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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Peugeotlover 03-26-18 06:47 AM

1 Attachment(s)
For a non-abrasive method to clean fine quality rims,
this ParkTool Chainbrite with a sponge does a good job.
Non-toxic & smells okay.

qcpmsame 03-26-18 07:48 AM


Originally Posted by ThermionicScott (Post 20244348)
Anyone else picture a flight attendance miming along to the safety instructions when they watch this? ;)

:thumb:Darned if I didn't think about that when I first watched their tub mounting vids, in March 2016.:roflmao2: I can see the small section of a tubular rim and fake tire section the attendant would be holding, now.:rolleyes:

Funny thing that caught my attention is the discrepancy between the Conti vids and the instruction sheets included with the tubs. One tells you to stretch the tires by standing on the and pulling them upwards, the other tells you to avoid doing this as it will weaken the cords. Good proofreading there.

Bill

squirtdad 03-26-18 10:27 AM

ok looking for ideas.

As my first experience with tubular, I have been very happy with my Tufo tires and using the Tufo tape.....but popped a spoke and need to remove the tire.

That thing does not want to come off, I have thinking about taking my shop hair dryer to it to warm things up

Any other experience with removing tires from tufo rim tape.

I am happy this did not happen on the road.....

thanks

Salamandrine 03-26-18 02:50 PM


Originally Posted by daviddavieboy (Post 20245541)
I reglued with vittoria mastik one with even coats on wheels and tire. It is good to know that a thin coat is used henceforth when replacing tires. The reasons I chose to remove the glue were that the type of glue the previous owner used was unknown to me and because there were literally blobs everywhere and I was able to pull the tires off without much effort.

Yeah, but be careful not to spread the glue too thin. Thin is relative... Just use less than you would use for a new set of rims. The solvents in the new glue will partially reactivate the old glue. Ideally you want the tiniest hint of squeezout droplets appearing at the base tape all the way around the rim evenly.

Removing mystery glue from an old wheel purchased/acquired used is prudent. Who knows what was on it before.

SJX426 03-26-18 03:10 PM

If I use a wire wheel, it is a brass one, not Stainless or otherwise.

Lazyass 03-26-18 03:44 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20246063)
ok looking for ideas.

As my first experience with tubular, I have been very happy with my Tufo tires and using the Tufo tape.....but popped a spoke and need to remove the tire.

That thing does not want to come off, I have thinking about taking my shop hair dryer to it to warm things up

Any other experience with removing tires from tufo rim tape.

I am happy this did not happen on the road.....

thanks

I don't know but that's why I've always avoided tape. You should buy a cheap heat gun, you can get a decent one for $25 or so. They're handy for all kinds of bike related things.

crank_addict 03-26-18 08:17 PM

You know when Taiwan Vittoria has gone down the tubes when they still label as 28" and the sidewall molding state 'clincher'. LOL

These pair are brand new, out of the wrapper. A portion of the top tread layer is separating and I need to syringe glue to repair. Still usable rubber but jeez....

[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/881/3...6c09193d_b.jpgDSC_2511 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/820/4...d39d56d1_b.jpgDSC_2510 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

jimmuller 03-26-18 08:51 PM

I think they and others use the same mold for clinchers and sewups. That's why they give both tire pressures on the same tire.

crank_addict 03-26-18 08:56 PM

^Or the attempt to be PC in this day and age. I'm so confused. He or she bike rubber, meh......

Lazyass 03-27-18 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 20247124)
You know when Taiwan Vittoria has gone down the tubes when they still label as 28" and the sidewall molding state 'clincher'. LOL

These pair are brand new, out of the wrapper. A portion of the top tread layer is separating and I need to syringe glue to repair. Still usable rubber but jeez....

[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/881/3...6c09193d_b.jpgDSC_2511 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

[IMG]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/820/4...d39d56d1_b.jpgDSC_2510 by carrera247, on Flickr[/IMG]

Dang, man. I was about to order some Corsa Elite's. I think I'll just go with the Yellow Jersey 3 for fifty bucks. I rack up too many miles to spend a lot of money for poor quality.

SJX426 03-27-18 08:39 AM

[MENTION=133361]Lazyass[/MENTION] - You may want to consider spending slightly more and getting significantly more performance. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...g-tubular-2016

Lazyass 03-27-18 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 20247788)
[MENTION=133361]Lazyass[/MENTION] - You may want to consider spending slightly more and getting significantly more performance. https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...g-tubular-2016

I kind of set a price limit on myself at $60-some odd per tire because I ride up to 800 miles a month. I go through those super soft tires fast and with tubulars it gets expensive. Not to mention I prefer butyl tubes and the high end ones come with latex. I don't really like the Conti Sprinters. The Tufo's might be be an option but I have no experience with that brand, I don't know why but they've never interested me.

SJX426 03-27-18 09:18 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20247829)
I kind of set a price limit on myself at $60-some odd per tire because I ride up to 800 miles a month. I go through those super soft tires fast and with tubulars it gets expensive. Not to mention I prefer butyl tubes and the high end ones come with latex. I don't really like the Conti Sprinters. The Tufo's might be be an option but I have no experience with that brand, I don't know why but they've never interested me.

I have the same limitations placed on myself. I have the clincher version and just felt they were significantly different from the Michelin Pro 2's and Specialized high end tires. They were on sale at the time and now I plan on getting tubular versions next. In the process of slowly moving my "race" bikes to tubulars with clincher back ups.

DiabloScott 03-27-18 09:47 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20247829)
I kind of set a price limit on myself at $60-some odd per tire because I ride up to 800 miles a month. I go through those super soft tires fast and with tubulars it gets expensive.


I've been really lucky with flats on my Pave tubulars so I decided it was OK to buy up a whole bunch of them when I noticed they were being discontinued... and will probably spring for Tire Alert repairs when the inevitable happens.

The Yellow Jersey tires aren't bad but they don't really give that tubular road feel.


I ride up to 800 miles a month
Wow... kudos.

Lazyass 03-28-18 05:14 PM

I have a question to throw out. I'm switching my modern bike to tubulars and the rims are 22mm wide. Does anyone foresee a problem with 22mm tires? I can buy Conti Sprinter 22's for less than $40.

The last time I ran 22mm tubulars I had narrower rims, 20mm I think, maybe 19. Hard to remember, that was like the early 90's. But I know they weren't 22mm wide.

FYI these are the rims. They're actually pretty nice. I bought a wheelset with 6700 hubs and DT Comp spokes on clearance from them for less than $200.

Pure Tubular 23x22mm 380g

crank_addict 03-28-18 08:34 PM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20247829)
I kind of set a price limit on myself at $60-some odd per tire because I ride up to 800 miles a month. I go through those super soft tires fast and with tubulars it gets expensive. Not to mention I prefer butyl tubes and the high end ones come with latex. I don't really like the Conti Sprinters. The Tufo's might be be an option but I have no experience with that brand, I don't know why but they've never interested me.

Agree on the budget Cont. Sprinters. Hit or miss, base tapes are slapped on whippy look, etc.. Becomes very much justifiable to skip two lunch outings and spend the extra for better quality.

As for Tufo, the S33 Pro tubular in both available width are consistent in quality, always seem as if they were spin tested and machined by lathe. Pretty hard sidewall, bit lacking on comfort and roll resistance. There's definitely faster rubber out there but for longevity and smooth rollers out of the wrapper, they're worth it for budget minded / trainers. I've acquired them low as $14 each - sale.

Then for clincher's only, I've also found the S33 Pro 'tubular' for CLINCHER exceptional in longevity. This thread is not really for the subject of tubulars, but this product is on their own island.

neg for the nascar / billboard Tufo sidewall logo's

Ghrumpy 03-29-18 12:09 AM


Originally Posted by crank_addict (Post 20247124)
You know when Taiwan Vittoria has gone down the tubes when they still label as 28"

Um, nope. 28" is still the correct and traditional size callout for standard road/track tubulars. Tufo, Challenge, Dugast, Continental and Veloflex use that designation as well. Granted, it might seem a little crazy to talk about a 28" tire these days that uses a smaller rim than a 27", but bigger than a 27.5", and is actually the same diameter as a 29", but you can blame society for that. The 28" designation has been around longer than all the others combined.
The current callout follows the ETRTO tire size designation standard format. It avoids using the BSD found in clincher sizes, because tubulars have no beads. And calling it 28 instead of 622 makes clear that there is a distinction between clincher and tubular tires in case you couldn't tell. The ETRTO is all about reducing confusion in tire size callouts.

Not only it it correct to call tubulars 28", it is, in fact, entirely incorrect to call a tubular "700C." That's always and only been correctly a clincher size callout. That said, French tire makes have in the past and still occasionally refer to their tubulars as "700" (without the C,) which is a reasonable metric approximation to 28".

Wileyone 03-29-18 06:06 AM

Schwalbe 1's might be an option for some. They have Butyl liners and can be found on Sale. They don't ride as nice as the Vitoria Corsa's I have but you don't have to pump them up "Daily".
I have been checking the UK sites lately and prices seemed to have risen lately.

Lazyass 03-29-18 07:13 AM

What do you all think about this option? Vredestein FRECCIA Pro TriComp 23c. I can get them for $42.

https://www.vredestein.co.uk/bicycle...t/0/race/20823

DiabloScott 03-29-18 07:33 AM


Originally Posted by Ghrumpy (Post 20251462)
Um, nope. 28" is still the correct and traditional size callout for standard road/track tubulars. Tufo, Challenge, Dugast, Continental and Veloflex use that designation as well. Granted, it might seem a little crazy to talk about a 28" tire these days that uses a smaller rim than a 27", but bigger than a 27.5", and is actually the same diameter as a 29", but you can blame society for that. The 28" designation has been around longer than all the others combined.
The current callout follows the ETRTO tire size designation standard format. It avoids using the BSD found in clincher sizes, because tubulars have no beads. And calling it 28 instead of 622 makes clear that there is a distinction between clincher and tubular tires in case you couldn't tell. The ETRTO is all about reducing confusion in tire size callouts.

Not only it it correct to call tubulars 28", it is, in fact, entirely incorrect to call a tubular "700C." That's always and only been correctly a clincher size callout. That said, French tire makes have in the past and still occasionally refer to their tubulars as "700" (without the C,) which is a reasonable metric approximation to 28".

Yup. Crazy and confusing, not wrong. But no one is confused if I say "700c tubulars"


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/YV...=w1046-h588-no

28" diameter, 27mm wide... get used to it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Ta...=w1046-h588-no

Ghrumpy 03-29-18 11:57 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 20251763)
Yup. Crazy and confusing, not wrong. But no one is confused if I say "700c tubulars"

Depends entirely on your definition of "wrong."
Your definition is functional. If you can walk into a store and get what you need by calling it a "round rubber thingy that holds air" then good for you. Nothing "wrong" with that. Language is flexible and adaptable that way. [MENTION=350383]crank_addict[/MENTION] is of the opinion that calling a tubular 28" is "wrong," perhaps because if you walk into a bike shop and ask for a 28" tubular tire they might not know what you mean (even though it's printed right on the box and/or the tire in almost every case.)

My definition of "wrong" is technical. It's based on the origins of the terms, their historical use, and what appears to be current ETRTO usage. Historically, it's "wrong" because the original British clincher tire size system did not include tubular tire sizes. Tubulars and single-tube tires were indeed 28" diameter, but the industry fairly quickly settled on one standard 28" tubular rim size, not four.

That was the case by the time the French adopted the British tire sizing system and overlaid it with metric system measurements. As I said before, 700mm is a reasonably close approximation of the 28" British size (28"=711mm.) Tubular tires were never part of that scheme either; there was no such thing as a 700A or 700B tubular rim or tire. There was one "700" tubular size, just as there was one 28" tubular size*. It's illogical to call a tubular 700C unless there is also an A and a B to choose from.

I understand the desire to simplify the obsolete and complicated tire size schemes. If that's what you want to do, calling a tubular 700C is not helping. It sounds technically accurate, but it's actually not. Better just to forgo using the obsolete French callouts altogether and use the ETRTO sizes. For clinchers, it's xx-622. For tubulars, it's xx-28".



*There have been some oddball tubular sizes over the years. I've got two different size nominal 24" tubular rims, and Cinelli made frames around what they called their "ridotto" wheel size that was in between 28" and 26". But the original sizes have been standard since the 1890s. These oddballs are much later additions to the mix.
There have also been attempts to "correct" tubular tire size callouts. Schwinn Paramount catalogs of the '60s list "27 inch" tubulars as the stock tire size, but that's because that's closer to the actual mounted wheel and tire diameter. It's the same size rim and tire as what had previously been called 28". Probably led to more confusion when a rider tried to install his 27" clincher wheelset only to find the brakes had to be adjusted to the different rim diameter.

DiabloScott 03-29-18 01:18 PM


Originally Posted by Ghrumpy (Post 20252240)
Depends entirely on your definition of "wrong."
Your definition is functional.

Dude, I was agreeing with you, mostly. And I appreciate your sharing your knowledge of the history here.

28" is not wrong but is confusing.
700c Tubular is wrong but not confusing.
And by "confusing" I mean people come in here and ask because they think they have something other than a "normal" tubular.


https://www.euroasiaimports.com/prod...175_detail.jpg

And the labeling is more confusing than even being discussed here. Continental has 700/28/622 tubular tires (same size) labeled differently.

https://static.biketiresdirect.com/p...0/costr4-1.jpg

https://static.biketiresdirect.com/p...0/costs3-1.jpg

squirtdad 03-30-18 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20250915)
I have a question to throw out. I'm switching my modern bike to tubulars and the rims are 22mm wide. Does anyone foresee a problem with 22mm tires? I can buy Conti Sprinter 22's for less than $40.

The last time I ran 22mm tubulars I had narrower rims, 20mm I think, maybe 19. Hard to remember, that was like the early 90's. But I know they weren't 22mm wide.

FYI these are the rims. They're actually pretty nice. I bought a wheelset with 6700 hubs and DT Comp spokes on clearance from them for less than $200.

Pure Tubular 23x22mm 380g

thanks for that link....am seeing another wheelset in my future

Lazyass 03-30-18 10:36 AM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20254125)
thanks for that link....am seeing another wheelset in my future

Here's a link for their discount codes. I had the wheels on my doorstep three days after I ordered them.

http://bicyclewheelwarehouse.com/Coupons.html

DiabloScott 03-30-18 11:07 AM


Originally Posted by Lazyass (Post 20250915)
I have a question to throw out. I'm switching my modern bike to tubulars and the rims are 22mm wide. Does anyone foresee a problem with 22mm tires? I can buy Conti Sprinter 22's for less than $40.

The last time I ran 22mm tubulars I had narrower rims, 20mm I think, maybe 19. Hard to remember, that was like the early 90's. But I know they weren't 22mm wide.

The concern of course would be if the tire doesn't bond all the way to the edge of the rim.

HED offers this guideline:


23mm C2 tubular rim recommended tire width: 20mm+
- so it seems 22 on 22 wouldn't be a problem (at least for HED's rim shape)


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