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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

speedevil 05-19-18 08:22 AM

The tubs I previously glued were the yellow jersey specials at $50 for 3. I'm tempted to reglue them and use them for a while. Then perhaps upgrade to higher end tubs. Still not sure on the tape vs glue. I have also read about the tufo tape being difficult to remove, hence my interest in the Caronga tape. Trying to decide if $15 per wheel for the Caronga tape is worth it to glue on $17 tubs.

But you're correct @jcb3 it would be frustrating to tape on a high end tub and then get a flat right away. Not sure it would put me off tubs, but don't know if I would stay with the more expensive tubs or save a little $$ on the replacement. I've been lucky and only had a single flat in the past 3k miles, a pinch flat that was no one's fault but my own. I've been using Michelin Pro3/4 clinchers.

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

Steve Whitlatch 05-19-18 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348454)
The tubs I previously glued were the yellow jersey specials at $50 for 3. I'm tempted to reglue them and use them for a while. Then perhaps upgrade to higher end tubs. Still not sure on the tape vs glue. I have also read about the tufo tape being difficult to remove, hence my interest in the Caronga tape. Trying to decide if $15 per wheel for the Caronga tape is worth it to glue on $17 tubs.

But you're correct @jcb3 it would be frustrating to tape on a high end tub and then get a flat right away. Not sure it would put me off tubs, but don't know if I would stay with the more expensive tubs or save a little $$ on the replacement. I've been lucky and only had a single flat in the past 3k miles, a pinch flat that was no one's fault but my own. I've been using Michelin Pro3/4 clinchers.

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

You may as well get your first gluing under your belt. You can`t ride tubs without being able to talk about gluing from experience. It`s part of the whole coolness of tubs. :)

speedevil 05-19-18 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20348468)
You may as well get your first gluing under your belt. You can`t ride tubs without being able to talk about gluing from experience. It`s part of the whole coolness of tubs. :)

Already lost that cherry. But it's been 2 years since I glued them, so maybe not a surprise that the glue has dried out. I used Panaracer glue that time. I think, since I've already got the Panaracer glue, that I'll just reglue them using that.

Unless, of course, Panaracer glue wasn't a good choice.

Steve Whitlatch 05-19-18 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348509)
Already lost that cherry. But it's been 2 years since I glued them, so maybe not a surprise that the glue has dried out. I used Panaracer glue that time. I think, since I've already got the Panaracer glue, that I'll just reglue them using that.

Unless, of course, Panaracer glue wasn't a good choice.

First it was my hearing, then my eyes, now my reading comprehension is fading. I am getting old. LOL :)

Peugeotlover 05-19-18 10:06 AM

Half a tube of the 1.1 fl.oz. Panaracer rim cement (one tube is just enough to mount two tubulars), in small beads between the spoke holes, let set for 10 minutes,
then, starting with the air valve inserted, mount the pre-stretched Servizio Corsa tubular tire.
Inflate partially, center on the rim to perfection, then fully inflate.
Let dry overnight.
This has worked well for me for 6 years, never had a tire come loose. Easy enough to remove when necessary.

Wildwood 05-19-18 10:52 AM

I've never taped, but either tape or glue should work sufficiently well.

As to the tires - my logic says:
1. I want a better ride feel and smoother cornering
2. I want the 'tubular advantage' on my nicer bikes
3. I acquired good wheels for this build
4. I will finish this job with quality tires

Why compromise or sacrifice 1/2/3 for the sake of saving $40-$50?
UK sales sites still have the best deals.

CV-6 05-19-18 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348454)

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

I would glue them. I taped a set and the basetape on the tires started separating.

jimmuller 05-19-18 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 20348737)
I've never taped, but either tape or glue should work sufficiently well.

As to the tires - my logic says:
1. I want a better ride feel and smoother cornering
2. I want the 'tubular advantage' on my nicer bikes
3. I acquired good wheels for this build
4. I will finish this job with quality tires

'Zactly. If you are going through the "trouble" of tubulars go with the best tires you can manage.

Wildwood 05-19-18 02:02 PM

For a bargain (spare?) tire, Vittoria's Rally is my favorite. I bought 4 last year on sale (PBK.com) to be used as spares. Current prices seem to be around $25-ish. I like the cotton casing which (IMHO) delivers a soft ride. Or maybe it's nostalgia, as they were my first 2 sets of tubies - and taught me a lot about how to mount tires minimizing the possibility of 'lumpy' spots. Please don't misunderstand, Rally's don't hold a candle to the more supple high TPI offerings.

smontanaro 05-19-18 02:05 PM

i bought some new and lightly used Veloflex tubulars off The Paceline awhile ago. The used ones had been taped and I had trouble getting the leftover tape bits off. I dropped the Tufo folks a note. The woman who responded said to just work at it with pliers, etc. She also said something like, "Don't people read the warnings that our tape is only for use with Tufo tires?" I wonder if Tufo perhaps has some super duper glue which reduces the chance of the base tape separating from the casing...

CV-6 05-19-18 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20349014)
i bought some new and lightly used Veloflex tubulars off The Paceline awhile ago. The used ones had been taped and I had trouble getting the leftover tape bits off. I dropped the Tufo folks a note. The woman who responded said to just work at it with pliers, etc. She also said something like, "Don't people read the warnings that our tape is only for use with Tufo tires?" I wonder if Tufo perhaps has some super duper glue which reduces the chance of the base tape separating from the casing...

I have news for the lady. Their tape is a PITA to get off of Tufo tires also.

Wileyone 05-22-18 05:12 AM

Not sure if anyone is interested in blackwalls but PBK has the Michelin Pro 4's on for $50 each. i bought a set last year and they are every bit as nice as the Vittoria Corsas at almost 1/2 the price.

https://www.probikekit.ca/bicycle-ty...ntrySelected=Y

noglider 05-22-18 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20342299)
Didn't know Panaracer made tubulars. Might be the finishing touch on your vintage keirin restoration:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222893304912

That listing says the tires are new, but it's clear that they're not.

CV-6 05-22-18 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20353587)
That listing says the tires are new, but it's clear that they're not.

I think they are NOS. Just not well stored.

cdmurphy 05-22-18 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 20353715)
I think they are NOS. Just not well stored.

I agree. They're just 30+ years old. I wouldn't dream of putting them on a bike to ride, but they would be just the thing for a Japanese wall hanger.

crank_addict 05-22-18 10:27 AM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2be6dfe872.jpg
New Panaracer Practice on the Viscount w/ Super Champion Mixte rims. Me likey.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b803a2616.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a90c3a72be.jpg

RobbieTunes 05-27-18 11:29 AM

Tuck tape, Panaracer tubs....
 
I've had little issue with Tufo tape, and re-used it, probably not a recommendation.

Panaracer also makes/made a Practice 320, and I like my set, which is also taped on.

Not sure if I will continue buying the tubular clincher Tufo tires, unless they can get to 25's, which may solve their issue with a harsh ride unless you get the psi just right. They wear like iron, so far, but a change would be nice. Their normal tubulars are excellent gravel tires, and the higher end road tires are great, but the price point is right there with other really nice tires.

Lazyass 06-17-18 05:30 PM

So I got a slow leak on my rear Vredestein Frecca, then it because a pretty fast leak. I didn't see any puncture so I put the tire in water and the leak is coming from the bottom of the tire from who knows what. I have my little 5ml bottle of Stan's sealant I carry on rides, I squirted half of it in and it's totally sealed up now. When I wear these tires out I'm going to get the Specialized Espoir's.

Wildwood 08-14-18 05:47 PM

So,….. I had never ridden a really high end clincher tire on a light wheelset -- and I have been reading so many comments that the differences with tubulars are minimal -- that I needed to check it out.

Vittoria Graphene+ 25s, latex tubes pumped to 110f/115r, on Mavic Open 4 CD rims delivers a wonderful ride. Smooth, supple, excellent traction. However, the tire profile is not as round as tubulars so a series of quick turns isn't as smooth. Guess I need to test these tires on a wider rim as a final test.

Bottom line = tubulars are still a superior handling tire over high-end clinchers.

smontanaro 08-15-18 05:01 AM

That's some serious pressure. I generally ride with 60f/80r, maybe 90 if I'm loaded down a bit. Tubulars or clinchers.

63rickert 08-15-18 08:48 AM

Skip

60 psi is probably enough, with reservations. Are you sure your gauge is accurate? When gauges are off, and most are, they will more likely give a high reading than a low reading. For those who pump to 140psi it just doesn't matter if the real pressure is 120. If your 60 was really 50 it could matter. There is a situation where how-low-can-you-go stops working, even if it feels fine while just riding along. Downhill nearly all the weight of bike and rider is on front wheel. Under hard braking all of the weight of bike and rider is on front wheel. Braking on a bike will produce a maximum g force of 0.5 to 0.6. So under hard braking 200# of bike and rider place a load of 300-320# on the front tire. Again, for those who inflate high it won't matter. If anything compressing the tire against the road a bit probably improves handling. But if the real pressure is 45 or 55 who knows. And then you hit a rock or a pothole. There is a whole lot of practical experience that says many of the fine distinctions us obsessives indulge make no difference. There is not all that much practical experience with quality supple tubulars at real low pressures. In the context of riding bikes daily on public roads the ultra low pressure CX riders have been using for only a few years doesn't count.

Patriot1 08-15-18 09:01 AM


Originally Posted by shakeNbake (Post 5927298)
Hey guys,
I've decided to dabble into the dark arts (tubulars), so I bought a pair of used Mavic GP 4. Now the question is, should I clean the old glue off the rims?


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2154/...c8d36467_o.jpg

I use acetone free finger nail polish remover remove all of the glue. I use Tufo tape and it works fine and I have no concerns about rolling a tire off the rim.
The tape is also much easier to remove than the glue and removes much cleaner. FWIW...

Patriot1 08-15-18 09:03 AM

I carry my spare tub in this saddles bag.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...739d55248.jpeg

Wileyone 08-15-18 09:13 AM

Has anyone tried the Challenge Elite Pros? They are on sale at PBK for $31.49. I have tried cheap Tubs mainly the Giros and the Rallies and wasn't impressed. I was wondering if these are any better?

https://www.probikekit.ca/bicycle-ty...chcurrency=USD

jimmuller 08-15-18 10:25 AM

IIRC, I've tried removing old glue with acetone, and it didn't work very well. I should try again, I suppose. However when I just re-glue onto such rims and then have to remove one that flatted the tires hold very nicely. So mostly I don't worry about it.

I had a flat on a new-ish Veloflex a few weeks ago. I had put some Stan's into it but it didn't seal itself very well. I did manage to ride the remaining way home. Maybe it wasn't enough so I added more Stan's, pumped it up, saw a little white puddle form on the floor. Hmm. :( Pumped it up, watched the leak subside. Pumped it up to 140psi, my usual start-ride pressure. Rubbed my hand over the leak area and made the leak spring again. Apparently I had broken off part of the seal which had protruded to the edge of the tread. Rotated the tire so that the fluid would settle in the leak area, pumped it further. Let it subside. Rubbed my hand over it again later, no leak. Is it fixed, I wonder? How robust would it be? I decided not to risk starting a morning commute on it, grabbed another bike. The seal still held some time later. I may deflate the tire and try closing the moderate cut in the tread with mastic, then re-inflate for a test ride.

SJX426 08-15-18 10:37 AM

@shakeNbake - I realize this is a looooooong thread, but in it is a recommendation to use a BRASS wire wheel. It worked really well for me and did not score the finish on the rim. Much faster than using chem's/

squirtdad 08-15-18 05:58 PM

Challenge Criterium Tubular (320TPI) black and white $31.93


https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/chall...0tpi/#pid=6584

Wileyone 08-15-18 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by squirtdad (Post 20508609)

Challenge Criterium Tubular (320TPI) black and white $31.93


https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/chall...0tpi/#pid=6584

But only in 22m. Those Day's are over.

Lenton58 08-16-18 02:28 AM


Originally Posted by 63rickert (Post 20507556)
Skip
60 psi is probably enough, with reservations. Are you sure your gauge is accurate? When gauges are off, and most are, they will more likely give a high reading than a low reading. For those who pump to 140psi it just doesn't matter if the real pressure is 120. If your 60 was really 50 it could matter.

I agree. You might get away with 60 psi if your gauge is accurate. But why? I weigh 74 kg. I use about 100 in the rear ... or whatever is needed to rid of any distortion on the road with my sitting in the saddle. In the front, 80 psi is my usual preference.

Lenton58 08-16-18 02:38 AM


Originally Posted by shakeNbake (Post 5927298)
Hey guys,
I've decided to dabble into the dark arts (tubulars), so I bought a pair of used Mavic GP 4. Now the question is, should I clean the old glue off the rims?

My opinion: yes, ALL of it, and down to the bone when the glue is browned off and dry. I use a wire wheel on the hardened, brown stuff. If it is still a bit pliable, I soften the glue with acetone and then use a trusty SPOON with a front edge that closely conforms with the dish in the rim. Works a treat!


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