Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Scipunk 09-21-17 08:07 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by rhm (Post 19877226)
Well, no. But practically speaking, nearly all garden variety spoke nipples are chromed brass and are close enough to the same size to work for this purpose. If you see a junked bike wheel in the trash and clip a few spokes out of it and take the nipples, odds are close to 100% they'll work fine. Don't try to build a wheel with them, though.

But no, to properly answer your question, there are aluminum ones, and steel ones, and all kinds of funky ones that go on various non-traditional spokes. Avoid anything like that. The ordinary brass ones are perfect.

See i would have not known any of that, i do build a lot of models etc so I'm no stranger to brass tubing, but if i can snag some from a wheel, free is free...lol

One more question, my 64 is missing it's shifter cable which has to go through a guide and then a jockey wheel but i have zero clue how it attaches to the chain end.
This is how i got it, so i am missing the other piece that's attached to the cable for adjusting? I'll be updating from the grip shifter to a thumb one and it's a AW hub so hopefully its all good.

rhm 09-21-17 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19877238)
See i would have not known any of that, i do build a lot of models etc so I'm no stranger to brass tubing, but if i can snag some from a wheel, free is free...lol

One more question, my 64 is missing it's shifter cable which has to go through a guide and then a jockey wheel but i have zero clue how it attaches to the chain end.
This is how i got it, so i am missing the other piece that's attached to the cable for adjusting? I'll be updating from the grip shifter to a thumb one and it's a AW hub so hopefully its all good.

The Sturmey Archer cable has a barrel end. The barrel threads onto the threaded rod you see, at the end of the chain in your photo. If you want to make your own cable (with the crimper and bronze sleeves as mentioned) you need an old Sturmey Archer cable to reuse the pieces. If you don't have an old cable, might as well buy a new 'universal' one. New ones are not generally as nice as the old ones, but they're easy to find.

bazil4696 09-21-17 08:47 AM

The Park Tools cable cutters (CN-10) have a ferrule crimping slot built into them that might be the tool most guys already have in their kit.

Cold forged, heat treated steel handles for strength
Precision ground cutting jaws for a clean cut on every cable
Built in crimper for cable end caps and forming hole for reforming housing ends and housing ferrules
Wire latch holds handles together when not in use

Scipunk 09-21-17 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 19877267)
The Sturmey Archer cable has a barrel end. The barrel threads onto the threaded rod you see, at the end of the chain in your photo. If you want to make your own cable (with the crimper and bronze sleeves as mentioned) you need an old Sturmey Archer cable to reuse the pieces. If you don't have an old cable, might as well buy a new 'universal' one. New ones are not generally as nice as the old ones, but they're easy to find.

Would something like this be suitable if i cannot locate a original?
Vintage STURMEY ARCHER Ribbed 3 Speed Shifter Cable w/ Anchor NOS | eBay

3speedslow 09-21-17 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19876916)
I just used the wire cutter portion of the needle nose pliers. You want to be careful with any crimp. Not even sure if it's necessary really. If the crimp makes the tube too fat, it will be a too tight fit in the shifter and get sticky in the barrel adjuster. That's where Sturmey Archer went wrong in the 60s when they started crimping tubes on the cables instead of casting the small ends on. You want the barrel adjuster to be able to spin freely. I've noticed the modern SA cables have gone back to the small cast on ends like the 50s cables had. Good idea.
Just got the cable made for my '73. Still have the brake cables to do.

Attachment 581638

Yes, I am going to take a file to the barrel crimp. It sticks in there and I can see where it rubs. Thanks for the info. Off to the hardware stores to get some tubing.

rhm 09-21-17 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19877330)
The Park Tools cable cutters (CN-10) have a ferrule crimping slot built into them that might be the tool most guys already have in their kit.

Cold forged, heat treated steel handles for strength
Precision ground cutting jaws for a clean cut on every cable
Built in crimper for cable end caps and forming hole for reforming housing ends and housing ferrules
Wire latch holds handles together when not in use

That's a very nice tool, but I am skeptical the crimper is up to the task at hand. That crimper is made for putting the little aluminum protective ends on cables. To make a gear cable, you need serious force.


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19877350)
Would something like this be suitable if i cannot locate a original?
Vintage STURMEY ARCHER Ribbed 3 Speed Shifter Cable w/ Anchor NOS | eBay

I am not sure. I can't get a good look at the trigger end. It's probably fine, but I can't be sure.

JohnDThompson 09-21-17 09:32 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 19877431)
That's a very nice tool, but I am skeptical the crimper is up to the task at hand. That crimper is made for putting the little aluminum protective ends on cables. To make a gear cable, you need serious force.

Agreed. Something like this is better suited:

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/crimper.jpg

Ballenxj 09-21-17 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by drasp (Post 19877042)
Finally joined the club! I've always been attracted to English 3-speeds, but never owned one. Finally went on a hunt & after scouring CL throughout the Southeast & searching eBay, forums, etc. I actually stumbled on this one at a local bike shop on consignment!

1951 Model 23 Sports Tourist w/ original recepit:

That receipt not only confirms the date of the bicycle, in my opinion adds greatly to the value. :thumb:

BigChief 09-21-17 11:32 AM

1 Attachment(s)
The last thing I had to do to finish my 73 Sports was mount the front brake and make up a cable. When I took the front brake off, I noticed the mounting bolt was bent. "wonder how that happened" Now I know how it happened. It happened at the factory. When they mounted the brake, they noticed how crooked the mounting hole in the fork was drilled. Instead of replacing the fork they bolted the brake on and bent it up. Well, enough for today. I'll have to think on this.

Attachment 581683

Scipunk 09-21-17 12:17 PM

OK so i know own 4 vintage 3 speeds and a 1950 tricycle cause my brother has a 60's Triumph with headlight (ladies) and offered it to me ...lol

It's in pretty good shape, i'll grab pics once i pick it up this weekend...lol

JohnDThompson 09-21-17 12:43 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19877831)
The last thing I had to do to finish my 73 Sports was mount the front brake and make up a cable. When I took the front brake off, I noticed the mounting bolt was bent. "wonder how that happened" Now I know how it happened. It happened at the factory. When they mounted the brake, they noticed how crooked the mounting hole in the fork was drilled. Instead of replacing the fork they bolted the brake on and bent it up. Well, enough for today. I'll have to think on this.

Hey, it worked for 40+ years, right?

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

:)

Scipunk 09-21-17 12:59 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19878053)
Hey, it worked for 40+ years, right?

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

:)

"Don't fix it if it ain't brake?

:lol:

arty dave 09-21-17 05:37 PM

So we have a Monday holiday and I should be able to get the last 2 coats of paint on my DL-1 over the next 3 days. Which leaves me pondering decal placement. Did the DL-1 have this 'high tensile steel tubing' decal somewhere?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/...2fc6d61e_c.jpgIMG20170913070336 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

These grips arrived last week Bicycle Handlebar Grips Brown Retro-Style Fixed Gear vintage Japanese Bike Grips | eBay
- they are VERY nice, made in Japan by OGK. $16 Australian with free delivery :thumb:. I asked the supplier if white grips are available and they have ordered some. They'll let me know when they've arrived & will add these to their ebay page. The other colour they have is a honey brown and apparently there is a darker 'coffee' brown in this grip style.

noglider 09-21-17 05:50 PM

@rhm, a few months ago, I bought one of those crimping tools because you mentioned them here. I had a chance to use it, though I've already forgotten where I used it. In any case, thank you. It's a serious tool. It has four or five pivots for lots of leverage, and it's heavily built, so yeah, it delivers a lot of force in a small area.

gster 09-21-17 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by drasp (Post 19877042)
Finally joined the club! I've always been attracted to English 3-speeds, but never owned one. Finally went on a hunt & after scouring CL throughout the Southeast & searching eBay, forums, etc. I actually stumbled on this one at a local bike shop on consignment!

1951 Model 23 Sports Tourist w/ original recepit:

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...rning_ride.jpg

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...st_receipt.jpg

She hasn't been in service for a while, tires are badly dry rotted (not badly enough to keep me from riding to work yesterday) & she had an embarrassing Huffy tractor saddle fitted. Was repainted long long ago, but they masked most of the decals. I added the B67 (I know, 66 would've been more correct, but LBS had the 67 on the shelf) & have a pair of World Tours, some Kool Stop continentals & a few other little things on the way to help freshen her up!!! Scored some grips & cable housings on eBay, but will have to evaluate when they show up. I have a line on a clean seatpost & clamp bolt, those will be good. Need to find a frame pump & a clamp style lower peg - this one was broken off before I was born. Also have my eye out for a Lucas King of the Road bell - I *NEED* a good English bell for this bike!!! :D

Nice purchase.
Using the inflation calculator, this $66.00 bicycle in 1951 would cost $620.00 today.
It was a serious purchase back then.

BigChief 09-21-17 07:19 PM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19878609)
So we have a Monday holiday and I should be able to get the last 2 coats of paint on my DL-1 over the next 3 days. Which leaves me pondering decal placement. Did the DL-1 have this 'high tensile steel tubing' decal somewhere?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4423/...2fc6d61e_c.jpgIMG20170913070336 by arty dave armour, on Flickr

These grips arrived last week Bicycle Handlebar Grips Brown Retro-Style Fixed Gear vintage Japanese Bike Grips | eBay
- they are VERY nice, made in Japan by OGK. $16 Australian with free delivery :thumb:. I asked the supplier if white grips are available and they have ordered some. They'll let me know when they've arrived & will add these to their ebay page. The other colour they have is a honey brown and apparently there is a darker 'coffee' brown in this grip style.

The transfers and high tensile sticker changed over the years. So it depends on if you want to reproduce the graphics that were original to your roadster, use a style of a different era or something custom. The high tensile sticker was usually applied just under the shifter cable guide wheel clamp on the seat tube.

Scipunk 09-21-17 07:33 PM

@arty dave
Where did you get the decals? Are they stickers or water transfer? I am gonna need some for my 64 sports :)

BigChief 09-21-17 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 19878053)
Hey, it worked for 40+ years, right?

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke."

:)

I don't know how well it worked. There was no cable connected to the brake when I got it. I can't see how it would have been very stable. The heavy washer on the back is contoured to fit the round fork crown. With the whole unit tipped back, the washer wouldn't seat on the crown correctly. It's the hole at the back that's high. I don't see any way around this except elongating it downward. Can't believe this error made it onto a finished bike.

thumpism 09-21-17 09:30 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19878806)
I don't know how well it worked. There was no cable connected to the brake when I got it. I can't see how it would have been very stable. The heavy washer on the back is contoured to fit the round fork crown. With the whole unit tipped back, the washer wouldn't seat on the crown correctly. It's the hole at the back that's high. I don't see any way around this except elongating it downward. Can't believe this error made it onto a finished bike.

If the hole had been skewed left-right it probably would have been caught by QC or an alert assembly worker, but the guy who installed the brake at the factory thought it would slide past and it evidently did.

arty dave 09-21-17 11:55 PM

Scipunk - Yeah vinyl stickers from ebay, I think about $18 Australian + free postage. They seem to be quite good quality from what I can tell. There's also a set available from the UK that is silver where this set is gold. I prefer the gold :)

Scipunk 09-22-17 01:08 AM


Originally Posted by arty dave (Post 19879179)
Scipunk - Yeah vinyl stickers from ebay, I think about $18 Australian + free postage. They seem to be quite good quality from what I can tell. There's also a set available from the UK that is silver where this set is gold. I prefer the gold :)

Nice I look forward to seeing them installed. Now to see if they have them for mine lol. I also prefer gold as well.

arty dave 09-22-17 03:24 AM

Thanks Big Chief - I didn't really like the font of the original decals so I got these ones which I think are late 50's early 60's? Not sure, but I think I've seen them on photos of DL-1's. I should really have kept a folder of images I've seen showing decals - now I'll have to go trawling again :)

BigChief 09-22-17 05:22 AM

1 Attachment(s)
I have two DL1s. This one here has the transfers used in the late 60s to about 1971. The transfers on the downtube and chainguard are exactly the same. The seatpost has 2 stick on metallic strips with the heron in the middle. This same heron was also on the rear fender. It has a "Made In England" on the top side, in the middle of the top tube. There was no trace of a high tensile sticker on this one. The originals used varnish transfers. They aren't waterslides. The modern vinyl transfers look good to me. Some makers are better than others.

Attachment 581762

rhm 09-22-17 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 19878626)
@rhm, a few months ago, I bought one of those crimping tools because you mentioned them here. I had a chance to use it, though I've already forgotten where I used it. In any case, thank you. It's a serious tool. It has four or five pivots for lots of leverage, and it's heavily built, so yeah, it delivers a lot of force in a small area.

I'm glad to hear it!

It really is an amazing little tool, very well made. They must be over 50 years old by now, and I haven't yet seen one that was damaged. If they were being made today at that quality level they'd cost well over $100 but we can still pick up used ones for under $20.

BigChief 09-22-17 08:37 AM

I've come to my decision on how to deal with the fork on my green Sports. To do a neat job, I'll need to take it apart again, get all greasy, clean it up and bring it over to my old shop and use the milling machine to elongate the hole on the back side downward. I'm figuring that the forward friction on the pads will want to force the mounting bolt downward at the rear, so I don't need to reinforce the elongated hole at the top. The bolt and contoured washer should hold it in place anyway. Yup, these old British bikes can have their quirks.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:51 AM.


Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.