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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 05-29-16 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18805785)
Yeah it was and my wife appreciated the quality time spent together :). I have an epoxy painted garage floor and I keep it fairly clean. They mostly rolled into the crack stops and I just ran a magnet over those. That got most of them. The others where hiding about like little Easter eggs. I will get new bearings, shouldn't I?

This is a Raleigh built bike. It is weird though that the bars and stem are clearly Raleigh yet the cranks are different. The frame is every bit as nice as my Raleigh bikes but the accruements are a step below largely.

I especially find the chain guard mounting less than desirable and notice in advertisements that Raleigh bragged about a three point mount and find the Dunelt two point mount not so stable (thus the bent guard). So they intentionally continued with an inferior guard mounting to allow the Raleigh bragging rights, I suppose?

Not sure when Raleighs got the 3 point chainguards, but it was later in the 60s. My 64 has a 2 point. Around the same time they added a second rear fender stay.

SirMike1983 05-29-16 01:31 PM

There is a wooden dowel inside at the top of the bag. It helps the bag keep its shape where the leather straps come in from the seat loops.

That's basically it- just a canvas roll with a zipper and flap. The size is almost perfect though- big enough to carry supplies but small enough not to be too bulky.

You can save yourself a lot of money if you can make your own. The Carradice is not cheap.


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18805375)
I did not mean to offend with my description. A quick search discovered few pictures, but the bag doesn't look that difficult to construct. It's a cylinder with a zipper sewn in the seam. A flap then covers the zipper. I there any other feature inside the bag?

My classic and vintage sewing machines can sew through heavy canvas and leather. I have a couple of old duffle bags made of very heavy canvas. Color is limited, but the fabric is a good weight!


Narsinha 05-29-16 01:55 PM

Hello,
this info about saddle bags hit me, i guess i will be making some of those if i find the time!

Update regarding my 3-speed: First gear works now, had misplaced the axle in the first try.
BUT:
When i switch to first gear and pedal under load it gives strange noises from the back, like two hard metallic "clonks" during one full turn, seemingly from the hub. Chain or chaincase not involved (i think).
Now.. dismantling all again and looking for .. what exactly? All parts seemed to be ok, and i assembled them right, and oiled it well. I can certainly do that again for the fifth time but i am slowly getting a feeling of despair. What the hell is wrong with this? Arrgh :cry:

artclone 05-29-16 02:25 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18806248)
Hello,
this info about saddle bags hit me, i guess i will be making some of those if i find the time!

Update regarding my 3-speed: First gear works now, had misplaced the axle in the first try.
BUT:
When i switch to first gear and pedal under load it gives strange noises from the back, like two hard metallic "clonks" during one full turn, seemingly from the hub. Chain or chaincase not involved (i think).
Now.. dismantling all again and looking for .. what exactly? All parts seemed to be ok, and i assembled them right, and oiled it well. I can certainly do that again for the fifth time but i am slowly getting a feeling of despair. What the hell is wrong with this? Arrgh :cry:

Noise at same pedal position each time?
Only in first?

If yes on first question and no on second one it might be pedals or crank.

Narsinha 05-29-16 02:37 PM

^ only in first gear, definitely coming from the rear, not pedals, cranks or chain - or chain only at the rear end? But it is a hard metallic "knack" rather than the chain touching something.. will test tomorrow evening, so few time.

gster 05-29-16 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18806126)
Congratulations! I have yet to have a cotter that didn't come out by pressing, but it's good to know the drilling method works if pressing fails.

Thanks!

BigChief 05-29-16 03:04 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Just a quick report on Bike Smith's bottom bracket tool. Used it for the first time today. Since I don't have a project bike going at the moment, I spent some time salvaging parts from a late 60s rusted out junker. Since the tool is square, I couldn't use a socket and breaker bar, so I used my 1 1/2" pipe to add leverage to an adjustable wrench. This tool works great! This is THE way to remove BB fixed cups. I give it a five star rating.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=524201http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=524202

SirMike1983 05-29-16 05:22 PM

Mark's stuff really is awesome. The "Grade A" cotters are excellent, the cotter press works wonderfully, and the fixed cup tool makes a difficult job easier than usual. I'm pretty picky when it comes to tools, but his products really do a good job. They're very durable as well.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18806352)
Just a quick report on Bike Smith's bottom bracket tool. Used it for the first time today. Since I don't have a project bike going at the moment, I spent some time salvaging parts from a late 60s rusted out junker. Since the tool is square, I couldn't use a socket and breaker bar, so I used my 1 1/2" pipe to add leverage to an adjustable wrench. This tool works great! This is THE way to remove BB fixed cups. I give it a five star rating.
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=524201http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=524202


agmetal 05-29-16 06:13 PM

I've been having issues with my Carradice Nelson Longflap bag resting on my rear fender and making it rub the tire...what are people using for bag supports on DL-1s and older Tourists? I like the look of the old Brooks No.10 as shown on this 1935 catalog page, but haven't had much luck finding one. Does something like the (rather expensive...) Nitto R10 work on one of these bikes? I've been told that there's not much out there currently that will, but that's only from one source.

http://www.saddlewax.com/wp-content/...cat_p22-23.jpg

clubman 05-29-16 06:20 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18806134)
Not sure when Raleighs got the 3 point chainguards, but it was later in the 60s. My 64 has a 2 point. Around the same time they added a second rear fender stay.

I believe you're right about the time and it was generally the Superbe that got the 3 point braze-on chainguard attachment. The 2nd tier models and re-brands had different fitments of mudguards, cranks, wire/solid stays, rims etc. With Raleigh, nothing was written in stone.

clubman 05-29-16 06:30 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18806655)
I've been having issues with my Carradice Nelson Longflap bag resting on my rear fender and making it rub the tire...what are people using for bag supports on DL-1s and older Tourists? I like the look of the old Brooks No.10 as shown on this 1935 catalog page, but haven't had much luck finding one. Does something like the (rather expensive...) Nitto R10 work on one of these bikes? I've been told that there's not much out there currently that will, but that's only from one source.

[IMG]

The price of these accessories is horrifying. Ebay resellers are driving prices through the roof for stuff that cost nothing 10 years ago. The #10 your looking at is a rare bird, that one would be expensive. Just have to suck it up and realize they're not making this stuff anymore.

gster 05-29-16 06:36 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18806248)
Hello,
this info about saddle bags hit me, i guess i will be making some of those if i find the time!

Update regarding my 3-speed: First gear works now, had misplaced the axle in the first try.
BUT:
When i switch to first gear and pedal under load it gives strange noises from the back, like two hard metallic "clonks" during one full turn, seemingly from the hub. Chain or chaincase not involved (i think).
Now.. dismantling all again and looking for .. what exactly? All parts seemed to be ok, and i assembled them right, and oiled it well. I can certainly do that again for the fifth time but i am slowly getting a feeling of despair. What the hell is wrong with this? Arrgh :cry:

I suspect a misalignment between the crank and hub. Try flipping the dish of the hub. Worked for me.

3speedslow 05-29-16 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18806655)
I've been having issues with my Carradice Nelson Longflap bag resting on my rear fender and making it rub the tire...what are people using for bag supports on DL-1s and older Tourists? I like the look of the old Brooks No.10 as shown on this 1935 catalog page, but haven't had much luck finding one. Does something like the (rather expensive...) Nitto R10 work on one of these bikes? I've been told that there's not much out there currently that will, but that's only from one source.

http://www.saddlewax.com/wp-content/...cat_p22-23.jpg

There has got to be a way to fab something up from a vetta or Blackburn rear rack. Just a thought.

DQRider 05-29-16 06:57 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18806683)
The price of these accessories is horrifying. Ebay resellers are driving prices through the roof for stuff that cost nothing 10 years ago. The #10 your looking at is a rare bird, that one would be expensive. Just have to suck it up and realize they're not making this stuff anymore.

It's not that big a challenge from a DIY Engineering perspective. It looks like you could find an existing rack, carefully bend it to the shape shown, then use a combination of P-clamps and bracket hardware to secure it to the bike. The key to the Nitto R10 design are the two support arms that attach to the seat stays with, well whattaya know - P-clamps!

I have the smaller Carradice Barley bag on my DL-1, and right now it rests directly on the fender. I haven't had any problem with the fender being pushed into the tire, but I've been thinking I want to raise the bag off there to save the paint. Maybe I'll have a go at it for one of my winter projects this year.

Velocivixen 05-29-16 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18806319)
^ only in first gear, definitely coming from the rear, not pedals, cranks or chain - or chain only at the rear end? But it is a hard metallic "knack" rather than the chain touching something.. will test tomorrow evening, so few time.

Please forgive me if these questions have been answered. When I rode my first ever 3 speed I would hear a metallic sound in the hub every time I would shift - turns out it's the normal sound of the gears getting into place.

So, other than the sound, do the gears shift well? Does the sound happen all the while when pedaling or just right after you shift?

clubman 05-29-16 07:05 PM

@DQRider,

DIY is totally the way to go unless you are doing period correct restorations. Then they've got you by the short and curlies.

I sold some similar NOS accessories on ebay only to find them being snapped up by certain resellers and relisted later for double or triple my asking price. These guys are playing the long game, I've been watching them for years and it appears that it's starting to pay off for them. So I blocked them from my auctions. I'd rather sell to someone who needs it or not sell it at all.

agmetal 05-29-16 08:05 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18806726)
It's not that big a challenge from a DIY Engineering perspective. It looks like you could find an existing rack, carefully bend it to the shape shown, then use a combination of P-clamps and bracket hardware to secure it to the bike. The key to the Nitto R10 design are the two support arms that attach to the seat stays with, well whattaya know - P-clamps!

I have the smaller Carradice Barley bag on my DL-1, and right now it rests directly on the fender. I haven't had any problem with the fender being pushed into the tire, but I've been thinking I want to raise the bag off there to save the paint. Maybe I'll have a go at it for one of my winter projects this year.

Yeah, I think part of the problem I'm having is that the fender stay isn't attached the way it was originally....there are two holes where it appears to have originally been attached, maybe by rivets, but now it's just being held on by the bolt for the tail reflector, which isn't as stable. The bag's contents will push the fender side-to-side, and then it'll rub on the tire and the reflector loosens up. The other issue is that the original screw for the attachment at the seat stay bridge stripped out, so while I do have a screw in there, it's not the original threading, and doesn't hold as securely as I'd like.

I wonder if the solution would be as simple as just applying some Loctite (blue) to the reflector bolt?


I'm also looking at the modern seatpost and saddle-mounted options...the biggest concern is what will work with the Brooks B66, and what will allow me to put the support at a height only slightly above the fender (literally just enough to keep the bag from resting directly on it)

noglider 05-29-16 08:35 PM

@Narsinha, maybe you should post pictures of the hub's internal parts so we can see if they are worn and need replacement.

Loose Chain 05-29-16 09:08 PM


Originally Posted by agmetal (Post 18806857)
Yeah, I think part of the problem I'm having is that the fender stay isn't attached the way it was originally....there are two holes where it appears to have originally been attached, maybe by rivets, but now it's just being held on by the bolt for the tail reflector, which isn't as stable. The bag's contents will push the fender side-to-side, and then it'll rub on the tire and the reflector loosens up. The other issue is that the original screw for the attachment at the seat stay bridge stripped out, so while I do have a screw in there, it's not the original threading, and doesn't hold as securely as I'd like.

I wonder if the solution would be as simple as just applying some Loctite (blue) to the reflector bolt?


I'm also looking at the modern seatpost and saddle-mounted options...the biggest concern is what will work with the Brooks B66, and what will allow me to put the support at a height only slightly above the fender (literally just enough to keep the bag from resting directly on it)

I think the stays are spot welded, not riveted, to the fenders. The bolt on holds the tail reflector. I am speaking Raleigh Sports, others seem to use wire stays that are indeed secured with the common screw of the reflector assembly.

agmetal 05-29-16 09:13 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18806944)
I think the stays are spot welded, not riveted, to the fenders. The bolt on holds the tail reflector. I am speaking Raleigh Sports, others seem to use wire stays that are indeed secured with the common screw of the reflector assembly.

This sounds like it's possible, although I'm not sure where the holes would have come from on the rear fender.

Rear:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...528_090440.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...528_090456.jpg

Front:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...528_090537.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v8...528_090552.jpg

BigChief 05-29-16 09:44 PM

A bag support may not need stays that attach to the frame if you use support bars strong enough. I like the look of this clamp. VO Handlebar to Bottle Cage Mount - Water Bottles & Cages - Accessories I'll guess that 2 bars of 3/16 x 1 6061 aluminum bars bolted on to this clamp and shaped to fit under the bag would be enough to support the saddle bag.
6061 Aluminum Flat - MetalsDepot&reg

Narsinha 05-30-16 02:23 AM

Hello again,
thanks for the ideas, will see to that this evening (10:10 a.m. here right now)

@ gster: "I suspect a misalignment between the crank and hub. Try flipping the dish of the hub. Worked for me."
Maybe, i left it where it was. The space for the chain is very narrow at the rear end, due to the chain case. How do i get off this circlip, last time it went right through the roof ;)

@ velocivixen: The metallic sound while switching is there and normal, of course i always try not to put load on the pedal when shifting, but it still certainly does a (soft and quiet) 'clonk'.
The gears shift easily and well, from 1-3 and back. This hard clonk sound only happens during continuous pedaling, in first gear. Not in the higher gears 2 and 3.

@ noglider: Thanks, will do if i disamantle all again. When i did it a few days ago, all looked pretty good though. The bicycle has not seen much action.. the parts have a black oxide finish, and the axles of the planet gears as well as the "pulling-key" have blank surfaces where they rotate, but no pittings or "steps", all very good. And all very well oiled..

Will see later and post any updates here, thanks again!

slowtostart 05-30-16 04:45 AM

agmetal, could those fender holes have been drilled for mud flaps?

agmetal 05-30-16 08:49 AM

Nah, they're too high up

Narhay 05-30-16 08:49 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18807161)
Hello again,
thanks for the ideas, will see to that this evening (10:10 a.m. here right now)

@ gster: "I suspect a misalignment between the crank and hub. Try flipping the dish of the hub. Worked for me."
Maybe, i left it where it was. The space for the chain is very narrow at the rear end, due to the chain case. How do i get off this circlip, last time it went right through the roof ;)

@ velocivixen: The metallic sound while switching is there and normal, of course i always try not to put load on the pedal when shifting, but it still certainly does a (soft and quiet) 'clonk'.
The gears shift easily and well, from 1-3 and back. This hard clonk sound only happens during continuous pedaling, in first gear. Not in the higher gears 2 and 3.

@ noglider: Thanks, will do if i disamantle all again. When i did it a few days ago, all looked pretty good though. The bicycle has not seen much action.. the parts have a black oxide finish, and the axles of the planet gears as well as the "pulling-key" have blank surfaces where they rotate, but no pittings or "steps", all very good. And all very well oiled..

Will see later and post any updates here, thanks again!


Have you tried changing the cable tension a small bit? Just a turn in either direction to see if that helps.


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