread! All 13,000+ posts/550 pages! In the time it took me to read this (on and off over a number of weeks), I have bought 3 Raleighs (pics to come), completely tearing down and rebuilding two of them. I have built the DIY cotter press from Harbor Freight (works great by the way), rebuilt hubs, built new wheels - wait - I have bought 4 Raleighs (donor parts bike) and sold 1... In addition to the wrenching, have put on (along with my wife) more than 100 miles on these great bikes in the last month.

Thanks to all who have contributed. Haven't posted in over 6 years, but this thread and these bikes have me back on this board...

You got a fever! And the only prescription is more 3 speeds!

BigChief 09-14-17 06:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Everything was going along well with my 73 Sports project until I took the AW apart today. These pawl pins are rusted solid. Soaking in an acetone AT fluid mix now. We'll see. The hub shell is in very good shape on the outside so this was a bit of a surprise.

Attachment 580631

jungwiar 09-14-17 07:07 PM

Oh man - don't look at that! Since I posted last here, I have "cured" myself of buying Honda twins as well... Down to one ('74 CL360) in the garage (well, not counting the two others in parts).

clubman 09-14-17 07:11 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19860762)
Spare parts can be quite difficult to find for some of the Duomatic/Torpedo hubs. Including axle nuts!

Especially the axle nuts. Pretty sure that's a three speed. Duomatics were first made in '64.

SirMike1983 09-14-17 07:24 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19862373)
Everything was going along well with my 73 Sports project until I took the AW apart today. These pawl pins are rusted solid. Soaking in an acetone AT fluid mix now. We'll see. The hub shell is in very good shape on the outside so this was a bit of a surprise.

Attachment 580631

I've actually seen that several times on hubs of all different ages. Water can get in by riding a lot in very wet conditions, from flooding, or even from leaving the filler cap open and exposed to the weather. It doesn't take much water to rust the innards because it doesn't want to drain once in there. The hub shells have fairly good chrome usually and that can be cleaned, but the interior is not rust-proofed, so once the water is in, the rust starts up.

BigChief 09-14-17 09:21 PM

Well, it goes to show you never know what you'll find until you open up a hub. Looks perfect on the outside. It will be a little disappointing if I can't get the pins out. I won't be able to call it a 50 dollar bike. I'm not going to sacrifice any of the good 50s hubs I have for this. Still, it is a good bike. Well worth putting another 50 bucks into if I have to.

BigChief 09-15-17 07:44 AM

Whew, after an all night soaking I was able to pry the pawl pins up enough to grab the top with pliers and pull them out. Got everything degreased and soaking in Evaporust now. All the parts except the pawl springs look reusable. I'd better replace the other pawl springs too. They're .011 inch wire. I have some .012 guitar strings, they'll do.

3speedslow 09-15-17 08:28 AM

@BigChief after you're done with it, it will sing a pretty tune!

Velocivixen 09-15-17 08:37 AM

@BigChief - I love it! It will be fine. FYI a Dremel tool with a small stainless steel wire brush attatchment does with Nedra with stuff like that. Wear a mask though, otherwise you'll inhale rust.

rhm 09-15-17 09:16 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19863134)
... I'd better replace the other pawl springs too. They're .011 inch wire. I have some .012 guitar strings, they'll do.

I'd appreciate a description of how you do this! If you can manage photos, that would be great; but whatever.


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