Schwalbe Winter Marathon self-inflicted flats
 

I've been running the Winter Marathons for over ten years now and have consistently had studs causing flats after maybe 3k miles. The stud heads have had some corrosion plus there's some sand/grit along with them in the "pocket." One or the other or both wear through the casing over time and cause a flat. At that point, I've usually just moved the front tire to the rear (as the studs have worn down a bit after 1.5k miles) and put a new tire on the front. What to do with the old rear? There's hardly any tread wear, but all the remaining studs on the two middle rows are ticking time bombs. They sit unused in my basement for now.

I did get the bright idea of putting in a tire liner (Rhinodillos). I had read that the overlap spot can be a problem area so I bought one that was supposed to solve that problem. A year later, the tire went flat out on the road in November. The overlap wasn't the problem. The edge of the strip had abraded the tube, and there were abrasion lines of several inches in several spots. My best guess is that the strips got rave reviews because people use them in nice temperatures. I was biking down to -5F with them here in Minnesota. The nice, soft "compound" probably got pretty stiff and the stiff edge took a toll on the tube.

Recommendations? Are there any liners that WILL prevent the studs from causing flats and WON'T cause flats themselves in the cold? Other suggestions? I need reliability in the cold, and given the price of the Marathons, I don't feel like swapping them out after 1k to make sure they stay reliable...

SMWs are notorious for poor quality control and studs wearing through to the inside. I got far better mileage out of my Nokias/Suomityres. Too bad the tread is so good for bare Ground, ice/hardpack mix. Last pair I got replaced simply by sending a pic of the production code to my national dealer. The replacement pair has studs + in-built flat protection. They’re heavy as bad conscience but are holding up well.
What to do with used tires - I’ve cut up one or two into 8” pieces and handed them out at swap meets for people to salvage studs from. I’ve reused the beads for various garden projects.
I’ve dug out all of the studs from some and put the tires on beater bikes, which seems to work well enough.

re: disposal https://mtbtime.com/how-to-recycle-bicycle-tubes-tires/
Connecting with your local recycling facility. Research if your local recycling facility takes rubber.
Local bike shops. Ask your local bike retailers about take back programs for old tubes and tires.
Car tire shops. Check with your local tire company if they also accept bike tires.
Mail in programs.

ashamed to admit I've folded mine over, tied them w/ cord & thrown them in the trash. hope to do better next time

haven't had flats as you describe. maybe cause I don't ride as much? maybe because I run a lower pressure, especially with the MTB (I have those tires on 2 bikes)
got 2 flats from this problem (broken wire bead poking thru the rubber). on a set I bought used. 1st flat didn't realize the cause. the 2nd flat shortly after, oh yeah, saw that then. installed last tube I had on me & covered the wire with tape & band aides. it was holding but I hitched a ride back to my car. got lucky cuz it was getting dark & I was in a state forest exploring one winter. it cudda been a long cold walk back to my car
I can not access my photo albums however right now for some reason. luckily google helped me find an old post from 2/5/17 w/ the pics
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f4629c9780.jpg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f5afb0ad9d.jpg

My Suomi Mount & Grounds have yet to exhibit any of these issues. They're definitely not my favorite tires to ride, but I can at least worry about other things. No liners or extra-thick tubes needed. :)

It's good to see people are so conscientious.

It's good to see people are so conscientious.

I've been using Marathon Winters for over 10 years on a folding bike with 20" wheels. I had some of those self-inflicted flats after the first couple winters. The rear tire deteriorated fastest. I would have bullet-proof performance the first year, then the occasional flat. As you point out, flats in the cold are not fun; I'd go farther and say on a commuting bike they are unacceptable.
I have for several years now been using "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners. I have had *zero* flats except for a valve stem that conveniently came off after arriving at work. Also, I have not had the experience reported by others of flats caused by the tire liners themselves. I don't get as many miles as you report; on the rear, I probably get 1,500 miles on a tire, probably 50% more than without the tire liners. This may be because they are 20" tires.
Installing the liners is a bit of a challenge, but I've been using double-sided tape rated for "outdoor use" to keep them in place while mounting the tires (8 one-inch strips).
I have a set of Nokian "Extreme 296" tires that are used on my mountain bike, not for daily commuting. These are several years old and have not deteriorated appreciably. I am unable to say for sure that this is due to higher quality because the use is so different.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...80bcbe326b.jpg
This Marathon Winter is probably shot, but no flats resulted over its last winter due to the use of a tire liner.



https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3cdf37fbd8.jpg
Here's a Marathon Winter with one winter season on it. Early signs of stud wear-through can be seen. At the right, the end of the tire liner is seen.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c738a29be.jpg
Two of the eight strips of double-sided tape in place. These make installation of the tire liner much easier. The red plastic is removed to expose the adhesive.

Lol I thought I was the only one who cheated. I use that 3M spray on adhesive you get at Home Depot. Made for gluing headliners inside a car, etc. .
Google 3M Super 77. Yes I put Mr Tuffy liners inside my Schwalbe Marathons also.

Well, I will go ahead and give the Mr. Tuffys a try and see what happens. I'll plan on checking for chafing a time or two this winter at least rather than naively riding assuming the best with the Rhinodillos.

Another tidbit is that the middle row of studs seem to wear down to the point of not being effective in about the same mileage as the studs causing flats. After 1500 miles on the front, I notice they aren't doing as well on ice, but still work fine enough on the rear. And by the time I've gotten the rear flats, they aren't doing so well there either. The thought crossed my mind to swap the inner and outer rows of studs, but that would be quite a job...

So then I lament about how quickly the tires are shot compared to the cost, but then realize it's still well worth it for all the hours I do get out of them (and out of the house, and no gym membership, and...)

so rotating them front to rear each would be helpful. I don't ride as much as you but I should at least keep track & try to rotate mine, or at least visually inspect those center studs before deciding which goes where. as to the cost, one might also consider the cost of a broken hip, if one falls ... a year or so ago I made the mistake of waiting to long to put them on (the year before I put them on too early)

was surprised how far the bike slid after I fell

the long version is you need help going to sleep

same place, a little later, w/ the studs

Hahaha... that's my response to people who complain about the cost of the tires: "What's the co-pay on a broken hip?"
I haven't found wear on the studs themselves to be a problem. The rubber degrades first, in my experience... possibly this has something to do with the 20" size.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...397ad6ab85.jpg
No slipping with 26" Nokian "Extreme 294" tires.

I had the wire bead emerge like that from a Nokian W106 after, I think, 2 seasons. Oddly, I didn't get a flat. I noticed it when I got home. And I replaced the tire with Schwalbe Marathon Winter tires.. I'm about to use those for their second season. I better look them over carefully.

Update: The Mr. Tuffy liner has been installed in the rear tire. The most challenging part was taking the red protective strip off the tape! What a pain... :) I should have peeled it off on the roll as I cut off the strips.

Oh, and thanks so much for sharing that wire bead issue! One more thing to be paranoid about 10 miles out when it's 0F... :lol:

We've had almost a week of winter in the Twin Cities. The studs have been very welcomed. Just have a new chain skipping issue at the moment on my primary two cogs. The new cassette should be here tomorrow if it doesn't get stalled out with our winter storm of 5-11". I was impressed it was in stock. (And yeah, I should have dealt with this weeks ago but...)

I think my wire bead broke because it was so old & I don't know how the previous owner (bought them used) handled them when doing his changeovers. don't give it another thought. good luck w/ the skipping