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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 08-08-19 04:48 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21064726)
Once again...These mid 70s Superbes would have come with B66 saddles and they are both gone. These bikes don't seem like they've been left out in the rain or ridden for thousands of miles. For whatever reason, the top of the line price tag doesn't seem reasonable without them.

I think Clubman is correct re the saddles in Canada.
Both of my Superbes came with a vinyl saddle.
I did pick up a nice brooks B33 at the bike show last week,
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c75d89b28.jpg
One of the vendors is a Pashley dealer and his customers often
don't want this saddle and swap them out on purchase.

gster 08-08-19 05:21 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21064851)
On a brighter note, my 57 Canadian fixed-wheel grew a new gear today. Alloy SR North Road bars, a Duomatic with a 21 tooth cog and a new to me 44 tooth crankset with 140mm arms. Doesn't look right without the webbing but I've ridden to town with it and I'm definitely in the honeymoon stage. The stem puts me out front enough to make the Champion Narrow saddle fit like it should, super comfortable. I can't get the mudguard line nice because the stays are cut short. I'll call it a scorcher even with the Bluemels. There's one real idiosyncratic element of the bike...if someone guesses correctly, I'll award a prize of some sort. (picture of me on my bike etc :eek:)

Sweet ride.
I've got a Glider with the same set up.
Duomatic/coaster on the back and single caliper up front.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52fc94df96.jpg
The bars are currently uprights.
Yes, you can lock up the rear wheel and "lay a patch" as
we used to say.

gster 08-08-19 05:32 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21065618)
Sweet ride.
I've got a Glider with the same set up.
Duomatic/coaster on the back and single caliper up front.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...52fc94df96.jpg
The bars are currently uprights.
Yes, you can lock up the rear wheel and "lay a patch" as
we used to say.

Here in Canada we had a special CCM Centenial Duomatic bike in 1967.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2df3e7b874.jpg
I've only seen them in this copper colour.
My understanding is that the hubs are great but the axle nuts
can fail and are hard to replace.

clubman 08-08-19 06:57 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 21065626)
I've only seen them in this copper colour.
My understanding is that the hubs are great but the axle nuts
can fail and are hard to replace.

All 3 of my Duomatics were harvested from clapped out CCM Centennials or the kids chopper-style model aptly named Duomatic. The junior bike had 28 spoke hubs, larger had 36. The hub axles are 10 mm diameter with a metric thread and are really hard to find, although I was able to source a pair from a guy who may or may not have more.



Originally Posted by bwilli88 (Post 21065314)
Road is mis-stamped on the bars

Bad picture. I wish I could find more of these.

browngw 08-08-19 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21065591)
I think Clubman is correct re the saddles in Canada.
Both of my Superbes came with a vinyl saddle.
I did pick up a nice brooks B33 at the bike show last week,
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5c75d89b28.jpg
One of the vendors is a Pashley dealer and his customers often
don't want this saddle and swap them out on purchase.

Another Canadian opinion on Brooks https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8f9c5dde38.jpg

As removed from 1979 DL1. Replaced with an 90s NOS B66.
saddles. Never have seen any 60s or 70s Raleighs with B66 and almost always with the black vinyl mattress style. The only exception were the B66 on the 79 DL1 and a Wrights leather saddle on a made in England Supercycle.

browngw 08-08-19 09:04 AM

Yesterdays ride was a solo trip through "Sherwood Forest" ( Lynn River Rail Trail)on the nearly fifty year old, made in England, 1971 Robin Hood "Sports Model" 3 speed. Turned around in Simcoe-on-the-Lynn and headed back to the shores of Dover. The faint click-click-click of the Sturmey Archer hub provided background music. Other than the Garmin and the SPD pedals looks quite vintage. I have swapped in my apple green B17 and am looking for some nice green bar tape to match. The Honey B67 I purchased for the RH now lives on the Royal Nord. Sorry about the phone quality pictures, forgot to pick up a camera on my way out.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d9e017ae3.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...119b04a67b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2ac9b0bff.jpg

Murray Missile 08-10-19 07:38 AM

Should I?
 
I wasn't really in the market for another one right now as I just bought a '77 Raleigh LTD-3 a few weeks ago to refurbish but this Royal Scot was recently listed locally on FB. It has the tall frame, although not quite tall enough for my 6' 1-1/2" but I can make it work. He's asking a bit more than I paid for thr LTD but I bought the LTD pretty cheap and I'm hoping I can talk him down a bit. From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970. I sent him a message to see if it's still available and to see if he had a picture of the drive side. Looks rough and I wouldn't do a repaint just clean it up well and clear coat it to preserve it then do an overhaul on all the mechanicals, I like the "rustic" look on this one. I plan to make some changes to the LTD but this one would remain pretty much original except for the seatpost and stem I'd need to make it fit me. Sure wish these had been made with a taller frame but......

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e31c17771f.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...74a120543d.jpg

BigChief 08-10-19 01:50 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21068828)
I wasn't really in the market for another one right now as I just bought a '77 Raleigh LTD-3 a few weeks ago to refurbish but this Royal Scot was recently listed locally on FB. It has the tall frame, although not quite tall enough for my 6' 1-1/2" but I can make it work. He's asking a bit more than I paid for thr LTD but I bought the LTD pretty cheap and I'm hoping I can talk him down a bit. From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970. I sent him a message to see if it's still available and to see if he had a picture of the drive side. Looks rough and I wouldn't do a repaint just clean it up well and clear coat it to preserve it then do an overhaul on all the mechanicals, I like the "rustic" look on this one. I plan to make some changes to the LTD but this one would remain pretty much original except for the seatpost and stem I'd need to make it fit me. Sure wish these had been made with a taller frame but......

This Royal Scot is 1963-1965. I think there's enough adjustment in the seat post and stem of a 23" Raleigh to accommodate a 6'1" rider. If not, stems with more length and or more reach are available.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 02:28 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069268)
This Royal Scot is 1963-1965. I think there's enough adjustment in the seat post and stem of a 23" Raleigh to accommodate a 6'1" rider. If not, stems with more length and or more reach are available.

If they're the same as my '77 LTD-3 then not quite enough stem and seat post for this 6' 1-1/2" rider but no problem I already have a longer stem in the same style and seat post. A '63 - '65 you say? Better yet! Thanks for the info. :thumb: I''m 99.99% it's going to "follow" me home. The '77 is going to get changed around a bit but this one will remain pretty much original except for the stem and seat post....... and that HUGE saddle. Fortunately I have a period correct saddle too.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 03:06 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21068828)
From the picture he posted of the rear hub I'll say it's a 1970.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069268)
This Royal Scot is 1963-1965.

Here's the rear hub, do you think it's been replaced at some point? I asked for pics of the drive side of the bike but the seller is out of town until tomorrow evening.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b966baadd8.jpg

BigChief 08-10-19 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21069363)
Here's the rear hub, do you think it's been replaced at some point? I asked for pics of the drive side of the bike but the seller is out of town until tomorrow evening.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b966baadd8.jpg

I think the hub/rear wheel was changed at some point. The 2 point chain guard, the grips, the pedals, the white fluted cable casings, the small rear reflector are all early 60s features.

Murray Missile 08-10-19 07:34 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21069597)
I think the hub/rear wheel was changed at some point. The 2 point chain guard, the grips, the pedals, the white fluted cable casings, the small rear reflector are all early 60s features.

That's good info to know. Will the serial number tell me anything? I have a SN breakdown sheet but it is from the 70's and the examples it gives start at 1973 so I don't know if it is applicable. If it's in any kind of salvageable shape at all it's coming home with me regardless of the year but it would be very cool if it was that much older. Ir would be even cooler though if it had it's original rear wheel but most people would never notice. If it is truly a '63-'65, and I'm not doubting you one bit, then that guarantees it staying as original as possible.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d95b6f0f8.jpg

thumpism 08-10-19 08:46 PM

The niece finally got her bike after a couple of weeks of missed connections. She had gone for a test ride and said it slips when pedaling so I adjusted the shift cable but further test rides indicated slipping in low and middle gears so I pulled the rear hub apart to find the innards lightly coated with a skim of rust-colored pudding. Old lube in a dried-out hub. I was worried about broken pawl springs but nothing was broken so I soaked everything, reassembled and lubed and it worked fine so I delivered it to the happy new owner. Free bike, free lock and free helmet; all she has to do is ride it.

Originally Posted by thumpism (Post 21049548)
Well, my wife's niece stopped by for a visit yesterday and she said she could use a town bike so my wife offered this one...
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c7a6062168.jpg


BigChief 08-11-19 03:56 AM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21069718)
That's good info to know. Will the serial number tell me anything? I have a SN breakdown sheet but it is from the 70's and the examples it gives start at 1973 so I don't know if it is applicable. If it's in any kind of salvageable shape at all it's coming home with me regardless of the year but it would be very cool if it was that much older. Ir would be even cooler though if it had it's original rear wheel but most people would never notice. If it is truly a '63-'65, and I'm not doubting you one bit, then that guarantees it staying as original as possible.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9d95b6f0f8.jpg

I'm pretty sure things like the reflector pedals and the bigger rear reflector that happened in the late 60s were meant to satisfy US regulations. I suppose it's possible that this bike was made with older components and imported anyway. Also, somebody here pointed out a later Canadian model that still used the old style 2 point chainguard. In any case, this bike is more like a mid 60s style than 70s.

gster 08-11-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21065939)
Yesterdays ride was a solo trip through "Sherwood Forest" ( Lynn River Rail Trail)on the nearly fifty year old, made in England, 1971 Robin Hood "Sports Model" 3 speed. Turned around in Simcoe-on-the-Lynn and headed back to the shores of Dover. The faint click-click-click of the Sturmey Archer hub provided background music. Other than the Garmin and the SPD pedals looks quite vintage. I have swapped in my apple green B17 and am looking for some nice green bar tape to match. The Honey B67 I purchased for the RH now lives on the Royal Nord. Sorry about the phone quality pictures, forgot to pick up a camera on my way out.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2d9e017ae3.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...119b04a67b.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a2ac9b0bff.jpg

I like that colour.
I've been riding my Rodin Hood Bitsa everyday this summer to work.
Last week a car turned in front of me and I locked up the rear wheel.
On a positive note the Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show was quite a success.
I didn't take any photos....

Murray Missile 08-11-19 07:49 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070020)
I'm pretty sure things like the reflector pedals and the bigger rear reflector that happened in the late 60s were meant to satisfy US regulations. I suppose it's possible that this bike was made with older components and imported anyway. Also, somebody here pointed out a later Canadian model that still used the old style 2 point chainguard. In any case, this bike is more like a mid 60s style than 70s.

Found pics of this 1971 a few minutes ago, pretty much the same as the one I'm going to look at except for the reflector pedals and much better condition.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14dd17c88c.jpg

BigChief 08-11-19 01:04 PM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21070203)
Found pics of this 1971 a few minutes ago, pretty much the same as the one I'm going to look at except for the reflector pedals and much better condition.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...14dd17c88c.jpg

Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard. Here's my '64. There are a few differences. The stamped mudguard stays and the overbearing seat tube transfer.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a48e8e5dd.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a88d86434.jpg

Murray Missile 08-11-19 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070521)
Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard.

I like that the '70 isn't much different from the earlier models., they must have figured if it ain't broke why fix it........ wish it had that cool seat tube decal like your '64 though.

UPDATE: Got some better pictures from the seller, it is a LOT worse than it looked in the pics they posted in the ad so I politely declined. No decals left whatsoever, front half of the rear fender bent up and heavy rust everywhere. It has clearly been laying on the weeds for several years.

Commando 08-11-19 07:01 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 21065914)
Another Canadian opinion on Brooks https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8f9c5dde38.jpg

As removed from 1979 DL1. Replaced with an 90s NOS B66.
saddles. Never have seen any 60s or 70s Raleighs with B66 and almost always with the black vinyl mattress style. The only exception were the B66 on the 79 DL1 and a Wrights leather saddle on a made in England Supercycle.

It may have been mentioned before, I have my Grandad's Nottingham built Superbe, which he bought new in Ottawa around 1975-6. It had a vinyl Brooks seat from new, which I've confirmed with him, as he never made any changes to the bike while he had it. I have since fitted a B66, however.

Grace Acebedo 08-11-19 08:50 PM

Hello guys! I wanna buy a peloton bike, but it is very expensive. What do you think?

jackbombay 08-11-19 09:45 PM

Buy an English 3 speed instead.

Ballenxj 08-11-19 09:52 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21071015)
Buy an English 3 speed instead.

Good answer, especially considering this is the "For the love of English Three Speeds" thread. :thumb:

BigChief 08-12-19 04:08 AM


Originally Posted by Murray Missile (Post 21070773)
I like that the '70 isn't much different from the earlier models., they must have figured if it ain't broke why fix it........ wish it had that cool seat tube decal like your '64 though.

UPDATE: Got some better pictures from the seller, it is a LOT worse than it looked in the pics they posted in the ad so I politely declined. No decals left whatsoever, front half of the rear fender bent up and heavy rust everywhere. It has clearly been laying on the weeds for several years.

I wouldn't put a lot of work into a bike like that either. On the other hand, a 50s Raleigh , Rudge or Birmingham basket case is always welcome.

gster 08-12-19 04:51 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21070521)
Looks like you're right. 1970, but with the 2 point chainguard. Here's my '64. There are a few differences. The stamped mudguard stays and the overbearing seat tube transfer.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2a48e8e5dd.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a88d86434.jpg

Q-?
Was Royal Scot a Raleigh sub brand?
I.e. sold through hardware stores, dept stores etc?

Murray Missile 08-12-19 05:38 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21071212)
Q-?
Was Royal Scot a Raleigh sub brand?
I.e. sold through hardware stores, dept stores etc?

Yes, a "lower grade" Raleigh but I'm not sure what outlets sold them. I believe they were more common out East than here in the Midwest. I had high hopes since this was a 23 inch but it was just too far gone and too new to make it worth it. If it had been out on the curb and I drove past I'm sure I would have stopped but I'm inclined to think I still would have left it there.


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