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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 02-13-19 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by raleighroadster (Post 20791682)
Sorry, forgot, that is a seatpost off a superbe. The original seatpost was too tall on the narrow top part for the brooks saddle to not hit, as the brooks saddle is lower. Sharp eyes! Maybe I should just shorten the original seatpost to be more authentic ??!!

I'm always collecting small details about Raleighs. It's a hobby. Now I'm wondering if all pre-war Raleighs had the seat post you describe. The 51 Rudge is the oldest Raleigh I've had. I noticed that the seat post had that gray finish rather than bright chrome. I was thinking it may be a feature that could be tied to a timeline.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by raleighroadster (Post 20790107)
1st ride with a brooks saddle today . So much better then the old creaky mattress saddle that came on the bike. 40 minutes , 50 degrees, sunny. Tomorrow 30 degrees with 30 mph winds! 1939 raleigh sports. All original except shift cable , grips, and tires/tubes. Original paint with all the decals intact. Stored inside 100 % of the time. A one owner bike, bought it from the son of the engineer who owned it . It sat in his basement for 15 years, tires melted into the concrete

I am wowed by the idea of owning a bike from 1939. My only ambivalence is about all the trim the bikes are loaded with; the full chain case and the fenders especially. Lately I find I'm enjoying riding the Rudge where I removed the partial chain case and fenders. Obviously not on rain days. It's not so much the weight, but the bike is much quieter and less vibration comes through the handlebars.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieAG (Post 20792099)
Here's my trio of English 3 speeds:
Here is my next acquisition - a 1968 Raleigh Sports. I got it from a guy at a bike swap meet for $25 plus a NOS Suntour derailler I had bought off of eBay (for my mid 80s Schwinn 10 speed that it turned out I didn't need). It wasn't complete needing brakes and cables etc. I've had it for about 5 years and not gotten very far with it. A kind soul on here donated some parts to complete it, but it's been frustrating and I lost interest a number of times. It did come with a Brooks saddle. I've never been able to get it to shift properly so I suspect the SA hub is defective. I tried WD40 and oiling it, but no good. It also clunks when riding it, so I suspect the bottom bracket needs attention - something I've never done and don't have the proper tools for. I did get it to shift okay when I put the rear wheel and shifter/cable from my Robin Hood (see below), but it still clunked so it's time to move on.

It can almost certainly be resurrected so I hope you'll find it a home and not abandon it.

BigChief 02-13-19 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20792500)
I am wowed by the idea of owning a bike from 1939. My only ambivalence is about all the trim the bikes are loaded with; the full chain case and the fenders especially. Lately I find I'm enjoying riding the Rudge where I removed the partial chain case and fenders. Obviously not on rain days. It's not so much the weight, but the bike is much quieter and less vibration comes through the handlebars.

I also enjoy riding stripped down roadsters, but I am enjoying my full dress/ dyno hub 51 too. There's no was around it...you need both.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 10:04 AM

This is off topic and I'm sorry but... I just patched a flat tire and while I had the tire off I thought I'd give the wheel, pretty filthy from this weather, a rinse. As I have said I live in a NYC apartment. I don't have a workshop or garage or basement where I can work or a slop sink. Oh god what an awful mess I made. If there was a woman around here I'd be thrown out in the street with a cardboard box to live in. I had to get out the Goo Gone Kitchen Degreaser spray, the strongest cleaner I have, to make things almost right and it still took more than a half hour and it's not perfect. It's like the plot of The Cat In the Hat Comes Back. I am really ashamed of myself.

BigChief 02-13-19 10:29 AM

Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792836)
Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

Thank you Big Chief! I put in some more time and have got things set pretty much right.

Ged117 02-13-19 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792836)
Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

Hi BigChief. Regarding the seat post:

When I pulled my hitherto untouched 1950 Raleigh's seat post out, the finish below the grease line was absolutely perfect chrome. It looked like Johnny had just installed it. I'll post a photo with my update blurb after this weekend's activities.

gster 02-13-19 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792769)
I also enjoy riding stripped down roadsters, but I am enjoying my full dress/ dyno hub 51 too. There's no was around it...you need both.

Agreed.

RobbieAG 02-13-19 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20792420)
A Terrific Trio!
You can service the BB without special tools.
The lock ring can be loosened/removed with a flat heat screwdriver and a hammer,
As always it's the cotters that can mess you up.

I suppose since I have three of these bikes, I can justify spending some money on specialized tools. I do find it frustrating working on bicycles that there are so many specialized tools. Every bottom bracket is different; every freewheel is different etc. I work on my five cars and two motorcycles and don't have to worry about nearly as many model specific tools that may only get used once or twice.



Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20792508)
It can almost certainly be resurrected so I hope you'll find it a home and not abandon it.

I'll either sell it as is for a fair price, or keep it around for learning, experimenting and maybe spare parts. I am limited on space though.

dweenk 02-14-19 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20778973)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6405959ea0.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e2416c11c.jpg
A fellow bike guy called this morning to see if I was still interested in a bike he has had for 22years or so. It is a Belgium Royal Nord President believed to be circa 1967. I looked at a couple of years ago and took a couple of poor phone shots. At that time he didn't want to part with it, but now has changed his mind. We will have to get to a lower price but I think I want the bike. The green/marble paintjob and the chainguard are fascinating . Now to the English part. Brampton Speedy Switch and hub? Are these similar to the Sturmey Archer?

I have a Speedy Switch shifter that is marked "Made in Japan" and has no mention of Brampton on it. It is a dead ringer for an S/A or S/A licensed unit.

nlerner 02-15-19 10:22 AM

Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

BigChief 02-15-19 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20796000)
Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

There's a good shot of the seat tube lug which dates it to 55 or 56. Still has it's double quill pedals. I'd say it could be a worthy project. Rims look iffy though.

dweenk 02-15-19 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20796000)
Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

Is the drive side crank bent? The dent in the chain guard seems to be at the very point of crank rotation. Just asking.

browngw 02-15-19 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20796586)
Is the drive side crank bent? The dent in the chain guard seems to be at the very point of crank rotation. Just asking.

The '72 Root Beer Express I just finished had the same denting in the chainguard obviously from the pedal but not a bent crank arm,https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3ea617807.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3754ec9a2d.jpg
but a loose poorly adjusted chain guard. A very patient car restorer friend of mine was able to straighten it pretty good with very little loss of paint.

paulb_in_bkln 02-16-19 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20796781)
The '72 Root Beer Express I just finished had the same denting in the chainguard obviously from the pedal but not a bent crank arm,https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3ea617807.jpg

but a loose poorly adjusted chain guard. A very patient car restorer friend of mine was able to straighten it pretty good with very little loss of paint.

I wondered why a new shifter cable came with a full length housing when both my bikes run the housing just a short way to a fulcrum stop at the front of the bike. I see this bike has the housing run to the rear of the bike and no pulley. Is there any advantage? Because when I eventually set up my Peugeot mixte conversion, I could do it either way (but I won't need a pulley as the long diagonal tubes allow the shift cable to go straight to the dropout).

BigChief 02-16-19 06:36 AM

Good job on the chainguard. Those are tricky to work on since you can't get a big piece of wood behind the dent. I see you touched up the chip in the paint too. Nice work, looks very good.

mkeller234 02-16-19 06:48 AM


BigChief 02-16-19 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20797175)
I wondered why a new shifter cable came with a full length housing when both my bikes run the housing just a short way to a fulcrum stop at the front of the bike. I see this bike has the housing run to the rear of the bike and no pulley. Is there any advantage? Because when I eventually set up my Peugeot mixte conversion, I could do it either way (but I won't need a pulley as the long diagonal tubes allow the shift cable to go straight to the dropout).

This was one of Raleigh's cost cutting measures. It first appeared on lower cost models and eventually appeared on the Sports in the later 70s. I never cared for it. The less friction, the better on SA shifters.

paulb_in_bkln 02-16-19 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20797192)
This was one of Raleigh's cost cutting measures. It first appeared on lower cost models and eventually appeared on the Sports in the later 70s. I never cared for it. The less friction, the better on SA shifters.

Yeah, I was thinking something very similar. Thanks.

browngw 02-16-19 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20797175)
I wondered why a new shifter cable came with a full length housing when both my bikes run the housing just a short way to a fulcrum stop at the front of the bike. I see this bike has the housing run to the rear of the bike and no pulley. Is there any advantage? Because when I eventually set up my Peugeot mixte conversion, I could do it either way (but I won't need a pulley as the long diagonal tubes allow the shift cable to go straight to the dropout).

It would appear that a lot of https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cec58b1a8e.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...07eaf13b94.jpg
bikes intended for the Canadian market came with the full length cable and no pulley in the early seventies. I did is this way simply because it came that way and felt no need to change it. I have a '71 Robin Hood the same way and have rebuilt various Raleigh built variants like Supercycles that used the full cable.

gster 02-16-19 09:21 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20797317)
It would appear that a lot of https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cec58b1a8e.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...07eaf13b94.jpg
bikes intended for the Canadian market came with the full length cable and no pulley in the early seventies. I did is this way simply because it came that way and felt no need to change it. I have a '71 Robin Hood the same way and have rebuilt various Raleigh built variants like Supercycles that used the full cable.

I prefer the pulley and exposed cable system.
I think it looks better and as stated, probably performs better.
I just cut and modify the new replacement cables to suit.

paulb_in_bkln 02-16-19 10:00 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20797340)
I prefer the pulley and exposed cable system.
I think it looks better and as stated, probably performs better.
I just cut and modify the new replacement cables to suit.

That's what I did when I installed the new cable on my step thru and I wondered why the long housing and didn't actually get it until now.

browngw 02-16-19 11:04 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20797340)
I prefer the pulley and exposed cable system.
I think it looks better and as stated, probably performs better.
I just cut and modify the new replacement cables to suit.

I have done that as well on other bikes including my DL1 and the gold Supercycle and it looks more "vintage" but not sure I like it better. The Supercycle was sold last year because the frame felt a little small for me.https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d11cbb68b0.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...babce502bb.jpg

BigChief 02-16-19 11:32 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20797402)
That's what I did when I installed the new cable on my step thru and I wondered why the long housing and didn't actually get it until now.

Yeah, there's a whole bunch of different aftermarket cables out there for various bikes with 3 speed hubs. Different cable and housing lengths. Some with ball end ferrules, some with threaded ferrules. Some of them have crimped on ends that are too fat to fit properly into the shifters and can be stuck when you try to remove them. The newer ones have cast on ends that fit nicely in the shifter and plain ends intended for pinch bolt adapters to connect to the indicator pin.

sd5782 02-17-19 08:31 AM

Loose bearing assembly at factory ????
 
I am doing bearing lube on a 64. Reassembly of the bottom bracket with the loose balls was fairly easily accomplished with laying the bike on one side, and dropping the balls into the fixed cup loaded with grease, and etc, etc, etc for head etc, etc, etc.

My question is, how did the factory do it? Kind of hard to envision workmen after a long day or a hard weekend showing the same concentration as a hobbyist working on his valued vintage ride. I kind of picture the factory floor littered with globs of greasy ball bearings and new bikes missing a few on occasion.

BigChief 02-17-19 09:55 PM


Originally Posted by sd5782 (Post 20798704)
I am doing bearing lube on a 64. Reassembly of the bottom bracket with the loose balls was fairly easily accomplished with laying the bike on one side, and dropping the balls into the fixed cup loaded with grease, and etc, etc, etc for head etc, etc, etc.

My question is, how did the factory do it? Kind of hard to envision workmen after a long day or a hard weekend showing the same concentration as a hobbyist working on his valued vintage ride. I kind of picture the factory floor littered with globs of greasy ball bearings and new bikes missing a few on occasion.

Pretty sure both cups were packed with grease and bearings, the fixed cup screwed in, spindle set in place then the adjustable cup. What I do, since it's such a bear to remove the fixed cup, is to load grease and bearings in the adjustable cup, lay some grease in the fixed cup with a stick, put grease on the drive side of the spindle and lay the 11 bearings in the grease. The grease holds the bearings on the spindle. Then I thread the spindle through the fixed cub and hold the end in place after it comes through while I screw in the adjustable cup.

gster 02-18-19 07:20 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20799884)
Pretty sure both cups were packed with grease and bearings, the fixed cup screwed in, spindle set in place then the adjustable cup. What I do, since it's such a bear to remove the fixed cup, is to load grease and bearings in the adjustable cup, lay some grease in the fixed cup with a stick, put grease on the drive side of the spindle and lay the 11 bearings in the grease. The grease holds the bearings on the spindle. Then I thread the spindle through the fixed cub and hold the end in place after it comes through while I screw in the adjustable cup.

I'm sure they had a "system" at the factory that sped up the assembly.
I leave the fixed cup in place and lay the bike flat, fixed cup down with a black (t shirt) cloth underneath.
I load from underneath and the insert spindle and other cup.
It's a little time consuming but worth it.

A repacked BB should last another 30 years or so.

Or, just stuff an old sock in there as I found on my 1953 BSA..
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9bedc2e84f.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...503daf7333.jpg
This could be an example of the very rare "Sock Option" that was briefly offered in the early '50's.

gster 02-18-19 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20800138)
I'm sure they had a "system" at the factory that sped up the assembly.
I leave the fixed cup in place and lay the bike flat, fixed cup down with a black (t shirt) clothe underneath.
I load from underneath and the insert spindle and other cup.
It's a little time consuming but worth it.
I repacked BB should last another 30 years or so.

Or, just stuff an old sock in there as I found on my 1953 BSA..
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9bedc2e84f.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...503daf7333.jpg
This could be an example of the very rare "Sock Option" that was briefly offered in the early '50's.

The BSA Factory Socks are a higher quality compared to the aftermarket socks which tend to be synthetic.
You really need a good wool sock in there.
It's worth the extra cost.

BigChief 02-18-19 08:11 AM

Yes, a 100% wool argyle would be period correct here.


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