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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 01-24-20 04:57 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21297835)
Here's another Superbe offered for sale in Toronto.
Owner claims it to be all original
leather saddle...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0632802bfe.png

That's pretty much the Superbe we got in the states except they came with bronze green painted Raleigh rear carriers and ESGE kick stands as standard. PS...I'd get tired of seeing that overhead door pretty quick.

gster 01-24-20 05:06 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21298545)
That's pretty much the Superbe we got in the states except they came with bronze green painted Raleigh rear carriers and ESGE kick stands as standard. PS...I'd get tired of seeing that overhead door pretty quick.

Yeah, I think that rear rack has been replaced, so perhaps not as original as
stated,

Chr0m0ly 01-24-20 09:24 PM

What do you guys think about this 5 speed?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ccf224e.jpeg

I keep thinking I'd like to try out a Raliegh Sports or similar, but I'm worried about the weight. What are these, about 30ish pounds? Does it matter? What's the ride quality like?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bi...021216997.html

jackbombay 01-24-20 10:16 PM


Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly (Post 21298811)
What do you guys think about this 5 speed?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ccf224e.jpeg

I keep thinking I'd like to try out a Raliegh Sports or similar, but I'm worried about the weight. What are these, about 30ish pounds? Does it matter? What's the ride quality like?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bi...021216997.html

That is a bargain IMO, the S5 hub is really nice.

The steel rims are heavy and the brakes don't work well because of them.

If you throw some Sun ringle aluminum rims and new brake pads at the bike it will be quite enjoyable IMO.

IT looks like it still has the original top tube shifter, those are worth money, despite not being as nice as bar mounted trigger shifters.

Chr0m0ly 01-24-20 10:27 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21298853)
That is a bargain IMO, the S5 hub is really nice.

The steel rims are heavy and the brakes don't work well because of them.

If you throw some Sun ringle aluminum rims and new brake pads at the bike it will be quite enjoyable IMO.

IT looks like it still has the original top tube shifter, those are worth money, despite not being as nice as bar mounted trigger shifters.

The fork looks to need some straightening...

jackbombay 01-24-20 10:44 PM


Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly (Post 21298863)
The fork looks to need some straightening...

Indeed it does!

gster 01-25-20 09:53 AM


Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly (Post 21298811)
What do you guys think about this 5 speed?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ccf224e.jpeg

I keep thinking I'd like to try out a Raliegh Sports or similar, but I'm worried about the weight. What are these, about 30ish pounds? Does it matter? What's the ride quality like?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bi...021216997.html

That IS a good price.
Somewhat rare and a leather saddle!

BigChief 01-25-20 10:05 AM


Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly (Post 21298811)
What do you guys think about this 5 speed?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ccf224e.jpeg

I keep thinking I'd like to try out a Raliegh Sports or similar, but I'm worried about the weight. What are these, about 30ish pounds? Does it matter? What's the ride quality like?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bi...021216997.html

I'd have to run down and buy this one right away if it were near me. Looks to be a 68 or 69 Sprite in the very rare 23" frame. I'm not put off by the fork. I can't really even say it's bent or not from this photo, but It's a simple fix or even replace since it's the common Bronze Green. True, a full dress roadster is heavier than a chromoly touring bike, but they are not at all out of line with modern townies. This bike would weigh around 34 pounds. They have a very comfortable ride that's happy on poor or sandy road surfaces. Far less jarring and more secure to ride on less than perfect roads than my Motobecane GT. You can also get a much lighter feel from these bikes by swapping the steel rims for aluminum. And the awkward, imprecise shifting of the top tube shifters can be corrected by using handlebar mounted 3 speed triggers.

jackbombay 01-25-20 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21299201)
I'd have to run down and buy this one right away if it were near me.

If it was within 2 hours of my house I'd already have it.

Ballenxj 01-25-20 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by Chr0m0ly (Post 21298811)
What do you guys think about this 5 speed?
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89ccf224e.jpeg

I keep thinking I'd like to try out a Raliegh Sports or similar, but I'm worried about the weight. What are these, about 30ish pounds? Does it matter? What's the ride quality like?

https://longisland.craigslist.org/bi...021216997.html

I like that the fenders seem to fit correctly, as opposed to most that seem to be wonky.

JJScaliger 01-25-20 04:10 PM

Raleigh sports clubman/ ratrod
 
I bought this Raleigh Sports/ratrod this week to use as a commuter. A three speed seemed like a fun choice for my flat 10 mile round trip commute. I prefer drop bars instead of the wider more upright traditional bars found on most 3 speeds.

This bike caught my attention because it looks like someone had the same idea to make a cheap clubman a long time ago.

The wheels are 27" with Dunlap chromed steel rims and the hubs are Sturmey Archer rear Aw 68 and Philips front. The stem is a GB. The saddle is a Brooks B17 champion narrow. Pedals are Atom 700. Weinman sidepulls with weimann/carlton levers. The frame is a 21" Raleigh sports. It seems like whomever assembled this bike, years ago, had a clubman in mind in terms of quality.


https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6c1c40ed0d.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...36cc36976f.jpg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1c767a9ce7.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...526e400a02.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...32375b3c75.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...909069d445.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...268e16020e.jpg


I was stoked to ride my new 3 speed to work on Friday but immediate gratification was not to be. Unfortunately the SA chain indicator snapped in shipping and cable fastener on the chain stay was lost. In addition, the seller offered a new tire to replace the rear which had dry rot. A nice offer, but he sent me a 700c tire. Also the nipple on one spoke snapped. The tire and spoke nipple I solved easily from my shed stock. The three speed specific parts were a no go

Today I went to the local bike co -op to try and find the missing bits. This chain indicator is pretty close; a little longer. Sheldon said you can make them work sometimes if they're close. I couldn't find the other piece. I ordered replacement parts yesterday but it's supposed to be nice tomorrow and I wanted to get in a maiden ride.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ee66eedaf.jpg

jackbombay 01-25-20 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by JJScaliger (Post 21299601)
I bought this Raleigh Sports/ratrod this week to use as a commuter.

Today I went to the local bike co -op to try and find the missing bits. This chain indicator is pretty close; a little longer. Sheldon said you can make them work sometimes if they're close. I couldn't find the other piece. I ordered replacement parts yesterday but it's supposed to be nice tomorrow and I wanted to get in a maiden ride.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6ee66eedaf.jpg

Any indicator chain will work just fine, just put the bike ad shifter in 3rd gear and adjust the cable so it is a bit slack, just a little bit. If you have it too tight you will feel it when you shift into first gear, the last tiny bit of the shifter travel will be quite snug. Generally I tighten my cable till I feel that, then back it off just enough so I don't feel that, adjusting like this I never get "neutral" between 2nd and third.

BigChief 01-25-20 07:30 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21299659)
Any indicator chain will work just fine, just put the bike ad shifter in 3rd gear and adjust the cable so it is a bit slack, just a little bit. If you have it too tight you will feel it when you shift into first gear, the last tiny bit of the shifter travel will be quite snug. Generally I tighten my cable till I feel that, then back it off just enough so I don't feel that, adjusting like this I never get "neutral" between 2nd and third.

^^^this. Adjustment is only a matter of having the cable tight enough to engage low, slack enough to engage hi while avoiding the neutral spot between 2nd and 3rd. A useful tip: There's no need to tighten the indicator pin when you screw it into the hub. Back it off a bit so the chain can self level against the top of the axle nut. Looks like a good bike. Around here, we nickname these scorchers.

gster 01-26-20 03:29 AM

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e1cd90eef.jpg
The stamped eye on the heron reveals the chain ring and perhaps the frame is pre 1961.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...191d59eb35.jpg
Your fork appears to curve to the left in this photo.
Could be repaired or replaced.
Nice project

clubman 01-26-20 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by JJScaliger (Post 21299601)
I bought this Raleigh Sports/ratrod this week to use as a commuter.
Today I went to the local bike co -op to try and find the missing bits. This chain indicator is pretty close; a little longer. Sheldon said you can make them work sometimes if they're close. I couldn't find the other piece. I ordered replacement parts yesterday but it's supposed to be nice tomorrow and I wanted to get in a maiden ride.

You might consider changing the cable routing for the shifter to the top tube. It's easily done and it can better help to keep your gears properly adjusted. Just move the pulley from the bottom of the seat tube to the top
and move the fulcrum stop to the top tube. The cable then follows the seat stay down to the indicator chain. You mention a broken cable stop but you don't need one unless you're using a fully housed gear cable, which you're not.
The foil band decals on the seat tube are typical of the late 1960's, as is the old style font. I think it's a 68 bike that may have a few older parts on it. The brakes and bars are period correct so it's possible the bike came this way, maybe from Canada.

gster 01-26-20 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21300116)
Yes but the foil band decals on the seat tube are typical of the late 1960's, as is the old style font.

Obviously a "Bitsa" !

BigChief 01-26-20 12:13 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21300116)
You might consider changing the cable routing for the shifter to the top tube. It's easily done and it can better help to keep your gears properly adjusted. Just move the pulley from the bottom of the seat tube to the top
and move the fulcrum stop to the top tube. The cable then follows the seat stay down to the indicator chain. You mention a broken cable stop but you don't need one unless you're using a fully housed gear cable, which you're not.
The foil band decals on the seat tube are typical of the late 1960's, as is the old style font. I think it's a 68 bike that may have a few older parts on it. The brakes and bars are period correct so it's possible the bike came this way, maybe from Canada.

Almost positive the shift cable on this bike was top tube routed originally. Can't imagine why anyone would want to change it to step through style routing. It wasn't until the later 70s when the best engineering minds at SA couldn't come up with a way to make the guide wheel any more cheap and flimsy that they went with a fully housed, down tube routed cable to a stop on the chain stay.

JJScaliger 01-26-20 06:01 PM

Thanks for all the advise guys! I rerouted the cable and moved the cable stop and wheel to the top tube. The clamp for the cable stop barely fit on the down tube anyway.

I tried to squeeze in this set up between many family commitments today, but I was only able to get 2 gears to work. I was able to get all three shifter positions to click, but 1 and 2 seem like the same gear. I had to have the cable super slack or it wouldn't engage into 3. That cable is kind of kinked and I'm not sure if a longer indicator chain would prevent getting the correct tension.

I spent about 45 minutes adjusting it and test riding but I gave up and went for a ride on one of my other bikes before I lost the daylight.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...81a58e060f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c5ebd6a24d.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f0761c7948.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d6d28489c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8569a4e202.jpg
maybe someone can see something I'm missing. The cable seems way too slack to me.

Thanks again!

I also switched the front wheel to a milremo hub with a sturmey archer 27" chromed rim I had from another old bike. The Philips hub on the previous wheel needs some work. Those crappy kenda tires came with that other wheelset. They need to go asap.

clubman 01-26-20 06:33 PM

There's a few things to try to get it smooth. The indicator chain you have is fine if you thread it into the hub (hint of oil/grease on threads) and back it off at least a half turn or more to get the chain oriented so it bends neatly over the flange of the indicator axle nut. The chain is square in section so turn it the minimum until it makes that bend gracefully. (you appear to have this perfect) Adjust the position of the fulcrum stop on the top tube until it leaves just the tiniest of slack in the cable in 1st gear and then use the indicator adjuster to dial it in and use the lock nut to cinch it down once you're got it. There are ways of using the window on the indicator nut to tweak but the 'just slack' method is fine and easy. Put 3 or 4 drops of light machine oil in the hub port (every 4 months or so) and don't use 3-in-1 vegetable based oil. It needs to be dino or it will gum up.

jackbombay 01-26-20 07:35 PM

The kinky cable is your problem.

When it was in 1st/2nd and you couldn't notice a difference between the 2 gears did you hear the freewheel click sound in both of those gears while you were pedalling? If you are actually in 1st gear you will not get the freewheel clicking sound when you pedal, but you will get it in second gear, and 3rd.

The kinky cable means that you are wasting shifter cable pull getting the cable pulled taught instead of the cable pull changing gears.

gster 01-26-20 10:00 PM


Originally Posted by jackbombay (Post 21300963)
The kinky cable is your problem.

When it was in 1st/2nd and you couldn't notice a difference between the 2 gears did you hear the freewheel click sound in both of those gears while you were pedalling? If you are actually in 1st gear you will not get the freewheel clicking sound when you pedal, but you will get it in second gear, and 3rd.

The kinky cable means that you are wasting shifter cable pull getting the cable pulled taught instead of the cable pull changing gears.

I agree, that shifter cable looks pooched.

jackbombay 01-27-20 12:46 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21300863)
Put 3 or 4 drops of light machine oil in the hub port (every 4 months or so) and don't use 3-in-1 vegetable based oil. It needs to be dino or it will gum up.

Lately I have been using the 3 in 1 "motor oil" which is 20 weight, maybe a bit thick, but it should protect parts quite well, supposedly designed for larger electric motors, the SDS sheet for it states its %96 mineral oil. Somewhere I read, I believe in some Sturmey literature, that they recommend 20 weight oil for their hubs, but I have tried to find where I read that and have been unable to find it. I know that these hubs will be pretty happy with just about any oil that doesn't gum up, but I like messing around with different oils to see if I can tell a difference.

https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/3inon...-motor-oil.pdf

Here is the SDS sheet for all purpose 3 in 1, its mostly made up of "Severely Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic Oil", I can say I'm not totally sure what that means!

https://files.wd40.com/pdf/sds/3inon...ping-spout.pdf

For oiling a hub that I don't know the history of I'll generally add a full teaspoon to it initially, and it will be a bit of a mess for a month or so, but it cleans up easy enough with a wheel brush and some simple green, at that point I know it has plenty of oil so I then back off to the 3-4 drops every 4 months or so that you recommend.

BigChief 01-27-20 06:15 AM

When hubs have been sitting unused for years, oil can dry out and leave a sticky mess. Usually, it's the pawls that stick, but sometimes the clutch plate won't want to slide up and down smoothly. An easy way to tell is to disconnect the cable and operate the indicator chain by hand while you spin the wheel. If it operates smoothly and all gears engage, you know you have a cable/adjustment problem and the hub is fine.

gster 01-27-20 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21301353)
When hubs have been sitting unused for years, oil can dry out and leave a sticky mess. Usually, it's the pawls that stick, but sometimes the clutch plate won't want to slide up and down smoothly. An easy way to tell is to disconnect the cable and operate the indicator chain by hand while you spin the wheel. If it operates smoothly and all gears engage, you know you have a cable/adjustment problem and the hub is fine.

There are only two things that can mess these hubs up and there's no way of knowing who's
worked on/messed up over the past 50+ years
1-Over tightening-
inexperienced mechanics over tighten the hub and can strip the sun gear.
there needs to be a little "play" in the hub
2-Lack of use-
A hub that has sat for a number of years can gum up as the oil pools at the bottom and
moisture can migrate in allowing oxidation.
It's rare to find any real damage to the internal parts.

Salubrious 01-27-20 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by JJScaliger (Post 21300825)
T
I tried to squeeze in this set up between many family commitments today, but I was only able to get 2 gears to work. I was able to get all three shifter positions to click, but 1 and 2 seem like the same gear. I had to have the cable super slack or it wouldn't engage into 3. That cable is kind of kinked and I'm not sure if a longer indicator chain would prevent getting the correct tension.




https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1d6d28489c.jpg

Someone hinted at a possible problem. Check your end float on the hub. The cones must have ever so slight amount of slop. You can check this at the rim- it should be able to move ever so slightly from side to side. If there is no play in the bearing cones the hub will not shift correctly and can be damaged!

Also- do not throw the old toogle chain out. The damaged links can be repaired using a nail of the right size as a rivet. I think the original rivets are harder, but in practice they don't have a lot of tension on them. I've been running a toggle chain repaired in this manner for the last 12 years.


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