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-   -   Addiction 2021.4 (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=1239811)

Mojo31 10-25-21 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22282937)
At the wedding I met my nephew's new FiL, he looked pretty lanky so I asked if he was a cyclist. He said he rides an aluminum Trek Emonda several days a week, there is apparently a lake outside Dallas (I think it's Dallas but could have been Houston) he rides around it and says it's a 20 mile loop. I gave him kudos, so to speak.

There is a lake in the heart of Dallas that has a MUP around it and attracts a lot of bikes. That could be it. It's pretty crowded most of the time so I never go there. Rode it a lot when I was in school.

Lots of other lakes in the area, but I'm not aware of any with loops. Also, not familiar with Houston lakes at all.

WhyFi 10-25-21 01:05 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22282851)
For me, when riding a trainer without a distraction that makes me feel like I'm going somewhere I have great difficulty keeping my heart rate up. It takes a level of concentration which I find mentally exhausting. Then I tried "riding through" some ride videos a local cyclist had shot, and since they were roads I ride a lot, I know when the hard parts were, so on my dumb trainer I could replicate the difficulty by shifting to harder gears. Then I tried Zwift and a smart trainer, and I find that even better, at least in part because the shifting to easier gears when it gets harder is more intuitive. But there's also the thrill of the chase. When I was riding the Zwift Academy Finish Line ride yesterday, part of my motivation on the two climbs was catching and passing other riders. Same with the workouts - concentrating on catching and passing other riders made it easier to suffer.

Sure, but we're not talking about motivation or unfamiliarity with suffering - we're talking about a measurable and sometimes significant difference in work capacity between inside and outside. In my case, we're probably talking about a difference of at least 10% lower at FTP and probably worse at shorter durations.

datlas 10-25-21 01:10 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22282979)
There is a lake in the heart of Dallas that has a MUP around it and attracts a lot of bikes. That could be it. It's pretty crowded most of the time so I never go there. Rode it a lot when I was in school.

Lots of other lakes in the area, but I'm not aware of any with loops. Also, not familiar with Houston lakes at all.

I expect that's the one. I hope Texans will forgive me for confusing Houston with Dallas. I know they are NOT the same.

rjones28 10-25-21 01:16 PM


Originally Posted by sshakari (Post 22282887)
Been having issues with my real tubeless on my bike where they would not hold air for more than 2 days. I took the tire off and resealed it, changed to the orange sealant, but that did not help.
After that, I replaced the presta valve core a $5 item and BAM it worked like a charm. Was going to ride today, but its raining.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fd4c6e6796.jpg

An often neglected part of the tubeless system.

genejockey 10-25-21 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22282995)
Sure, but we're not talking about motivation or unfamiliarity with suffering - we're talking about a measurable and sometimes significant difference in work capacity between inside and outside. In my case, we're probably talking about a difference of at least 10% lower at FTP and probably worse at shorter durations.

I assume power is being measured with the same meter, similarly calibrated? I don't know what to make of that, but there's an article on the internet about it.

For me, with no power meter, there's really only RPE and HR to compare indoor and outdoor

genejockey 10-25-21 01:25 PM


Originally Posted by rjones28 (Post 22283013)
An often neglected part of the tubeless system.

Expensive rims, expensive tires, expensive sealant. Cheap-ass valve core.

Mojo31 10-25-21 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22283002)
I expect that's the one. I hope Texans will forgive me for confusing Houston with Dallas. I know they are NOT the same.

No forgiveness needed from me.

LAJ 10-25-21 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22282995)
Sure, but we're not talking about motivation or unfamiliarity with suffering - we're talking about a measurable and sometimes significant difference in work capacity between inside and outside. In my case, we're probably talking about a difference of at least 10% lower at FTP and probably worse at shorter durations.

At the beginning of "trainer season" I feel that's correct. Once there's time spent on it, I think it starts to creep up to very close to equal. Hell. I actually did a 1 hour FTP test on the trainer, and it was actually better than my outdoor effort. Likely because the only 1 hour steady road I have is a climb approaching Mt. Evans, and I top out near 10k by the time I'm done. Elevation plays a part in power, and lack thereof.

WhyFi 10-25-21 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22283033)
I assume power is being measured with the same meter, similarly calibrated?

Yup.

genejockey 10-25-21 01:32 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22283002)
I expect that's the one. I hope Texans will forgive me for confusing Houston with Dallas. I know they are NOT the same.

I have been to Houston. One day was enough to convince me I would never, ever want to live there. It's as if it were designed to actively discourage walking.

I was on a site visit with a contractor, and they offered to run a quick experiment to answer a question we had, while we went off to have lunch. They recommended a place a few blocks away, which we assumed meant walking distance. No, they said, you have to drive there. So we did, and had a nice lunch, but still had 2 hours to kill before we were due back to check on the results. So we asked our waiter if there was a bookstore around. There was one just down the block. We walked there. It was horrible, even though it was literally just down the block. There was no sidewalk. None. It was all parking lot or road, with only a thin grassy verge between them, clearly not meant for foot traffic.

That and I arrived at the hotel at 11PM in mid-October, and it was STILL 90 degrees out.

Mojo31 10-25-21 01:35 PM

Houston sucks. Plain and simple.

datlas 10-25-21 01:38 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22283040)
No forgiveness needed from me.

So my nephew and his bride, who got married 2 days ago, wrote their own vows. I recall that one of the few vows the husband took was he pledged to not mess with Texas.

datlas 10-25-21 01:39 PM

Speaking of Texas, whither Bah Humbug ? Is he on BF Hiatus again?

WhyFi 10-25-21 01:43 PM


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 22283043)
At the beginning of "trainer season" I feel that's correct. Once there's time spent on it, I think it starts to creep up to very close to equal.

Ugh, I can only hope. Last year didn't seem as bad, for whatever reason. I seem to recall doing 8-10min ~FTP intervals without much problem.... well, with the expected amount of problem :o The trainer is different, but the power meter is the same. The only other thing that I've changed is that the fan is closer to me (which means that it's further from the door and might be drawing in less fresh air...:foo:).


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 22283043)
Hell. I actually did a 1 hour FTP test on the trainer, and it was actually better than my outdoor effort. Likely because the only 1 hour steady road I have is a climb approaching Mt. Evans, and I top out near 10k by the time I'm done. Elevation plays a part in power, and lack thereof.

Yeah, I've had better results indoors in the past, but I chalked a lot of it up to the lack of lights/stop signs and less than ideal steady-state terrain in my area.

Eh, I'm prolly just gettin' fat and old. :50:

sshakari 10-25-21 01:44 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22283038)
Expensive rims, expensive tires, expensive sealant. Cheap-ass valve core.

valve core is indeed a ver inexpensive item. Difficult to diagnose the problem.

Mojo31 10-25-21 01:45 PM


Originally Posted by datlas (Post 22283060)
So my nephew and his bride, who got married 2 days ago, wrote their own vows. I recall that one of the few vows the husband took was he pledged to not mess with Texas.

Smart man.

BillyD 10-25-21 01:47 PM

One of these days I’m going to take a little time out to focus on replacing some of my wall art that I’ve grown tired of looking at. One of these days.

WhyFi 10-25-21 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by rjones28 (Post 22283013)
An often neglected part of the tubeless system.

I clean mine out every so often, but also keep a few new ones on-hand for when they get too gummed up. That's one of the other nice things about doing maintenance with sealant syringes - you've gotta take the core out anyway, so you might as well take a good look at it.

LAJ 10-25-21 01:49 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22283072)
Ugh, I can only hope. Last year didn't seem as bad, for whatever reason. I seem to recall doing 8-10min ~FTP intervals without much problem.... well, with the expected amount of problem :o The trainer is different, but the power meter is the same. The only other thing that I've changed is that the fan is closer to me (which means that it's further from the door and might be drawing in less fresh air...:foo:).



Yeah, I've had better results indoors in the past, but I chalked a lot of it up to the lack of lights/stop signs and less than ideal steady-state terrain in my area.

Eh, I'm prolly just gettin' fat and old. :50:


I know of people that train with oxygen. A bit over the top, but heck, if it floats their boat...

genejockey 10-25-21 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22283057)
Houston sucks. Plain and simple.

Much more succinct.

Mojo31 10-25-21 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by BillyD (Post 22283080)
One of these days Iím going to take a little time out to focus on replacing some of my wall art that Iíve grown tired of looking at. One of these days.

I've been told that every home must have a nude of some sort, whether that be a painting, artful photo, sculpture, etc.


Everyone except mine, that is.

MoAlpha 10-25-21 01:52 PM


Originally Posted by Mojo31 (Post 22283089)
I've been told that every home must have a nude of some sort, whether that be a painting, artful photo, sculpture, etc.


Everyone except mine, that is.

Neither does ours. No nudes is good nudes.

WhyFi 10-25-21 02:01 PM


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 22283084)
I know of people that train with oxygen. A bit over the top, but heck, if it floats their boat...

Man, that would feel like cheating.

MoAlpha 10-25-21 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by WhyFi (Post 22282628)
Man, trainer rides != outdoor rides

After futzing around with pairing this and that, I have my trainer set up to receive, re-broadcast and use my the power meter data as the reference. Even so, my performance is dramatically down vs outdoor rides; power/duration efforts that would be easy outside are pretty damn uncomfortable inside. I don't know if it's fatigue or a lack of cooling or if I'm just sucking all of the oxygen out of my small room, but damn - if I were this out of shape on the road, I'd be disheartened.

My FTP is about 10% lower on the trainer and it creeps up a little during the indoor season, as LAJ notes below.


Originally Posted by mvnsnd (Post 22282791)
It's not uncommon to have a different power indoors. I always feel riding the trainer is harder than outdoors too. Some of it might be cooling, but I think for me, some of it is the loss of sense of moving relative to the road.

As a guy who has studied reward, I thought of this theory, but it's such a big effect that I have serious doubts.


Originally Posted by LAJ (Post 22283043)
At the beginning of "trainer season" I feel that's correct. Once there's time spent on it, I think it starts to creep up to very close to equal. Hell. I actually did a 1 hour FTP test on the trainer, and it was actually better than my outdoor effort. Likely because the only 1 hour steady road I have is a climb approaching Mt. Evans, and I top out near 10k by the time I'm done. Elevation plays a part in power, and lack thereof.

This has happened to me both winters I've actually "trained" indoors, but my outdoor power falls at the same time and I think I'm somehow just adapting mechanically to the trainer and the dedicated bike.

Whatever the effect is from, it's real as hell and discouraging when one need encouragement the most.

MoAlpha 10-25-21 02:09 PM

Oh, and as for the heat theory, my HR/power is only a little higher on the trainer and might actually be the same when power is scaled relative to indoor FTP. Doesn't seem consistent with a primary thermal effect.


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