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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

jman0war 06-14-15 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17891880)
Just noticed, it also has it's original 50s window trigger shifter. There should also be a small steel oil filler on the top of the bottom bracket.
Now this is just me but, I'd be looking for a Raleigh with black fenders that would match the patina of this bike. Wouldn't be impossible to find since the fenders remained unchanged all the way through the 60s. Personally, I wouldn't think twice about buying $75 60s stepthrough for the fenders if the paint matched well enough. Although you would still need a black cased reflector. This is a great bike. The alloy shell AW is an added bonus and original saddles on 50s bikes are rare.

Nice idea.
So i'm looking for an old Raleigh from the 50's through the 60's for Fenders?
Is the 70's too young?

dweenk 06-14-15 11:56 AM

Sometime in the '70s Raleigh went from 2 rear fender stays to a single stay (at least on my Belgian Sports). I think either style would work.

BigChief 06-14-15 02:32 PM

Sometime in the 70s, they added a second stay to the rear fender. You want the single stay type. Your bike would have had a 1 3/4" reflector with a black rubber case. That will be harder to find than the fenders.

edit:
oops, wrong. Out of curiosity, I did an ebay search. Here's one.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-BICY...item4aeb829ee8

jman0war 06-14-15 03:48 PM

Like these?
1950's Pair of Vintage Mudguards for Raleigh Town Bike With Wheel Size 26inch | eBay

dweenk 06-14-15 04:28 PM

30.00 for dented rusted fenders, and they must be shipped across the pond with little guarantee that they will ever arrive, or if they should arrive - will they be in the same condition as shipped? Look domestically.

jman0war 06-14-15 05:04 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17893783)
30.00 for dented rusted fenders, and they must be shipped across the pond with little guarantee that they will ever arrive, or if they should arrive - will they be in the same condition as shipped? Look domestically.

Oh yes, that and the pictures are from 2005.
I wasn't serious about buying them, just identifying the style of fender i'm looking for.

desconhecido 06-14-15 05:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by jman0war (Post 17893883)
Oh yes, that and the pictures are from 2005.
I wasn't serious about buying them, just identifying the style of fender i'm looking for.

The stays on those are wrong. Look at the many pictures of Sports bikes in this thread, and other threads on the forums, to see what you need. They will have pressed sheet metal stays that are spot welded to the fenders. Old style was one stay in the rear. Went to two stays probably in the 70s, but can't remember for sure.

Somewhere in the Fox River Valley there is an old unloved Raleigh Sports that you can gobble up as a donor. Maybe have to resort to repainting and maybe a little forming, but they are out there. Other than the stays for the rear, I think that all Raleigh Sports fenders from early 50s (maybe earlier) to the last of the Nottingham bikes somewhere around 1980 were pretty much identical though the earlier the fender the better probability that it will be in good shape as quality control in sheet metal finishing went way down in the 70s, maybe earlier. Sourcing a reflector may be another issue as many of the original reflectors are long gone.

If you can find a donor with a decent AW hub (maybe even an alloy) and some salvageable fenders and maybe a dyno hub you might be able to recover your investment by parting out the bits you can't use. There are a lot of Sports bikes out there with really crappy brazing and other issues (damaged frame, etc) that are probably worthy of being parted out.

Here's a picture of our 51 (based on SN) "Light Sports Roadster"
Those would be the ideal fenders for you to look for.http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458089

BigChief 06-14-15 05:43 PM

Again, this is just me. I admit I put too much time into this hobby. Not a lot of money really. Compared to most other hobbies,
this is pretty inexpensive. I love the bike you found. To me, this bike deserves the perfect fenders. I would never buy from pictures.
Mostly because I wouldn't have to. There are plenty of black Raleighs in various states of disrepair on the market and 90% would
have the style of fender you need. I would actually enjoy the hunt. I would follow up ads until I found fenders in the same condition
as the rest of the bike. Something that would color match perfectly. I'd either sell the donor bike or use it for another project.
Warning here...one old English bike can lead to more. There's plenty of work to do on your bike. And then you can have fun riding
without fenders. Plenty of time to check out black Raleighs in person and find those just right fenders. Any fenders from Sports, Superbes,
diamond or stepthroughs from the 50s 60s and maybe even early 70s would work. Only the reflector would be different.

wow, nice bike des.

jmeb 06-14-15 05:59 PM

My Carlton 3-speed build is coming along -- but just teaser shots for now until it is fully dressed.

S3X Wheelset. Not sure if I'll run fixed or free yet. Currently don't have a single-speed freewheel, so I'm going to test a few cogs to get the gearing dialed in.
http://i.imgur.com/3lZbJiW.jpg

531 Butted main tubes
http://i.imgur.com/UN6IQLN.jpg

Replaced the cottered cranks with some Sugino Mighty's I repantographed a while back.
http://i.imgur.com/sLgInTl.jpg

VO North Road bars to GB stem (drilled for center pulls)
http://i.imgur.com/h4PooYV.jpg

My first Carradice. I thought it'd be appropriate for this ride. Hooking it up to a quick-release bagman, adding a leather carry strap to use as a commute bag.
http://i.imgur.com/wv5p4E5.jpg

jman0war 06-14-15 06:05 PM

Yeah, that's a very attractive bike des.
They are so smart looking, these bikes.

I started out looking for DL-1, and landed a early 50's Sports.
Can't wait to find out what happens next!

PalmettoUpstate 06-14-15 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 17890098)
No. A while back, I was looking to see if brown tires were available for my Rudge project. I was disappointed to find through google searches that even though a reasonably priced product existed, only European dealers had them. I gave up on the idea. At least Kendras are available in traditional all black.

I'll admit to being a fan of Kenda tires.

I just solved a real problem with some Kenda Klassic K-Shield K40's...

I had bought a pair of Continental City Rides for my wife's blue Sports but the rather ample tires were way too big to fit in the fenders. I finally gave up on trying to get them to fit after literally HOURS of tweaking. The pics that follow will show why...

I was trying to - as much as possible with modern offerings - approximate the look of the 1972 OEM Dunlop White Sprite tires with their dual white pinstripe sidewalls.

Hopefully the pics will illustrate my point so that anyone else trying to do this kinda thing doesn't buy the too-big Contis...

I'll also get a pic of the Dunlop White Sprites on my own always-kept-indoors 1970 Sports. To say that they have held up well would be an extreme understatement...

PalmettoUpstate 06-14-15 10:10 PM


Originally Posted by jman0war (Post 17893883)
Oh yes, that and the pictures are from 2005.
I wasn't serious about buying them, just identifying the style of fender i'm looking for.

Those are NOT what you want. You need the fenders with the raised center rib, Bluemels?, and not the ones with no center dib as would be found on the DL-1 model.

I have a pair of weathered black fenders from a Malaysian-built Sports that I'll give you if you'll pay the shipping. It's gonna become a path racer clone and won't need them any more.

Since I have a couple of other pics to take tomorrow I'll get a shot or two of them too if you want...

BTW, great bike!

jman0war 06-15-15 06:56 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17894544)
Those are NOT what you want. You need the fenders with the raised center rib, Bluemels?, and not the ones with no center dib as would be found on the DL-1 model.

I have a pair of weathered black fenders from a Malaysian-built Sports that I'll give you if you'll pay the shipping. It's gonna become a path racer clone and won't need them any more.

Since I have a couple of other pics to take tomorrow I'll get a shot or two of them too if you want...

BTW, great bike!

That would be amazing.
I'd love to see the fenders.

Thanks for reading the thread.

markk900 06-15-15 06:18 PM

Since @jmeb posted teasers of his incredible looking Carlton, I thought I would share the following: I built up my Trek 600 as a modern IGH upright style bike, but then I found my Humber and for classic riding I think it is more suitable. But I really like IGH, so I partially "rebuilt" the Trek so that its like the Carlton: a modern touring clubman. The saddle I once used on the Humber (uncomfortably so) now adorns this bike and its much more comfortable with the drop bars (and the B67 that I had on the Trek works wonderfully on the Humber). Other than new brake cable innards, so no money was expended on this reconversion. Rides great - need to dial in seat position (too far back I think) and get rid of the squeak in the front brake, but otherwise a joy to ride:

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psfy83lr3j.jpg


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...psgjdmf8es.jpg


http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/a...pszyl7uqrr.jpg

I think it still qualifies as English 3-speed in spite of Japanese components and an American frame since the hub is classic AW all the way.

jmeb 06-15-15 06:32 PM

@markk900 -- beautiful build. The somewhat relaxed geometry and incredible paint really make that build. I have a 620 in the same color / year, though it is my roadie for now. The under-bottom-bracket routing certainly helps with SA cable routing. I had to go with the pulley setup to avoid chainring interference. But then, I hadn't consider something I think you did...did you route the cable through the RD/chainstay housing stop? If so, how do you find that works?

markk900 06-15-15 06:47 PM

Thanks! I did route through the cable stop and eventually I think it will wear on the wire as the angle isn't perfect. But IGH isn't about shifting all the time, and if I was really worried about it I'd make up a plastic bushing or shrink some wrap on the bare cable....however I'm not so I won't for now...

On your build I think you will like the pulley arrangement - there is some valid argument to the idea that the seat stay cable routing is better and doesn't change if you remove the rear wheel....and it looks more classic. But a) I didn't have a pulley at the time (I do have a spare now), and b) I would have to use a fulcrum stop clamped to the top tube as well as the pulley clamped to the seat tube, whereas this way I used the existing shifter base as the cable stop and no need to add more clamps...

jman0war 06-15-15 08:21 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17892113)
I know exactly where that sale was -- about a block from the hospital. My grandmother lived somewhere around 150 4th St, so I'm very familiar with the area.

Hey desconhecido,
Since you're from the area if you are interested in that Neenah license plate let me know and I'll send it to you.
I can't really do PM's yet though as I don't have enough posts.

arex 06-15-15 08:43 PM

How many teeth are on that Trek's chainring? Looks smallish.

noglider 06-15-15 09:48 PM

@markk900, that's pretty.

desconhecido 06-15-15 10:42 PM


Originally Posted by jman0war (Post 17897621)
Hey desconhecido,
Since you're from the area if you are interested in that Neenah license plate let me know and I'll send it to you.
I can't really do PM's yet though as I don't have enough posts.

That's a real nice offer, but I think you should keep it. We had similar plates on our Menasha bikes but the latest I seem to recall would have been sometime about 1963. If you didn't have a plate on your bike the police might stop you and then you had to go to bicycle court. Nobody liked to display the plates properly so we'd lace them through the spokes. I got caught running a stop sign once and had to go to bicycle court. Turned out to be no big deal, just an exercise in shaming. Apparently, you can't do that any more.

markk900 06-16-15 05:30 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 17897666)
How many teeth are on that Trek's chainring? Looks smallish.

40 - paired with an 18T rear - "compact crank 3-speed" :) I get gear ratios of 45/60/80 inches which works well for anything but the steepest hills (in either direction). Pretty close to the normal 44/20 combo on a lot of other English 3-speeds.

thumpism 06-16-15 06:47 AM

Nice one in Richmond, if anyone is looking. Let me know if three speed finds posted here are unwelcome. I put them here instead of in the CL thread because they seem more specifically suited to this thread.

Nice, Vintage Raleigh Sport City Bike
Nice, Vintage Raleigh Sport City Bike - $130 (midlothian)
http://images.craigslist.org/01313_e...hr_600x450.jpg


Nice Vintage 70's Raleigh Sport 3 speed city bike. New tires, Good condition, new seat. Medium size--should fit riders from 5'7" to 6'1" or so.

PalmettoUpstate 06-16-15 09:15 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 17893207)
Sometime in the '70s Raleigh went from 2 rear fender stays to a single stay (at least on my Belgian Sports). I think either style would work.

Here's a couple of pics of the two stays on my wife's 1972 Sports. What you see is the result of hours of ultimately futile work trying to get a Continental City Ride II to fit inside said stays! LOL

The pic of the two tires uninflated shows how much rubber difference there can be in 37x590 ISO tires. The smaller tire is a Kenda Klassic K-Shield K40.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458581http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458583 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458584

PalmettoUpstate 06-16-15 09:24 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by jman0war (Post 17895039)
That would be amazing.
I'd love to see the fenders.

Thanks for reading the thread.

I dug them outta my shed this past weekend and have to say they're in pretty bad shape. Been two+ years since I dismantled the bike they were on so memory was fuzzy about exactly how much "patina" was involved.

Nonetheless, you're welcome to them if you pay shipping. My plans for them had been to one day, some day, take them to where one of my buddies is bead blasting some classic automobile sheet metal and borrow the big dog unit to do the heavy work of getting them down to bare metal.

I'd be taking them along with several other decrepit parts and a couple of 12 paks of Sierra Nevada Pale ale to lubricate the machinery...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458590http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458591

jman0war 06-16-15 09:31 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 17898824)
I dug them outta my shed this past weekend and have to say they're in pretty bad shape. Been two+ years since I dismantled the bike they were on so memory was fuzzy about exactly how much "patina" was involved.

Nonetheless, you're welcome to them if you pay shipping. My plans for them had been to one day, some day, take them to where one of my buddies is bead blasting some classic automobile sheet metal and borrow the big dog unit to do the heavy work of getting them down to bare metal.

I'd be taking them along with several other decrepit parts and a couple of 12 paks of Sierra Nevada Pale ale to lubricate the machinery...

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458590http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=458591

Thanks for coming back to the thread.
You're right they do have a pretty heavy patina.

But i'd be willing to see what I can do with them.
I'm a pretty crafty guy and I quite like the challenge.

not sure how I can get you my address or email address yet as i need to pad out my post count before PM's are available..


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