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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 05-18-18 06:58 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20346455)
I'll take my Sprite out for my morning ride after chores. There's a steep spot I usually walk. I'll try mashing my way up in low and report back later. It might help determine if slipping is inherent to the design or not. I don't use the hub with the bell crank engaged hardly at all. I love the medium ratio spread with the left side disengaged and have no use at all for the 50% increase top gear.

I don't ride my 5 speed as often as I should but I swapped out the original dual shifters for the dual "throttle" style that I quite like.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7b29ae938b.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1f8e34ba5a.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...46d98b379f.jpg

BigChief 05-18-18 07:56 AM

It stayed firmly in low gear. Not really a fair test though. I'm not half the rider I used to be. Still, I'm 180 lbs and I was standing and putting my weight onto those crank arms. Slipping out of low doesn't seem to be an issue with at least this one S5 hub. Let's just say it's geezer proof anyway.

gster 05-18-18 09:20 AM

I was having a little trouble with the non drive side crank on this recent project. 1969 Robin Hood.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae7b4d0ee0.jpg
It had a slight "skip". It appears that the cotter had been drilled out but a fresh pin seems to have cured the problem.
A few other bugs to work out but otherwise a nice Semi Scorcher.

desconhecido 05-18-18 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20346432)
I figure that a slipping low gear under load on a steep hill is Sturmey Archerís way of telling me I should walk!

Is your 5 speed hub a 5 speed from the start or is it a modified 4 speed? Is the low gear slipping thing a matter of fine adjustment or is it inherent to the hubs, do you think?

I have an FG hub bought a couple years ago from a forum member with plans to put it on one of the Raleigh Super Course MKIIs that we have around here. Finally got it built into a wheel last week using a Dyad rim, but other projects have intervened. The Super Course seems to me to be the ideal candidate for this sort of thing given the absence of a derailleur hanger.

dweenk 05-18-18 12:16 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20345994)
I got that one from Mark Stonich/BIkeSmith Design, and he retapped it for Raleigh-specific threading.

Other than having the Shimano bell crank re-tapped, were any other modifications required?

Salubrious 05-18-18 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20346349)
i donít have much experience with S5 hubs, but slipping in lowest gear has been a problem with various 4-speed S-A hubs Iíve ridden (FW and FM).

I've got several of both the FW and FM hubs (and prefer the FW). They never slip in any gear unless the toggle chain is too loose. Sometimes it takes some finesse to get it into low.

BigChief 05-18-18 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20346766)
I was having a little trouble with the non drive side crank on this recent project. 1969 Robin Hood.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...ae7b4d0ee0.jpg
It had a slight "skip". It appears that the cotter had been drilled out but a fresh pin seems to have cured the problem.
A few other bugs to work out but otherwise a nice Semi Scorcher.

That looks really nice. I'm developing an even deeper appreciation for these stripped down semi scorchers. A very handy and fun ride. Without fenders, You can take off the wheels and fit the bike in the back seat of a small car, you can fix anything in your back yard, the wheels are super sturdy and the tires are a good compromise for less than perfect road conditions. Even if you do crash and bend something, you can generally just bend it back. The AW hub is incredibly reliable and the bike has quick responsive handling. I think I need to make another!!

Cute Boy Horse 05-18-18 04:10 PM

Finally got sick of my terrible 80s rectangular headlight and decided to go for a proper bullet one. Ones in the store are terrible 1LED battery blinkies or else extremely cheap looking. All the real Sturmey Archer lights on ebay were rusted and postage UK to Netherlands was through the roof. Only choice left was one of those 12V 5.5W dynamo kits direct from China.

https://s7.postimg.cc/pfl7lbbez/IMAG0453.jpg
https://s7.postimg.cc/7cs4u3na3/IMAG0456.jpg
https://s7.postimg.cc/6n9chq7az/IMAG0446.jpg

The dynamo is trash. The spring loaded part got damaged in the post and the roller is on there at a weird angle. It makes a horrible loud noise and vibrates the whole bike so bad at five miles an hour you think it's going to fall to bits.

The headlamp itself is really nice though. It doesn't have any kind of focus control like Sturmey's 50s lights, but it's got a separate high and low beam.

I think with some LEDs put in and a DBU it's going to be perfect.

EDIT: Around midnight I gave it a go, and with some adjustment I got the sound and vibration to a more tolerable level. The big 5.5W bulb gives out the same amount of light as my 1W LED did in the old lamp, only more evenly spread, and with a really warm orange tone. It's honestly incredibly cozy. I think what I'll do is I'll put a 2W filament in the rear housing and power that off of the dynohub.

I could also still go with a LED conversion, either from the dynohub or use an actually good bottle dyno, and get the bike silent again, but I'm starting to enjoy the sound. It's like I've got a motor on here.

gster 05-19-18 05:52 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20347559)
That looks really nice. I'm developing an even deeper appreciation for these stripped down semi scorchers. A very handy and fun ride. Without fenders, You can take off the wheels and fit the bike in the back seat of a small car, you can fix anything in your back yard, the wheels are super sturdy and the tires are a good compromise for less than perfect road conditions. Even if you do crash and bend something, you can generally just bend it back. The AW hub is incredibly reliable and the bike has quick responsive handling. I think I need to make another!!

Thanks, I have to agree with you.I'm still having a couple of issues with the Robin Hood but my previous semi (Glider) is an absolute pleasure to ride.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...288dffc140.jpg
The bike is light and responsive.Virtually silent. No rattling fenders and chain guard.I had it out last week for a full day of city errands and other that getting caught in the rain it was perfect. This one has a 19 or 20 cog (I have to check) and the gearing is just right for me.
I find that the fenders and chain guards on these bikes are generally pretty ratty by now and aren't worth the effort to restore.

The Robin Hood has 2 issues to address.
1-the bike is not tracking well. The front end wanders. Not sure why, Everything is straight and appears true. It has a 26 x 1 1/4 rim up front.
2-it doesn't want to engage in first gear. The hub (1965) appeared good but I didn't take it apart.Cable is new and seems properly adjusted.
I'll fiddle with it some more and if that fails I'll have a look inside.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...54fbdfd459.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 05-19-18 06:48 AM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20347583)

Handsome bike whatever the headlight.

BigChief 05-19-18 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20348272)
Thanks, I have to agree with you.I'm still having a couple of issues with the Robin Hood but my previous semi (Glider) is an absolute pleasure to ride.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...288dffc140.jpg
The bike is light and responsive.Virtually silent. No rattling fenders and chain guard.I had it out last week for a full day of city errands and other that getting caught in the rain it was perfect. This one has a 19 or 20 cog (I have to check) and the gearing is just right for me.
I find that the fenders and chain guards on these bikes are generally pretty ratty by now and aren't worth the effort to restore.

The Robin Hood has 2 issues to address.
1-the bike is not tracking well. The front end wanders. Not sure why, Everything is straight and appears true. It has a 26 x 1 1/4 rim up front.
2-it doesn't want to engage in first gear. The hub (1965) appeared good but I didn't take it apart.Cable is new and seems properly adjusted.
I'll fiddle with it some more and if that fails I'll have a look inside.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...54fbdfd459.jpg

Have you done the string test? I know, it's real back yard technology, but it works. I've used it in the past along with some highly precise 2x4 cold setting to fix wandering 3 speeds in the past.

Cute Boy Horse 05-19-18 11:37 AM

I've found the easiest way to check for a crooked frame, even before the string test, is to ride in a straight line at a decent pace and look down. If the stays are off to one side, then from your perspective on the saddle the entire frame will look the same number of degrees off. With cars they call it crabbing, it's like you're driving sideways.

nlerner 05-19-18 12:29 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 20346978)
Is your 5 speed hub a 5 speed from the start or is it a modified 4 speed? Is the low gear slipping thing a matter of fine adjustment or is it inherent to the hubs, do you think?

I have an FG hub bought a couple years ago from a forum member with plans to put it on one of the Raleigh Super Course MKIIs that we have around here. Finally got it built into a wheel last week using a Dyad rim, but other projects have intervened. The Super Course seems to me to be the ideal candidate for this sort of thing given the absence of a derailleur hanger.

It's a "native" 5-speed S-A hub, not a conversion (which I've also done--that's why I had the parts from Mark Stonich). And I've converted many a SuperCourse to IGH over the years--they are a great platform for experimentation.


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20347170)
Other than having the Shimano bell crank re-tapped, were any other modifications required?

None. Finding the proper-sized push rod for the bell crank was one problem to solve; I've used a nail trimmed down to size in the past, but for this one an old drill bit was exactly the right size.


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20347178)
I've got several of both the FW and FM hubs (and prefer the FW). They never slip in any gear unless the toggle chain is too loose. Sometimes it takes some finesse to get it into low.

Yeah, that's likely the issue. I need to attend to the adjustment at the indicator.

BigChief 05-19-18 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by Cute Boy Horse (Post 20348803)
I've found the easiest way to check for a crooked frame, even before the string test, is to ride in a straight line at a decent pace and look down. If the stays are off to one side, then from your perspective on the saddle the entire frame will look the same number of degrees off. With cars they call it crabbing, it's like you're driving sideways.

I missed in his post about the 26x 1 1/4 front rim. Although, I'm still suspecting frame alignment may be involved. No big deal on a good ole steel Raleigh. A string, a 2x4, a ruler and a couple of nuts and threaded rods to check the dropouts after cold setting the stays are all you need.

Cute Boy Horse 05-19-18 12:57 PM

I shouldn't expect mismatched wheel size to mess with the handling when they're this similar, though, stranger things have happened.

gster 05-19-18 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20348435)
Have you done the string test? I know, it's real back yard technology, but it works. I've used it in the past along with some highly precise 2x4 cold setting to fix wandering 3 speeds in the past.

String Test?
Tell me more.
I've spent the day unsuccessfully installing a new fuel pump on a 73 914....
I thought it was plumbed correctly but the car runs like sh*t.
I'm on the 914 forum looking for help.
That is why I like fixing bicycles.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4965b6605c.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...56232fe68b.jpg

BigChief 05-19-18 04:56 PM

Gotta love youtube. I figured I'd find it there.

BigChief 05-19-18 04:57 PM

And even alignment

paulb_in_bkln 05-19-18 05:18 PM

I wonder if I have even one bike that is straight. Maybe I am better off if I don't know.

SirMike1983 05-19-18 05:25 PM

On the original S5, it is possible to partially catch the Bottom gear, but then have it kick out while riding. The non-drive side cable with tighten enough to engage the gear, but then it does not go full-tight such that the gear "locks" in place. When the Bottom is locked in place, you'll feel a definite "click" while shifting into it.

One way to help make sure it gets locked in place is to "walk" the pedals forward gently while pulling on the non-drive side stick until you feel it "lock" into place. If you don't feel the lock-up, it may not be fully in gear and may kick back out under load.

This is especially a problem if the non-dive indicator is not adjusted tightly enough - you'll get full throw on the stick just before reaching that "lock in" point.

The original type S5 is a fun hub, but it's definitely a quirky thing compared to the modern stuff.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VTL9UKCWZ...708_123114.jpg

gster 05-19-18 05:41 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20349246)
And even alignment
alignment

Both videos very helpful.
Thanks

BigChief 05-19-18 10:23 PM

I'm glad I watched them too. I've never seen the proper way to measure frame alignment. I've only known the string method. I like his home made tool. One thing he didn't show was the home made tool for dropout alignment. It's just a couple pieces of threaded rod, 4 nuts and 4 washers. As a bonus, the threaded rod comes in 3 foot lengths so there's plenty left over to make a fork spreader which I think is an essential tool for 3 speeders. Some of those Raleigh forks are just way too tight.

johnnyspaghetti 05-19-18 11:29 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20349130)
String Test?
Tell me more.
I've spent the day unsuccessfully installing a new fuel pump on a 73 914....
I thought it was plumbed correctly but the car runs like sh*t.
I'm on the 914 forum looking for help.
That is why I like fixing bicycles.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4965b6605c.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...56232fe68b.jpg

You need fuel and spark...Have you checked the fuel pick up in the tank?

gster 05-20-18 06:19 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 20349675)
You need fuel and spark...Have you checked the fuel pick up in the tank?

I thought about it last night and seemed to have solved the issue.
I've replaced the original 3 port pump ($1400.00 US plus shipping) with
a 2 port pump ($100.00) there was an orphaned return line that needed to be plumbed back into the
loop.
The return line is now just ahead of the filter and all seems good..
I just need to tidy up the lines and take it out for a spin.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0915b28eaf.jpg

gster 05-20-18 07:19 AM

OT
I've re routed the fuel return line (from engine) back to the pump input ahead of the filter.
Seems to run good and no leaks!
Now to get back to fixing 3 speeds!
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9be1a3779c.jpg

paulb_in_bkln 05-20-18 07:46 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 20349285)
On the original S5, it is possible to partially catch the Bottom gear, but then have it kick out while riding. The non-drive side cable with tighten enough to engage the gear, but then it does not go full-tight such that the gear "locks" in place. When the Bottom is locked in place, you'll feel a definite "click" while shifting into it.

Not familiar with these. In Sheldon's article he seems to be saying that when both sides are pulled tight it's functioning like an AW hub. So the benefit of a lower first gear would happen by using a bigger cog. ??? Have I understood this correctly?

browngw 05-20-18 07:57 AM

Got to get to work fixing the steering column support bushing (headset?) on my British 5 speed roadster. It means squeezing under the dash and reaching up for the firewall. Sorry, @gster made me do it!
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...966b6ae840.jpg

BigChief 05-20-18 08:59 AM

I can't remember the last time I saw a 914 on the road. Amazing how fast time seems to go as you get older. It didn't used to be difficult to find old 3 speeds from the 50s. It wasn't uncommon to see fun things like bug eyed Sprites in town.
Times change and cars might be better in many ways, but they all look the same to me. Funny, all these years later I still remember standing in a parking lot with some friends on a motorcycle ride break when this pretty blonde waved at us from a gleaming red MGA. That car boosted her creds with us tenfold.

gster 05-20-18 09:37 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20349973)
Got to get to work fixing the steering column support bushing (headset?) on my British 5 speed roadster. It means squeezing under the dash and reaching up for the firewall. Sorry, @gster made me do it!
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...966b6ae840.jpg

Hey!
Don't blame me!
Nice looking car.
That fuel pump was on my fix list since last summer.
Somehow the time and patience just got away from me.
I just got back from a good hour long road test and all is right with the car.

paulb_in_bkln 05-20-18 09:39 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20350069)
I can't remember the last time I saw a 914 on the road. Amazing how fast time seems to go as you get older. It didn't used to be difficult to find old 3 speeds from the 50s. It wasn't uncommon to see fun things like bug eyed Sprites in town.

I too miss all the furrin oldies, the Simcas, the Renaults, Sprites, Spitfires and TR4s, Citroens, Fiats, and even the rattle of the original Beetle's flat four.


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