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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

DiabloScott 07-19-22 11:11 AM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22579862)
Any hints, tips, tricks? Or is it just all brute force?

It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).
2. Tape OR glue, leave a bare spot opposite the valve where it'll be easier to get started.
3. Thin tire iron helps a lot; both getting started and all the way around - steel works better than a Pedro's type.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2283dc6d0a.jpg

genejockey 07-19-22 12:33 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22579888)
It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).

I confess I'd always been a little anxious riding them - fear of rolling them off the rim. After a couple minutes trying unsuccessfully to peel one of them off, I feel MUCH better about them!

But I still really want to try the Corsa Speeds!!!

smontanaro 07-19-22 01:16 PM

genejockey Brute force works. I've yet to need to resort to tire irons too remove a tubular tire. As you've seen, adhesion to the edges goes a long way to minimizing the chance they roll off the rim.

Like DiabloScott I'm a glue sniffer user. My only experience with tape has been trying to remove it. :troll: I use paste/flux/welding brushes to apply the glue. With just a little experimentation you will quickly figure out the (light) pressure necessary to get the brush to fan out to the edges of the base tape or rim. Once installed, I pump the tire up to around 110psi to insure complete contact (edges and center).

DiabloScott 07-19-22 05:02 PM


Originally Posted by genejockey (Post 22579986)
I confess I'd always been a little anxious riding them - fear of rolling them off the rim. After a couple minutes trying unsuccessfully to peel one of them off, I feel MUCH better about them!

New tubular guys usually hear a story about a rolled tire, and then read some article on how to glue tires, and then they use the "6-corner criterium in August" criteria, and then when it comes time to change one they have to cut it open and rip it off with a vice grip.
The tire ought to be damn hard, but not impossible, to get off. That's the sweet spot you need to find with experience.

I authorize buying the Corsa Speeds.

genejockey 07-19-22 07:52 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22580297)
New tubular guys usually hear a story about a rolled tire, and then read some article on how to glue tires, and then they use the "6-corner criterium in August" criteria, and then when it comes time to change one they have to cut it open and rip it off with a vice grip.
The tire ought to be damn hard, but not impossible, to get off. That's the sweet spot you need to find with experience.

I authorize buying the Corsa Speeds.

That's good, because I bought them a month ago.

HM70 07-20-22 05:32 PM

Yup! Only time I ever had a tubular rolled was at the registration table before a criterium. Wished he could be with me the next time I had a flat.

SJX426 07-21-22 04:52 AM

I typically leave a bare spot opposite the valve. The result is a "ticking" sound as the glue next to the spot separates then bonds. this can happen for a few miles before it settles down. The last time I applied glue on the tire in that spot and not the rim. A bit better.
My thumbs object to much use anymore so a tire is the assist in removal. Thanks @DiabloScott for the reference for a thin one. Amazon.com : Tragoods Premium Bicycle Tire Lever Tyre Spoon Iron Changing Tool, Bike Tire Levers Premium Stainless Steel Levers to Repair Bike Tube, Best Tire Changing Tool, Set of 3 : Sports & Outdoors

Came back after reading the reviews. Not sure this item is what you would like. I have three different sets of which none are the best for tubulars. They include metal and plastic. The key is to get under the tire far enough to leverage it off the rim which is a challenge of overcoming the glued area.

Classtime 07-21-22 07:58 AM

I’ve seen guys use a single edge razor blade to remove a taped tubular tire🤔 if you can get those Giros off without destroying them, they will be good as a spare for the more delicate Corsas.

DiabloScott 07-21-22 06:09 PM


Originally Posted by SJX426 (Post 22582016)

Came back after reading the reviews. Not sure this item is what you would like. I have three different sets of which none are the best for tubulars. They include metal and plastic. The key is to get under the tire far enough to leverage it off the rim which is a challenge of overcoming the glued area.

Right, unlike a clincher where you just need to get under the bead, with a tubular you need to get the whole spoon underneath the tire and out the other side. Then you pry it up and wiggle around. I didn't see bad reviews there except for being very smooth around the edges.

Robvolz 08-05-22 07:18 PM

Last night while riding through the park, a gunshot rang out.

no, it did not. It was a 10-year-old tubular that blew out a side wall in the most spectacular way.

I watched two YouTube videos, both of them sounded like changing your tire was a three or four day process. I scoffed.

I started with a glue I had on hand. Tubasti, which is much more like rubber cement. Not having a paintbrush, I decided to spread it with my rubber gloved hand. Dumb idea. It basically adhered to my rubber glove.

since I have bottles of goof off, I took the glove off and just use my bare finger. It worked great. I felt like finger painting in preschool. And when I was done, a simple rubbing my hands together all of the glue balled up into a natural rubber eraser.

That soon ran out so I ran to the store to get some Vittoria Mastic’ One.

certainly not the same properties. It was goopy. And now, four hours later I still have residue on my fingers and can’t seem to get it off even though I’ve already used magic eraser and green scrubby pads.

I put a coat on the rim, I put a coat on the tire. After a couple hours of them being outside in 85° heat, I put another coat on the tire and put it in its place. Yes, I did get stuff on the side wall. I am frightened to use any chemicals to remove it lest I weaken the molecular make up of the tire so I will live with my mistakes.

The front tire is bound to blow as well at some point. So I am pre-gluing my other new tire, wrapping it in Italian newspaper, and using a Campagnolo toe clip strap to carry it under my seat.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5f39dd751.jpeg
All in all, I prefer the top one.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b8e741635.jpeg
They (yes, they) say this is the most puncture resistant sew-up out there

pastorbobnlnh 08-06-22 07:30 AM

Robvolz , I've been running Rallys on one of my bikes and been pleased with the performance. Are they as nice as $100 Vittorias? Of course not--- but a significant improvement over mid-range clinchers. :D

Wildwood 08-07-22 07:56 PM

With all the bikes I'm running I'm not afraid to confess a soft spot for Rally tires. The cotton casing gives a nice damped ride, imo. A new set going on a touring Rickert.

My only current comment is that I finished the last jar of mastic and converted to tubular tape lover. Having finished 4 tires with Jantex tape, what tape should I buy for the next builds??

Classtime 08-07-22 09:54 PM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 22602401)
My only current comment is that I finished the last jar of mastic and converted to tubular tape lover. Having finished 4 tires with Jantex tape, what tape should I buy for the next builds??

Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

79pmooney 08-07-22 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22579888)
It's a lot of practice.

1. Use glue instead of tape, and don't use too much (this is an experience thing).
2. Tape OR glue, leave a bare spot opposite the valve where it'll be easier to get started.
3. Thin tire iron helps a lot; both getting started and all the way around - steel works better than a Pedro's type.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2283dc6d0a.jpg

I just ordered the Sunlite equivalent from Bike Berry. (I try to avoid Amazon and will happily spend a buck or two more to have my money go elsewhere.) I actually have one sweet steel spoon lever from a distant millennium somewhere. Thanks for this tip and the no-glue at the rim seam trick. (I heard that also back in that distant past but never did it.)

Now I need to get spokes, build wheels and get sweet tubbies on the Pro Miyata I just set up. (What a ride! My Mooney's main triangle exactly! The rest slightly more spread out than the Fuji Pro I raced and loved but now I've got the stem and reach I should have had back then. Circa 1990, so I'm told. The heyday of steel racing bikes and it shows every ride. And suckers me into riding harder! Yes, true race bikes are faster. But it's not anything you can measure!)

So I need to find those hen's teeth, 302mm butted whatever/1.5/whatever DT? Sapim? in silver. Spent many hours getting nowhere a few weeks ago. A local shop can cut me black Sapims. Did a wheel for me but black does zero for my tastes. (For silver hubs and greybrown GP4s and silver 330s.)

79pmooney 08-07-22 11:40 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22602517)
Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

Couldn't you do Diablo Scott's trick of deleting one section between spoke holes at the rim seam? (Make mess of the scissors but could come in very handy in the field.) Or do you risk integrity cutting the tape so it no longer is completely stuck to itself? Disclaimer - I haven't used tape since Jantex in the mid '70s. Rolled a tire on a hot day. Next ride was on glue and I never looked back. But I hear the new stuff is much better.

Wildwood 08-08-22 12:25 AM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 22602517)
Have you changed a taped tire on the road?

No.
But I was an over-gluer, and managed 2 during rides in last few years.

What do I not know, and hope never to suffer?

obuckler 08-08-22 04:55 AM


Originally Posted by Wildwood (Post 22602569)
……snip……

What do I not know, and hope never to suffer?

What I know is as a tubular noob who started out with tape, the first time I had to change a tire I realized I could never do this on the road and that it took forever in the garage. So flats on the road would mean one of three choices to get home: 1) trying usually temporary or ineffective sealant which also precludes ever patching that tube later, 2) a walk, or 3) an extraction by special forces (Uber or preferably my wonderful wife).

pastorbobnlnh 08-08-22 06:10 AM

@Wildwood I'm now a devotee of Effetto Mariposa Carogna tape. I like it that it comes in shop size rolls.

I've tried gluing, Tufo and Vittoria tapes. I recently had a broken spoke mishap with a wheel running a Rally with the Effetto tape. Obviously, I had to remove the Rally and tape to complete the repair. The tire was challenging, but removable. If I had been on a ride, I could have used the left behind tape to mount the spare for the ride home. The tape took work to remove, but came off cleanly and rim was ready for new tape and a tire with no other prep.

In my recent move I came across a set of wheels I had forgotten about. IIRC they were my last pair of glued tubulars. What a mess! And after climate-controlled storage for 4-5 years, the glue and tires seem to be seperating. My taped wheels look ready to ride.

Of course, YMMV. :D

DiabloScott 08-08-22 08:50 AM


Originally Posted by obuckler (Post 22602633)
What I know is as a tubular noob who started out with tape, the first time I had to change a tire I realized I could never do this on the road and that it took forever in the garage. So flats on the road would mean one of three choices to get home: 1) trying usually temporary or ineffective sealant which also precludes ever patching that tube later, 2) a walk, or 3) an extraction by special forces (Uber or preferably my wonderful wife).

I've never used tape, but this is a common complaint - it just has too much grip - very difficult to change a tire in the best of situations, damn near impossible to do it on the road.
If you're using tape because it's easier and cleaner, you give up easy changes on the road... your choice.
But if you're using tape because you don't think glue is strong enough, you've heard too many rolled tire stories from folks who got in a hurry or didn't know what they were doing at all.

CV-6 08-08-22 09:58 AM


Originally Posted by DiabloScott (Post 22602875)
I've never used tape, but this is a common complaint - it just has too much grip - very difficult to change a tire in the best of situations, damn near impossible to do it on the road.
If you're using tape because it's easier and cleaner, you give up easy changes on the road... your choice.
But if you're using tape because you don't think glue is strong enough, you've heard too many rolled tire stories from folks who got in a hurry or didn't know what they were doing at all.

I use tape and twice have changed tires on the road. The first time, I did not leave a blank spot of tape opposite the valve and did struggle to get the tire off. Funny part there. A kind soul stopped to help, saw the tubular, and promptly told me he could not help. Second time I had left a blank. It was less difficult to remove. You only need a starting point to get the tire removed. My technique is to slide a tire iron under the tire at the blank and then slide it along the rim to the point I can roll the tire to peel it off.

Once I learned, I find tape tire changes are as easy as glued.

gaucho777 08-09-22 08:12 PM


Originally Posted by pastorbobnlnh (Post 22602682)
@Wildwood I recently had a broken spoke mishap with a wheel running a Rally with the Effetto tape. Obviously, I had to remove the Rally and tape to complete the repair...

Bob, I don't see why you had to touch the tire due to the broken spoke. Why not simply remove the broken spoke, replace, and re-use the same nipple?

The only time I had to do as you describe was once I was out of town and broke a French-threaded Robergel Trois Etoiles spoke on a tubular wheel. Finding a French-threaded replacement spoke to fit the nipple was impossible. I called around every shop in the area and was repeatedly told me there was no such thing as French-threaded spokes, but I knew otherwise. Still, I did have to pull up a small bit of the tire to install a new spoke & nipple until I got home and was able to put in a matching French replacement spoke. A good reason not to tour on wheels with French-threaded spokes I suppose.

smontanaro 08-10-22 04:33 AM

Ride report
 
I hadn't ridden my Redcay for quite some time. It was patiently hanging on a hook waiting. I took it out yesterday as a small tribute to Paul Brodek. He was my "Redcay guy," having provided the serial number decoder way back when. He was also from New Jersey where Jim Redcay spent his building years.

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

At my coffee stop:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4638863830.jpg

pastorbobnlnh 08-10-22 07:04 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 22604898)
Bob, I don't see why you had to touch the tire due to the broken spoke. Why not simply remove the broken spoke, replace, and re-use the same nipple?

The only time I had to do as you describe was once I was out of town and broke a French-threaded Robergel Trois Etoiles spoke on a tubular wheel. Finding a French-threaded replacement spoke to fit the nipple was impossible. I called around every shop in the area and was repeatedly told me there was no such thing as French-threaded spokes, but I knew otherwise. Still, I did have to pull up a small bit of the tire to install a new spoke & nipple until I got home and was able to put in a matching French replacement spoke. A good reason not to tour on wheels with French-threaded spokes I suppose.

I have a similar "French" challenge. The wheel in question is a rear Roval and I actually broke two spokes on the drive side when the RD decided to come loose from the hanger and was sucked (with the chain) into the spokes at about 15mph. Since the broken spokes were about 100 degrees separated, I decided to remove the tire and tape completely.

The original spokes seem to be unobtanium. They are straight pull, bladed, and have a unique head and 1.8mm threaded unique nipple. As best I know, the Roval nipples must be used with the Roval rims.

I've not been able to find any compatible replacements. I've attempted to modify a similar modern spoke and had success with re-shaping the head. However, it is threaded 2.0 mm. I tapped the nipple to 2.0mm but the nipple refuses to thread onto the spoke. I tried to cut new threads on the spoke, but with no luck. Frustrated, I set the project to the side in May, and have been busy moving south ever since.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...11557ee26b.jpg
Modified spoke head on left next to original Roval spoke on right.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...aa2c0b3ec0.jpg
The unique Roval nipple.

obuckler 08-10-22 08:03 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22605091)

……snip…………

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

As a fan of the Vlaanderens which are NLA unfortunately I appreciate your input on the new Pro Tours. I have been looking for reviews but have not found too many. I am about to mount my last new one.

I have one with a flat to be repaired but it’s one of those not obvious leaks. No easily found source even under a magnifying class. Opened it up where the leak came out the sidewall. Nothing. Last resort which I have done before is to cut the tube and pull the whole tube, find the leak, patch it and reinstall the tube using a splice. BUT, when I opened this tube up (first time I have ever see this) they used so much glue under the seam strip it seeped inside the tire interior and made the tube stick to the casing. Could not pull the tube out. I guess I will open the tube in sections every 10 inches or so till I find the flat. What a pain.

obuckler 08-10-22 08:04 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22605091)

……snip…………

The bike has the NLA Veloflex Vlaanderen tires. Dang, they are like riding on pillows. I have the replacement ProTours on my Griffon. I don't think they are as nice.

As a fan of the Vlaanderens which are NLA unfortunately I appreciate your input on the new Pro Tours. I have been looking for reviews but have not found too many. I am about to mount my last new one.

I have one with a flat to be repaired but it’s one of those not obvious leaks. No easily found source even under a magnifying class. Opened it up where the leak came out the sidewall. Nothing. Last resort which I have done before is to cut the tube and pull the whole tube, find the leak, patch it and reinstall the tube using a splice. BUT, when I opened this tube up (first time I have ever see this) they used so much glue under the seam strip it seeped inside the tire interior and made the tube stick to the casing. Could not pull the tube out. I guess I will open the tube in sections every 10 inches or so till I find the flat. What a pain.


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