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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

smontanaro 05-15-18 05:58 PM

Didn't know Panaracer made tubulars. Might be the finishing touch on your vintage keirin restoration:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222893304912

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...be3b61d479.jpg

ThermionicScott 05-15-18 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20342299)
Didn't know Panaracer made tubulars. Might be the finishing touch on your vintage keirin restoration:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222893304912

They still do, BTW: https://panaracer.com/lineup/road.html :thumb:

speedevil 05-19-18 06:10 AM

Need some advice from those with more tubular experience than I. Some background: I built a set of wheels with Chorus hubs, DT competition spokes, and Mavic GP4 rims. This was a couple of years ago, and I only rode these wheels once or twice. They were a second set of wheels for my Lemond Alpe d'Huez. I'm planning to use these wheels on my Masi build, so I checked them out and the glue has dried out and I could push it off the rim (uninflated) very easily. No stickiness at all. Definitely need to fix that.

I'm considering a significant upgrade to either Vittoria Corsa G+ or Veloflex Carbon tubulars. The prices I've seen for these are comparable, any thoughts one way or the other? I will probably use 25mm, the frame has plenty of clearance for this width, assuming that the installed width on the GP4 rim is close to the stated width. Now that I think about it, tubular widths should be more consistent than clinchers, since the rim width really isn't a factor. Is that true or false?

Also considering the Effetto Mariposa Caronga tape. Obviously my glue job wasn't spectacular, and the reviews on the tape are all positive. it's not cheap, neither the tape nor the rim cleaner, but if the adhesion is good and reliable then it might be worth the expense. Any thoughts or experience with the Caronga tape?

Thanks in advance.

jcb3 05-19-18 06:52 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348291)
Need some advice from those with more tubular experience than I. Some background: I built a set of wheels with Chorus hubs, DT competition spokes, and Mavic GP4 rims. This was a couple of years ago, and I only rode these wheels once or twice. They were a second set of wheels for my Lemond Alpe d'Huez. I'm planning to use these wheels on my Masi build, so I checked them out and the glue has dried out and I could push it off the rim (uninflated) very easily. No stickiness at all. Definitely need to fix that.

I'm considering a significant upgrade to either Vittoria Corsa G+ or Veloflex Carbon tubulars. The prices I've seen for these are comparable, any thoughts one way or the other? I will probably use 25mm, the frame has plenty of clearance for this width, assuming that the installed width on the GP4 rim is close to the stated width. Now that I think about it, tubular widths should be more consistent than clinchers, since the rim width really isn't a factor. Is that true or false?

Also considering the Effetto Mariposa Caronga tape. Obviously my glue job wasn't spectacular, and the reviews on the tape are all positive. it's not cheap, neither the tape nor the rim cleaner, but if the adhesion is good and reliable then it might be worth the expense. Any thoughts or experience with the Caronga tape?

Thanks in advance.

A couple of thoughts:

Will you be riding or looking at the tubulars?

If looking, I have no opinion.

If riding, I'd consider getting a couple cheap tufo tires and learn to glue them on. Different glues and personal assessments of how much glue is enough will vary.

When I got back into tubulars, I used the Continental glue, closely followed the directions, and the glue job didn't hold very well (tire moved under braking and a got a hump around the stem - good thing I was close to home). Vittoria cement is excellent but for me I need less than recommended (I couldn't reposition the tire once on the rim). I like Tubasti, but then again I like French weirdness.

If you dont want to mess with glue, the Tufo tape is generally well thought of. However, I read and hear of nightmares getting the tires off.

The reason I recommend cheap tufos (e.g., S33 pros that can be had for $30) is that they are very durable and don't ride all that bad, despite what the elitist tubular fans contend. And if you totally get glue all over the place, it is only a $30 tire. On the other hand, you get a $100 tire and flat it the second time out, you will be likely back on the clinchers.

Just my 2cents

Good luck

jimmuller 05-19-18 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348291)
Need some advice from those with more tubular experience than I...

I can't claim to be experienced but I've been riding tubulars for a few years now. I ran through a pair of Vittoria Corsa EVO SC clinchers then a comparable set of sewups (I forget the model name). Then I decided to try Veloflex, the Master clincher and equivalent Criterium sewup. I've been using them ever since. I started using Vittoria Mastic on the advice of a friend and have never had reason to change. It grips well, stays grippy, maybe ever getting stronger with time.

speedevil 05-19-18 08:22 AM

The tubs I previously glued were the yellow jersey specials at $50 for 3. I'm tempted to reglue them and use them for a while. Then perhaps upgrade to higher end tubs. Still not sure on the tape vs glue. I have also read about the tufo tape being difficult to remove, hence my interest in the Caronga tape. Trying to decide if $15 per wheel for the Caronga tape is worth it to glue on $17 tubs.

But you're correct @jcb3 it would be frustrating to tape on a high end tub and then get a flat right away. Not sure it would put me off tubs, but don't know if I would stay with the more expensive tubs or save a little $$ on the replacement. I've been lucky and only had a single flat in the past 3k miles, a pinch flat that was no one's fault but my own. I've been using Michelin Pro3/4 clinchers.

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

Steve Whitlatch 05-19-18 08:31 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348454)
The tubs I previously glued were the yellow jersey specials at $50 for 3. I'm tempted to reglue them and use them for a while. Then perhaps upgrade to higher end tubs. Still not sure on the tape vs glue. I have also read about the tufo tape being difficult to remove, hence my interest in the Caronga tape. Trying to decide if $15 per wheel for the Caronga tape is worth it to glue on $17 tubs.

But you're correct @jcb3 it would be frustrating to tape on a high end tub and then get a flat right away. Not sure it would put me off tubs, but don't know if I would stay with the more expensive tubs or save a little $$ on the replacement. I've been lucky and only had a single flat in the past 3k miles, a pinch flat that was no one's fault but my own. I've been using Michelin Pro3/4 clinchers.

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

You may as well get your first gluing under your belt. You can`t ride tubs without being able to talk about gluing from experience. It`s part of the whole coolness of tubs. :)

speedevil 05-19-18 08:53 AM


Originally Posted by Steve Whitlatch (Post 20348468)
You may as well get your first gluing under your belt. You can`t ride tubs without being able to talk about gluing from experience. It`s part of the whole coolness of tubs. :)

Already lost that cherry. But it's been 2 years since I glued them, so maybe not a surprise that the glue has dried out. I used Panaracer glue that time. I think, since I've already got the Panaracer glue, that I'll just reglue them using that.

Unless, of course, Panaracer glue wasn't a good choice.

Steve Whitlatch 05-19-18 09:07 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348509)
Already lost that cherry. But it's been 2 years since I glued them, so maybe not a surprise that the glue has dried out. I used Panaracer glue that time. I think, since I've already got the Panaracer glue, that I'll just reglue them using that.

Unless, of course, Panaracer glue wasn't a good choice.

First it was my hearing, then my eyes, now my reading comprehension is fading. I am getting old. LOL :)

Peugeotlover 05-19-18 10:06 AM

Half a tube of the 1.1 fl.oz. Panaracer rim cement (one tube is just enough to mount two tubulars), in small beads between the spoke holes, let set for 10 minutes,
then, starting with the air valve inserted, mount the pre-stretched Servizio Corsa tubular tire.
Inflate partially, center on the rim to perfection, then fully inflate.
Let dry overnight.
This has worked well for me for 6 years, never had a tire come loose. Easy enough to remove when necessary.

Wildwood 05-19-18 10:52 AM

I've never taped, but either tape or glue should work sufficiently well.

As to the tires - my logic says:
1. I want a better ride feel and smoother cornering
2. I want the 'tubular advantage' on my nicer bikes
3. I acquired good wheels for this build
4. I will finish this job with quality tires

Why compromise or sacrifice 1/2/3 for the sake of saving $40-$50?
UK sales sites still have the best deals.

CV-6 05-19-18 11:20 AM


Originally Posted by speedevil (Post 20348454)

So let's say I decide to stay with the yellow jersey tubs, do I glue them or tape them? What's the smart decision on this?

I would glue them. I taped a set and the basetape on the tires started separating.

jimmuller 05-19-18 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 20348737)
I've never taped, but either tape or glue should work sufficiently well.

As to the tires - my logic says:
1. I want a better ride feel and smoother cornering
2. I want the 'tubular advantage' on my nicer bikes
3. I acquired good wheels for this build
4. I will finish this job with quality tires

'Zactly. If you are going through the "trouble" of tubulars go with the best tires you can manage.

Wildwood 05-19-18 02:02 PM

For a bargain (spare?) tire, Vittoria's Rally is my favorite. I bought 4 last year on sale (PBK.com) to be used as spares. Current prices seem to be around $25-ish. I like the cotton casing which (IMHO) delivers a soft ride. Or maybe it's nostalgia, as they were my first 2 sets of tubies - and taught me a lot about how to mount tires minimizing the possibility of 'lumpy' spots. Please don't misunderstand, Rally's don't hold a candle to the more supple high TPI offerings.

smontanaro 05-19-18 02:05 PM

i bought some new and lightly used Veloflex tubulars off The Paceline awhile ago. The used ones had been taped and I had trouble getting the leftover tape bits off. I dropped the Tufo folks a note. The woman who responded said to just work at it with pliers, etc. She also said something like, "Don't people read the warnings that our tape is only for use with Tufo tires?" I wonder if Tufo perhaps has some super duper glue which reduces the chance of the base tape separating from the casing...

CV-6 05-19-18 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20349014)
i bought some new and lightly used Veloflex tubulars off The Paceline awhile ago. The used ones had been taped and I had trouble getting the leftover tape bits off. I dropped the Tufo folks a note. The woman who responded said to just work at it with pliers, etc. She also said something like, "Don't people read the warnings that our tape is only for use with Tufo tires?" I wonder if Tufo perhaps has some super duper glue which reduces the chance of the base tape separating from the casing...

I have news for the lady. Their tape is a PITA to get off of Tufo tires also.

Wileyone 05-22-18 05:12 AM

Not sure if anyone is interested in blackwalls but PBK has the Michelin Pro 4's on for $50 each. i bought a set last year and they are every bit as nice as the Vittoria Corsas at almost 1/2 the price.

https://www.probikekit.ca/bicycle-ty...ntrySelected=Y

noglider 05-22-18 07:28 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 20342299)
Didn't know Panaracer made tubulars. Might be the finishing touch on your vintage keirin restoration:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/222893304912

That listing says the tires are new, but it's clear that they're not.

CV-6 05-22-18 08:28 AM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 20353587)
That listing says the tires are new, but it's clear that they're not.

I think they are NOS. Just not well stored.

cdmurphy 05-22-18 09:51 AM


Originally Posted by CV-6 (Post 20353715)
I think they are NOS. Just not well stored.

I agree. They're just 30+ years old. I wouldn't dream of putting them on a bike to ride, but they would be just the thing for a Japanese wall hanger.

crank_addict 05-22-18 10:27 AM

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2be6dfe872.jpg
New Panaracer Practice on the Viscount w/ Super Champion Mixte rims. Me likey.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9b803a2616.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a90c3a72be.jpg

RobbieTunes 05-27-18 11:29 AM

Tuck tape, Panaracer tubs....
 
I've had little issue with Tufo tape, and re-used it, probably not a recommendation.

Panaracer also makes/made a Practice 320, and I like my set, which is also taped on.

Not sure if I will continue buying the tubular clincher Tufo tires, unless they can get to 25's, which may solve their issue with a harsh ride unless you get the psi just right. They wear like iron, so far, but a change would be nice. Their normal tubulars are excellent gravel tires, and the higher end road tires are great, but the price point is right there with other really nice tires.

Lazyass 06-17-18 05:30 PM

So I got a slow leak on my rear Vredestein Frecca, then it because a pretty fast leak. I didn't see any puncture so I put the tire in water and the leak is coming from the bottom of the tire from who knows what. I have my little 5ml bottle of Stan's sealant I carry on rides, I squirted half of it in and it's totally sealed up now. When I wear these tires out I'm going to get the Specialized Espoir's.

Wildwood 08-14-18 05:47 PM

So,….. I had never ridden a really high end clincher tire on a light wheelset -- and I have been reading so many comments that the differences with tubulars are minimal -- that I needed to check it out.

Vittoria Graphene+ 25s, latex tubes pumped to 110f/115r, on Mavic Open 4 CD rims delivers a wonderful ride. Smooth, supple, excellent traction. However, the tire profile is not as round as tubulars so a series of quick turns isn't as smooth. Guess I need to test these tires on a wider rim as a final test.

Bottom line = tubulars are still a superior handling tire over high-end clinchers.

smontanaro 08-15-18 05:01 AM

That's some serious pressure. I generally ride with 60f/80r, maybe 90 if I'm loaded down a bit. Tubulars or clinchers.


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