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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

waverley610 03-11-10 09:04 AM

Thanks David, I only rode out to take the photo's before starting disassembly, a 22" frame is on the small side for me but like riding a pony instead of a horse? Nippy!?!
more images: http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562...7623572509816/

Chas

noglider 03-11-10 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 10510130)
Here is one I cleaned up recently. It's a 1970 Raleigh Sports that was built in Malaysia. The AW hub does not have a date code and the trigger shifter is blank. I guess the Malaysian built version did not have a lamp bracket originally.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2701/...5c8f9506_o.jpg


Matt, you do the MOST impressive clean-up, shine-up work of anyone. Do you have a web page or document on how you do it? I have a lot to learn from you.

I'm not sure, but I think not all Sports models had the headlight bracket.

The Malaysian bike is interesting. I don't remember ever seeing one. The lack of a date stamp is spooky.

I noticed in the early 80's that the Chinese clones of the DL-1 were made of crappy steel, e.g. the nuts and bolts had a tendency to strip and round off. Have you noticed anything similar with the Malaysian ones?

And what kind of tires are those?

mkeller234 03-11-10 09:52 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10510876)
Matt, you do the MOST impressive clean-up, shine-up work of anyone. Do you have a web page or document on how you do it? I have a lot to learn from you.

I'm not sure, but I think not all Sports models had the headlight bracket.

The Malaysian bike is interesting. I don't remember ever seeing one. The lack of a date stamp is spooky.

I noticed in the early 80's that the Chinese clones of the DL-1 were made of crappy steel, e.g. the nuts and bolts had a tendency to strip and round off. Have you noticed anything similar with the Malaysian ones?

And what kind of tires are those?

Thank you Tom, that is very flattering. I don't really do anything special or out of the ordinary, I just spend a good amount of time on them. I use white vinegar to remove rust from steel. It can take me a week or even a month to finish one bike so I am on the slow side. I disassemble every single component and tackle them one by one, I grease every single thread when I put the parts back together. It's so so nice when your barrel adjuster move freely!

I did notice that some of the bolts seemed like they may be delicate. The "R" bolts were a little bit rounded off when I found it but I don't know where they were manufactured. The tires are NOS Cheng shins that I found at my favorite dusty LBS, I was hesitant but in the end couldn't resist them. The same LBS has a pink and gum version too, I need to find a bike for them.

It's tempting to pull the tires off and hoard them but I don't have anything to replace them with.

Sixty Fiver 03-11-10 10:04 AM


Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 10510995)
I don't really do anything special or out of the ordinary, I just spend a good amount of time on them. I use white vinegar to remove rust from steel. It can take me a week or even a month to finish one bike so I am on the slow side. I disassemble every single component and tackle them one by one, I grease every single thread when I put the parts back together. It's so so nice when your barrel adjuster move freely!

Nope... nothing out of the ordinary at all.

:)

wahoonc 03-11-10 10:06 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10510876)
Matt, you do the MOST impressive clean-up, shine-up work of anyone. Do you have a web page or document on how you do it? I have a lot to learn from you.

I'm not sure, but I think not all Sports models had the headlight bracket.

The Malaysian bike is interesting. I don't remember ever seeing one. The lack of a date stamp is spooky.

I noticed in the early 80's that the Chinese clones of the DL-1 were made of crappy steel, e.g. the nuts and bolts had a tendency to strip and round off. Have you noticed anything similar with the Malaysian ones?

And what kind of tires are those?

I have one of the Malaysian Sports as well as half a dozen other Raleighs. The build and material quality is certainly as good as the similar year Nottingham ones. The one I have has been ridden heavily and is still a serviceable bike. The rims on the Malaysian ones are Endrick pattern which are not as heavy as the Westricks that are used on the regular Sports. The only bikes I can find pictured in catalogs without the head light bracket are the children's and the Tween's bikes. Models like the Colt and Space Rider.

FWIW I am thinking that the Malaysian Sports was marketed as a Sports Standard which would have put it below the regular Sports that came with an air pump, headlight bracket and Westrick rims. They may have been attempting to hit a price point. I have seen 4 Malaysian built Sports and none of them had date codes on the hub, air pump pegs or the headlight bracket. Unfortunately most of the Raleigh Catalog scans that I have found concentrate on the light weights and not the 3 speed bikes.

Aaron :)

rhm 03-11-10 10:10 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 10511086)
I have seen 4 Malaysian built Sports and none of them had date codes on the hub.

Do those hubs say "Made in England" on them?

mkeller234 03-11-10 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 10511077)
Nope... nothing out of the ordinary at all.

:)

Ha, well maybe the vinegar is a bit unusual. Of course I owe a lot of what I know and do to the members of this forum. There is an old children's book that I used to love called "Monkey See, Monkey do". I must have taken it to heart because that about sums up my time spent here.

wahoonc 03-11-10 10:58 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 10511107)
Do those hubs say "Made in England" on them?

I believe they do. I will take a look when I get home this weekend, or perhaps mkeller234 can look at his and check for sure.

Aaron :)

mkeller234 03-11-10 11:58 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 10511342)
I believe they do. I will take a look when I get home this weekend, or perhaps mkeller234 can look at his and check for sure.

Aaron :)

Mine just says "England" is that different then norm?

You can see it in this picture, in the upper right hand corner of the logo:
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/...ca7d6913_o.jpg

Sixty Fiver 03-11-10 12:09 PM

It wasn't English but it was a 3 speed...

A young lady came into the co-op to get her trike fixed as some punks had taken it on a joy ride and the Worksman trike she uses to get around was already missing it's shifter, cable, and fulcrum stop.

Her friends "stole" her trike last year so the could have it professionally re-done as it was looking pretty battered after almost 2 decades of use but had not been able to find a shop here that could set up a Shimano 3 speed or could get the right parts.

She has to be really strong as I'd have trouble pedaling a trike that was stuck in third gear all day... she did say she had to walk it up small hills but that just would not do.

Found a Shimano 3 speed trigger, installed a new 3/16 bearing so it would index and now the bike shifts through all three gears. I had to fabricate a fulcrum stop as the frame tubes were larger than any stop I had... will get pictures of the bike when it comes back (cause it's sweet) as we are looking at upgrading the drive to an 8 speed.

The lady has a disability that hinders her ability to walk, but she rides... and that wider range will let her travel farther then she ever imagined.

buck mulligan 03-11-10 12:17 PM


Originally Posted by mkeller234 (Post 10510995)
It can take me a week or even a month to finish one bike so I am on the slow side.

A week is slow? I've been working on mine for two months!

Sixty Fiver 03-11-10 12:19 PM

I still have to tackle the polishing on my old Raleigh and am thinking that this is how I will spend my Friday evening...

unterhausen 03-11-10 12:20 PM


Originally Posted by buck mulligan (Post 10511726)
A week is slow? I've been working on mine for two months!

I've been working on one bike for over 30 years

mkeller234 03-11-10 12:22 PM


Originally Posted by buck mulligan (Post 10511726)
A week is slow? I've been working on mine for two months!

Well, that is if I am excited and stay focused. I was comparing my speed to BigBossMan, according to him it's typically less than a day.

Sixty Fiver 03-11-10 12:34 PM

I can build a bike up from a naked frame in under 2 hours and be out test driving it but polishing parts is a time consuming process.

Ultrasonic cleaner ftw. :)

noglider 03-11-10 01:00 PM

Matt, 65er's point is that you disassemble each component and polish each piece, and that's unusual.

What do you do to get frames so shiny?

And are acidic cleaners, such as Simple Green, bad on things like anodized aluminum? (Not that you'd have anodized aluminum on an English three-speed!)

mkeller234 03-11-10 01:07 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10511950)
Matt, 65er's point is that you disassemble each component and polish each piece, and that's unusual.

What do you do to get frames so shiny?

And are acidic cleaners, such as Simple Green, bad on things like anodized aluminum? (Not that you'd have anodized aluminum on an English three-speed!)


For the frames I just wash them with car soap, then polish them with mequires scratch and wax with Liquid Glass. I put a test aluminum part in undiluted simple green and let it sit for about a day and that really buggered up the finish. I am sure it's fine if you use it then wash it off quickly. I just used dish soap and aluminum polish.

noglider 03-11-10 01:11 PM

OK, so would it be a good idea to put some diluted dish soap in a spray bottle and start using that rather than diluted Simple Green?

I'm going to switch from oxalic acid to lemon juice. I'm not cautious enough, and I'm going to kill myself with oxalic. I was making myself cough, and I wasn't using gloves. Also, my workshop is not ventilated.

Andrew F 03-11-10 01:45 PM


and I'm going to kill myself with oxalic. I was making myself cough, and I wasn't using gloves. Also, my workshop is not ventilated.

I don't think ventilating with Central NJ air would change anything but the lemon juice is a good idea....than add a bit vodka and you'll be set.:)

noglider 03-11-10 02:10 PM

Yeah, we don't have earthquakes or landslides or severe weather, but we have our pollution!

wahoonc 03-11-10 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by unterhausen (Post 10511739)
I've been working on one bike for over 30 years

I don't have any that have been hanging around quite that long, but I do have a helluva back log. I have at least two that are still malingering after 3-4 years.:o

Sometimes it takes a while to amass the necessary parts, other times other projects just take priority. I do the polish parts thing on some of the bikes I have, the alloy brakes are from my 1971 Twenty the steel ones from the 1964 AMF Hercules.



Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb30.webshots.com/45...500x500Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb11.webshots.com/47...500x500Q85.jpg

buck mulligan 03-11-10 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10511950)
Matt, 65er's point is that you disassemble each component and polish each piece, and that's unusual.

Speaking as someone whose bike is currently a bare frame leaning against a big Tupperware bin full of tiny parts in Ziplock bags, I certainly wish someone would have told me earlier that there was some other option!

AL NZ 03-12-10 01:00 AM


Originally Posted by waverley610 (Post 10510681)
Hello. I'd like to share a couple of images of my latest acquisition; very new to the vintage bike scene but had so much fun recalling a 1930's BSA last year that I just had to do it all again this time with a 1936 Rudge Whitworth that has a '39 AW hub.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=141070http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=141072http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=141071

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562...7623572509816/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8728562...7623572509816/

Great Rudge!
Lucky you. North Downs - whereabouts? I am in Abinger Common

mkeller234 03-12-10 01:17 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10512010)
OI'm going to switch from oxalic acid to lemon juice. I'm not cautious enough, and I'm going to kill myself with oxalic. I was making myself cough, and I wasn't using gloves. Also, my workshop is not ventilated.

I am 100% with you on that. I am too carefree with oxalic acid and I noticed how crummy I felt afterwards. This may sound odd, but it was comparable to the feeling of not eating for an entire day. Sort of nauseous with an soreness in your gut. It was enough to get me looking for other options and vinegar seemed friendly enough. Lemon juice and vinegar work just as well actually. I cannot tell a big difference between those two and oxalic acid in use.

waverley610 03-12-10 03:33 AM


Originally Posted by AL NZ (Post 10515012)
Great Rudge!
Lucky you. North Downs - whereabouts? I am in Abinger Common

Al.

I'm the other side of Dorking in Tadworth. Trouble with living on the downs everywhere is either up or down a bloomin' big hill! Think I was reading you were repatriating soon?

clubman 03-12-10 02:20 PM

A new C&V fan
 
My daughter Adelaide spotted this 73 Triumph Sports sitting in the shed and asked my to fix it up as a B-day gift. She turned 11 this week. I couldn't be prouder. This is her first test drive around the neighbours circular drive...otherwise she'd have her helmet on. She loves it and wants to ditch the Diamondback mtn bike. Yeah baby.

What a beautiful March day...feels like spring

Attachment 141259

gna 03-12-10 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 10517630)
My daughter Adelaide spotted this 73 Triumph Sports sitting in the shed and asked my to fix it up as a B-day gift. She turned 11 this week. I couldn't be prouder. This is her first test drive around the neighbours circular drive...otherwise she'd have her helmet on. She loves it and wants to ditch the Diamondback mtn bike. Yeah baby.

What a beautiful March day...feels like spring

Attachment 141259

Well done.

I have a 19" lady's Triumph, also a pretty blue, that I was going to give to my mother, but she doesn't want it. My daughter is four; wonder if I can hang onto it for 7 more years.

noglider 03-12-10 02:38 PM

A girl after my own heart! She looks great on the bike, and she looks tall, too.

Sixty Fiver 03-12-10 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 10517630)
My daughter Adelaide spotted this 73 Triumph Sports sitting in the shed and asked my to fix it up as a B-day gift. She turned 11 this week. I couldn't be prouder. This is her first test drive around the neighbours circular drive...otherwise she'd have her helmet on. She loves it and wants to ditch the Diamondback mtn bike. Yeah baby.

What a beautiful March day...feels like spring

Attachment 141259

Have you started shopping for a big bat yet ?

I'd stay away from vintage in this case and look for a good alloy one.

My oldest is daughter is 12...

southpawboston 03-12-10 02:48 PM

here's my "possibly 1951" raleigh DL1. it's an amalgam of various vintage DL1 parts, but when i got it both hubs were date-stamped 1951.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2568/...78cfbd99_b.jpg

the fenders, chaincase, rack and taillight are consistent with that era, but the frame seems to be a little newer, possibly 60s. there is no detectable serial number. plus, the DARE grips, front brake brackets and pedals date to the 70s. my guess is that the original frame got damaged at some point and the bike got rebuilt with a newer donor frame.


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