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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 10-01-17 05:16 AM


Originally Posted by johnnyspaghetti (Post 19898957)
I haven't even climbed on this thing yet for a spin although told it rode well the day I got it. I will persue used red fender in good shape. there are a lot of red Bikes of this type out there I just need to find one. I saw red fenders on Ebay one day I think were reasonably priced. This one has the wire fender stays. I have a green Raleigh frt fnder but it has the half round steel fender stays. I do need to sort out the shift cable configuration as you can see the rt. cable is routed down to the bottom bracket Which cries out being wrong to me. I am going to start gathering odds & ends for this 5 Speed. I am very curious how the gears behave with my riding habits.

Here's how the S5 ratios compare with a normal AW hub. With the bell crank disengaged, you have a wonderful medium spread that's perfect for flat country. When you engage the bell crank you get a super wide ratio spread. Personally I have no use for the crazy tall top gear, but the granny at first is very useful. 2nd is the same in either the wide or medium mode, so sometimes in hilly places I'll ride in wide mode so I have easy access to the granny when I shift into 1st. The right side 3 speed works just as smoothly as an AW, but it takes some finesse to coax the bell crank to shift modes.
S5
medium mode
1st -21%
2nd 0
3rd + 26.6%
wide mode
1st -33.5%
2nd 0
3rd +50%

AW hub
1st -25%
2nd 0
3rd +33%
edit: I should modify that last statement. It's only tricky to shift the bell crank up into the wide ratio mode. If you already have the crank engaged, the bell crank slips easily back into medium mode when you release tension on the cable. To get the hub into wide, you have to pull on the shifter, keep tension on the cable, freewheel and rotate the crank until you feel it clunk into gear.

BigChief 10-01-17 08:22 AM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19898505)
That's what I would call deep knowledge. Stuff I am still chasing about these machines. You did a great job bringing that green machine back to the road!

Thanks!
Even though this project is already way under water, it turned out to be a nice ride. Did about 10 miles on it yesterday. Looks like I'm going to have to spring for a nice saddle.

Scipunk 10-01-17 08:45 AM

Quick question, could I use a gold bmx style chain or are they different than the 3 speed in length etc?

BigChief 10-01-17 09:22 AM

I got a great deal on gold 1/8" KMC chains a while back and have been using them the last few years. They come with 112 links and a master link. That happens to be exactly the length I need for my DL1 with 46Tx22T gearing, but too long for a Sports. For my sports, I end up taking off a few links, but yeah, 1/8" single speed chain is what you want for a 3 speed.

Scipunk 10-01-17 11:00 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19899523)
I got a great deal on gold 1/8" KMC chains a while back and have been using them the last few years. They come with 112 links and a master link. That happens to be exactly the length I need for my DL1 with 46Tx22T gearing, but too long for a Sports. For my sports, I end up taking off a few links, but yeah, 1/8" single speed chain is what you want for a 3 speed.

Thanks man appreciate the info, I don’t mean to copy anyone but the gold will look great against the coffee color of the 73.

In other news I got the Columbia today and it’s really nice the SA hub sadly has no date code but is a AW so that a plus!
The shifter is smooth but is missing the plastic cover sadly. Both wheels need to be trued and it needs tires and brake pads but over all it rides really nice and just need a general clean up as it was last riden this past spring. Paint is solid but the stickers are peeling off. Oh and the middle attachment rivet for the back fender is busted which is boggling as this bike seems to have never been hit or damaged. I’ll have better pics up later today :)

adventurepdx 10-01-17 12:52 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19899145)
I just think (my opinion) that the bag's size is disproportionate to the bike itself and visually weighs it down. I tried a bag on the back of mine and came to the same conclusion.
Just sayin'....

So what kind/size of bag do you use on your three speeds? Or do you not use any bags?

3speedslow 10-01-17 01:24 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19899442)
Quick question, could I use a gold bmx style chain or are they different than the 3 speed in length etc?

Most will be fine as long as they are 1/8 sized. I prefer to use a black chain, my preference. Be careful of the 1/2 link chains they sell now, might not work on the Sport.

3speedslow 10-01-17 03:35 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I got some time to take the bike out for another spin. Did a few items first. Changed the bag out to the original for a comparison shot. Found some steel platform pedals that suited my knees. Did a bolt check and found some that could stand a little bit more tightening. Did a slight adjust on the shift cable, works great through multiple shifts up and down. Gearing is 46X20. While out on a ride, had a panic stop and passed that! I think I still am going to move the shifter under the bar.
It was a ride worthy of the 3 Speed challenge !

clubman 10-01-17 04:02 PM

Great looking bike 3speedslow. Don't panic!

Ballenxj 10-01-17 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19900145)
I got some time to take the bike out for another spin. Did a few items first. Changed the bag out to the original for a comparison shot. Found some steel platform pedals that suited my knees. Did a bolt check and found some that could stand a little bit more tightening. Did a slight adjust on the shift cable, works great through multiple shifts up and down. Gearing is 46X20. While out on a ride, had a panic stop and passed that! I think I still am going to move the shifter under the bar.
It was a ride worthy of the 3 Speed challenge !

Pretty SPIFFY looking Bike. :thumb:

Scipunk 10-01-17 04:16 PM

Is there some magic concoction that you all use to remove grease / grime off the frame? I don’t mind using elbow grease but my lord simple green isn’t cutting it lol

I assume actuall degreasers are too strong?

nlerner 10-01-17 04:25 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19900215)
Is there some magic concoction that you all use to remove grease / grime off the frame? I donít mind using elbow grease but my lord simple green isnít cutting it lol

I assume actuall degreasers are too strong?

I've actually been going straight to polishing compound:

https://sep.yimg.com/ay/rodi/turtle-...compound-2.png

With a little elbow grease, the original finish usually comes through quite well.

gster 10-01-17 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19900145)
I got some time to take the bike out for another spin. Did a few items first. Changed the bag out to the original for a comparison shot. Found some steel platform pedals that suited my knees. Did a bolt check and found some that could stand a little bit more tightening. Did a slight adjust on the shift cable, works great through multiple shifts up and down. Gearing is 46X20. While out on a ride, had a panic stop and passed that! I think I still am going to move the shifter under the bar.
It was a ride worthy of the 3 Speed challenge !

I'm jealous again!
Damn it!

3speedslow 10-01-17 05:11 PM

Hot soapy water and a rag.
WD-40 and and clean rags
Polish compounds

In that order generally.

clubman 10-01-17 05:42 PM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19900215)
Is there some magic concoction that you all use to remove grease / grime off the frame? I don’t mind using elbow grease but my lord simple green isn’t cutting it lol

I assume actuall degreasers are too strong?

Beware Simple Green as well. Nothing green about it.

Scipunk 10-01-17 05:44 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19900235)
I've actually been going straight to polishing compound:

https://sep.yimg.com/ay/rodi/turtle-...compound-2.png

With a little elbow grease, the original finish usually comes through quite well.

Good to know, ill give that a shot!


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19900307)
Hot soapy water and a rag.
WD-40 and and clean rags
Polish compounds

In that order generally.

I figured but man the BB on the columbia is coated...lol


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19900363)
Beware Simple Green as well. Nothing green about it.

I've heard this more and more, kinda makes me worried :(

plympton 10-01-17 06:20 PM

Before i grab my hammer. How does the fork crown race come off?

PilotFishBob 10-01-17 06:39 PM


Originally Posted by plympton (Post 19900440)
Before i grab my hammer. How does the fork crown race come off?

I picked up a tool for that on Amazon from Bike Hand. Cheap (about $24) but does the trick. But yes, you still whack the tool with a hammer.


clubman 10-01-17 07:09 PM

I gently use a small drift on exposed edges, alternating until I can get an appropriate spanner underneath for the final rap.

SirMike1983 10-01-17 08:43 PM

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Q8Syx6gW_...001_134709.jpg

https://bikeshedva.blogspot.com/2017...ports-and.html

Awhile back I mentioned that Raleigh changed its drop-out mounting style over the years on the Sports/Sprite frame. I finally got a couple good pictures while cleaning and comparing two bikes: a 1970-ish Sprite and a 1958 Sports.

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oLsCQuocK...001_134802.jpg

The 1958 Sports has round profile drops. The fork blade tubs have a round mouth, and the drop out brazed into place. Interestingly, this was a transitional era: the rear drops are NOT round mount, but are slice-n-braze type.

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-BCwLJv_D5...001_134807.jpg

Above is the "slice and braze" style. This is what we usually see because we see so many 1960s-70s era Raleighs. The tube is sliced such that you have a "tongue" and the drop is brazed into place like a "sandwich" method.

This is just for the Sports/Sprite frame. Perhaps the DL-1 and export models used a different convention over the years.

BigChief 10-02-17 05:59 AM

@sirMike What a great thread. I learn so much here

johnnyspaghetti 10-02-17 08:11 AM

Thanks for that link, I'm floored! I had a 58 sports (not a 4 speed) in the early 80's that was arguably just as nice. Also the first example Ive seen of the Sprite shift set-up unmolested.

johnnyspaghetti 10-02-17 08:51 AM

Found this 71 Sports yesterday on the Neighborhood website $25. Hasn't been out of his garage for 20 yrs. The "Raleigh N.T.L." branded tires hold air. Chrome is excellent after an hour with a toothbrush. & it rides well. Pedal pads indicate its been barely ridden. No nuts have ever had a tool placed on them. https://mail.google.com/mail/?ui=2&i...5552-local0&zw

plympton 10-02-17 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19900546)
I gently use a small drift on exposed edges, alternating until I can get an appropriate spanner underneath for the final rap.

Pilotfishbob and Clubman, Thank you I'll try the the tap it out method although I may end up buying the tool as I have four to do.
Sirmike. The 49 and 52 drop outs that I have a different than those two. Beautiful bikes.
When restoring don't you guys look for the 26tpi nuts and bolt?

3speedslow 10-02-17 09:06 AM

Not seeing the pic. Great find!

rubah 10-02-17 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19884251)
I'm going to get on my soap box and put in my 2 cents about brakes on light roadsters. The extra money spent on salmon Kool Stop pads is worth every cent. They clearly out perform the cheap gray pads and even Fibrax. And if you're replacing a set of John Bulls that have been on the bike since 1974, you'll be entering a new universe of stopping power. Lately, I've been playing around customizing my Rudge scorcher. I installed a pair of Tektro R559 dual pivots mostly for the cool factor. Would I use these on a regular light roadster? NO. The combination of the Raleigh lever and the long cable housing just doesn't have enough travel to operate the Tektro properly. I was very fussy truing the side to side on these rims. They're very close. I had the pads adjusted a mouse whisker away from the rims and still, too much of the lever travel was used up before full brake. Adding the cable stops to the top tube and eliminating 18" of housing did buy me more room than I thought. The rear brake is good now, but all and all, it is a lot of extra trouble to go through for only a marginal improvement. Unless you're a scorcher and don't want all that extra weight of steel calipers slowing you down.

I had some Tektro559 installed on my ladies Sport that I thought were pretty umimpressive, but after fiddling with the knob to take up slack at the end, I was able to get them a lot better than they'd been before. I think that might say more about me, though

plympton 10-02-17 01:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
A while back I mentioned that Raleigh changed its drop-out mounting style over the years on the Sports/Sprite frame. I finally got a couple good pictures while cleaning and comparing two bikes: a 1970-ish Sprite and a 1958 Sports.


I am wrong again. The drop out on my 52 is the slice and braze. The 49 is pressed?Attachment 583012

BigChief 10-02-17 01:34 PM


Originally Posted by rubah (Post 19902159)
I had some Tektro559 installed on my ladies Sport that I thought were pretty umimpressive, but after fiddling with the knob to take up slack at the end, I was able to get them a lot better than they'd been before. I think that might say more about me, though

My problem was that the greater mechanical advantage of the dual pivot calipers used up too much travel of the rear brake lever. Using cable stops on the top tube and eliminating 18" of cable housing didn't add much, maybe a half inch of travel, but was just enough to make it work for me. The front brake with the shorter cable was OK. That was my clue that housing compression was using up lever travel that was in short supply.

Scipunk 10-02-17 01:38 PM

So i got 3 n 1 oil and marine grease today and added some oil to the 73's hub which was a fiasco to say the least. However i realized that the 73 hub doesn't click at all when coasting, i thought it did but it instead makes that groaning sound...lol. I am gonna pull it apart and see if something is broken. What is the normal clicking on them is it the clutch?

plympton 10-02-17 02:22 PM

2 Attachment(s)
Attachment 583020

Attachment 583021Picking these two up on Thursday. $30 each. Now with four I hope to make three. A 52 mens, a 52 ladies and A 49 mens.


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