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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

USAZorro 11-22-05 02:27 PM

The Zeus tire holders are pretty nice too - I can only fit one tubular in though, and it doesn't hold anything else. Kind of a minimalist approach. http://cgi.ebay.com/ZEUS-spare-tire-...QQcmdZViewItem

wildjim 11-23-05 03:33 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro
The Zeus tire holders are pretty nice too - I can only fit one tubular in though, and it doesn't hold anything else. Kind of a minimalist approach. http://cgi.ebay.com/ZEUS-spare-tire-...QQcmdZViewItem

I have used a Vittoria tire holder; which seems identical to the Zeus. It seemed to work it's self loose and fall off as the metal hooks are soft easy to bend metal. Another problem with the open air holder is that the spare tire is covered in road grime when you need it.

I also use a Cannondale tubular tire bag much like the Jandd described above. I believe that the tire bag is a better way to carry the spare but not as elegant as the tire strap.

lotek 11-23-05 03:46 PM

just use an old toe strap and let the tire hang
down under the saddle or seatbag. Show em
what you got, and put your faith in the
gods of cycling that you'll never need that
spare.

marty

luker 11-23-05 05:07 PM

sliding the topic over a little.

I rode a bike today that I hadn't ridden in a while, equipped with tubulars. About five miles out of town the rear tire developed a marked thump and on inspection there was a little bump just after the stem insertion point. I said oh well (carrying my spare in my back pocket) and finished out the 20 mile loop. When I got home I pulled the wheel off in preparation for putting on a new tire, let the air out of the tire, and found that I'd never glued the dam*ed thing on!

The tire gradually crept around the rim and bunched up behind the valve stem, making a hump. I shudder to think of all of the ways that disaster may have befallen me. So, in the interest of public safety, here's a little reminder from your safety committee chairman.

Check your glue job periodically.

Thank you, and good evening.

Bob S. 11-23-05 08:02 PM

Yes indeed. Earlier this summer I was going out for a ride with my son. I had just mounted a new tire on back. By the time I got to the top of my very steep drive way & started down the road, I felt that same thump & bump you described. I felt pretty foolish considering I had just schooled my kid on how to mount a sew-up. Good to be kept humble. Bob

avenan 11-25-05 12:18 PM


Originally Posted by lotek
A word on Tufo gluing tape.
...
I had the oppertunity to change one of the tires recently (sprinter
with enough wear that it was unsafe). Removing the tire was no more
difficult than a tubular glued with mastik or any other glue.
There was significant sticky residue left on the rims that cleaned
up (with a little difficulty) with goo gone (or goof off).


This begs the question -- how safe/practical is it to use Tufo tape on non-Tufo tires? Its a given that it'll be marketed as being unsuitable for anything but Tufo tires, but they don't have a traditional base tape. Can a "normal" tubular be removed without pulling up the base tape?

lotek 11-25-05 03:18 PM

I think its mostly lawyerly weasle words concerning tufo tape and
normal tubulars.
I have not problem with the base tape (and this tire was on 2 years approx.)
pulling off the sprinter tire. I had heard that rumor but that wasn't the
case, again it was the normal tape, not the extreme.
Now what does that say about how well the tire was glued to the
rim? well I had sore fingers and 1 blister from trying to remove 2 tires.
The only tire that I have that has lost base tapes were some old Clement
Paris Roubaix and they are going to be shipped off for new tubes and base.

would I use the Tufo tape again? I don't think so. Not because I felt it
was unsafe, or pulled base tape but because of the godawful sticky mess
it left behind. At least Glue dries and can be chipped off.

marty

Road Fan 11-26-05 07:39 PM

Lotek, what do you mean about sending the Clements away for tube and base tape replacement? Who does this sort of work? I have some nice old ones that could use some similar refurbishing!

Ken

lotek 11-26-05 07:56 PM

Tire Alert in florida does this kind of repairs.

wildjim 11-26-05 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by lotek
Tire Alert in florida does this kind of repairs.

http://www.tirealert.com/

Motophoto 11-26-05 09:32 PM

Is it just me that does this but I like to spread the glue on the rim and tire with my finger :D . Guess I am a big kid I like getting my fingers in the stuff and I feel I really know the glue is evenly spread over the entire surface of the tire/rim.

I am interested in the method others use to get the old glue off of their rims when changing tires?

Bob S. 11-27-05 09:03 AM

My method has always been rather basic (kind of like mouthing method mentioned above: the finger smearing the glue around): A little bit or acetone, adheasive remover or similar solvent (what ever I happen to have laying around) on a rag. Basic, but works.

mollusk 11-30-05 03:36 PM


Originally Posted by lotek
just use an old toe strap and let the tire hang
down under the saddle or seatbag. Show em
what you got, and put your faith in the
gods of cycling that you'll never need that
spare.

marty

I don't like my tires getting that much UV unless they are mounted. Check out my avatar for what I use. My old Cannondale tire sock must be getting close to 23 years old and still works quite well. A "real" sock also works OK and would be easier to find. That would be even more correctly "old school".

peripatetic 11-30-05 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by mollusk
I don't like my tires getting that much UV unless they are mounted. Check out my avatar for what I use. My old Cannondale tire sock must be getting close to 23 years old and still works quite well. A "real" sock also works OK and would be easier to find. That would be even more correctly "old school".


You mean an actual sock for one's foot? Or is there actually such a thing as an old school tire sock? And if so, where does one buy one?

USAZorro 11-30-05 08:37 PM

Yes, there is such a thing. Read back in the thread for a link.

peripatetic 11-30-05 08:46 PM

Oh, uh, I guess that you mean the Jandd? I have been lurking through the whole thread, I was just wondering if the new word that had appeared, "sock", referred to something even more traditional. Would that piece of canvas that Rivendell carries work, or is that too small? I'm starting to contemplate something more homemade, maybe just canvas folded over the tires in a small plastic bag?

USAZorro 11-30-05 08:54 PM


Originally Posted by peripatetic
Oh, uh, I guess that you mean the Jandd? I have been lurking through the whole thread, I was just wondering if the new word that had appeared, "sock", referred to something even more traditional. Would that piece of canvas that Rivendell carries work, or is that too small? I'm starting to contemplate something more homemade, maybe just canvas folded over the tires in a small plastic bag?

As long as its the right size, it ought to work. This is a decidedly low-tech piece of equipment that anyone with a sewing device, a bit of sense and sufficient ambition could rig up.

peripatetic 11-30-05 09:51 PM


Originally Posted by USAZorro
As long as its the right size, it ought to work. This is a decidedly low-tech piece of equipment that anyone with a sewing device, a bit of sense and sufficient ambition could rig up.

Yeah, that's what I thought. Okay, thanks for being patient and sharing with a neophyte to the world of tubulars. Good learning.

luker 11-30-05 11:03 PM


Originally Posted by peripatetic
You mean an actual sock for one's foot? Or is there actually such a thing as an old school tire sock? And if so, where does one buy one?

I used to use an actual wool sock to hold the tubie, a dollar, and a few wrenches. Held it on with a toeclip strap...I recommend vigorelli winter socks for that totally vintage look...

lotek 12-01-05 08:37 AM

funny thing, I was in LBS last week and they had Jandd seat bags on
sale. So I bought the tubular bag for cheap. It is like the bags of old,
holds little more than than a tubular and maybe a velox repair kit and
multi tool.
I like it. I'd take pics but as we know they aren't working right now.

guess I'll put that old toestrap back in the parts bin.

marty

USAZorro 12-01-05 10:03 AM


Originally Posted by lotek
funny thing, I was in LBS last week and they had Jandd seat bags on
sale. So I bought the tubular bag for cheap. It is like the bags of old,
holds little more than than a tubular and maybe a velox repair kit and
multi tool.
I like it. I'd take pics but as we know they aren't working right now.

guess I'll put that old toestrap back in the parts bin.

marty

Can't you link to a picture?

lotek 12-01-05 10:33 AM

Ok worked that out (use img not attachment),
this is a Tufo version of the bag, mine does not have
the garish logo
http://www.biketiresdirect.com/NewIm...67/JABAG-1.jpg

s70rguy 12-01-05 10:53 AM

I really have to step into this spare tubular discussion here. I have been reading about UV rays degrading your spare tubular, about 'socks' (?), 'toe straps' (??), 'sew-it-yourself' (????), 'a few wrenches', and so on, and so on.
Now old school, and I mean really old school, would mean: no spare tubular at all. Just rely on good fortune! Why? Because a bulky something under your saddle cramps your style. And style is what counts.
OK, a little more sensible, you want to carry a spare. Just take any old, multiple repaired tubular, rubber band around it, and put it with leather toeclip strap under your saddle. Pull the strap as tightly as possible, because you want the guy behind you to have a good look at your muscular thighs.
OK, so now you flat (months and months after you put that spare under your saddle, because you've had that good fortune all the same). You undo the leather strap (with difficulty, cause it's really cold), you unfold the spare and a slight puff of dust rises from the dried out tubular. You put it on your wheel (fingers still smarting from pulling the flat oof of it), you pump it, sh***t, it won't hold air. You limp home.

That's old school!





(of course I haven't ridden on a tubular since ??? '85??)

peripatetic 12-03-05 02:09 AM

Hey sew-up junkies: found this poking about on ebay. Too costly for me, but Nitto makes nice stuff:

http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-NITTO-BICYCL...QQcmdZViewItem

ridesoldtrek 12-04-05 02:01 PM

Thank you to Lotek and whoever suggested this forum on tubulars. I still have an old set of sew-up wheels but don't ride them anymore. I rode sew-ups for about 10 years, starting in 1972 when I traded my Schwinn Varsity for a really cool new Gitane Interclub - a low-end racy version of the old Grand Sport which was very popular in SE Wisconsin in those days. I rode sew-ups all through high school, and into college, over any and every surface, toured a bit with full gear, even riding logging roads in northern WI and Montana.

I built a new set of wheels with tubular rims when I bought my Trek frame in 77, and rode tubulars for another 5 years or so. It was on a week long trip in northern WI when I finally cursed those tires enough to make the leap to clinchers (they didn't hold up that well to my riding style at the time - the streets of Madison, WI).

I resisted throwing them away, and now I have this spare set of wheels with Shimano 600 hubs and Fiamme red label rims languishing in my basement. Seems like a nice set of wheels, should get some tubulars and try them again.

I really appreciate all the advice and experience people are sharing - back when I was riding them, I was not very sophisticated, even though I patched and sewed them until I was sick of it, there wasn't much of a network for this kind of knowledge, and we muddled our way through things.

As for those that say they ride smoother - hmm, with all due respect I think that's nostalgia or elitism or style-addiction or something else fogging your judgement. Look closely at the mechanics and physics of the question. I just don't buy it. But I suppose if you close your eyes, click your brake levers three times and really believe....

luker 12-04-05 07:19 PM

I admit that I have nothing but subjective opinion to support my claim that they ride more smoothly. But, if we look at the physics of the question, we see that a tubular rim is an elegant, lightweight solution that because of its strong cross section can be made to be strong and still somewhat flexible, whereas a clincher needs extra mass to clinch the tire to the rim. The complicated cross section must preclude flex or the bead clinch runs the risk of failing. It is this more rigid rim design that makes the dang thangs ride like a skyed 87 Dodge Ram Pickup.

ridesoldtrek 12-04-05 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by luker
I admit that I have nothing but subjective opinion to support my claim that they ride more smoothly. But, if we look at the physics of the question, we see that a tubular rim is an elegant, lightweight solution that because of its strong cross section can be made to be strong and still somewhat flexible, whereas a clincher needs extra mass to clinch the tire to the rim. The complicated cross section must preclude flex or the bead clinch runs the risk of failing. It is this more rigid rim design that makes the dang thangs ride like a skyed 87 Dodge Ram Pickup.

I don't know, luker, sounds like you're grasping at straws there. Nice try, though. When you are riding on a smooth road, which is the best place for tubulars anyway, your argument for flex doesn't fly. I don't think it really flies even over a rough surface - that's one of the things that the advent of pneumatic tires did for us afterall. When you look at the amount of tension in a rim, etc etc etc (that's my way of saying it's late, and I really don't have time to get into the technical/engineering stuff right now - my brain is not up to it) well, I don't think it's something anyone can actually feel while riding except perhaps under the most extreme conditions.

One thing I do know that you can feel in a tire or wheel, and that's the effect of a fully loaded set panniers in the rear. Makes the tires feel like they are filled with concrete instead of air.

By the way, I do think it's perfectly OK to like them just because you think they feel groovy, and they're not what everyone else is riding, and there's something quaint or cool or whatever about a tire you have to fix by sewing it up with a needle and thread and glue them on the rim. That's part of what attracted my 15-year old sensibilities to them over 30 years ago. It will be nothing but pure nostalgia that coaxes money out of my pocket to get sew-ups back on a bike. It kept me from throwing them in the trash many times in the days before ebay.

I'll let you know if I actually fall for it.

peripatetic 12-04-05 11:05 PM

I know, geez, grump. What's up, Debbie Downer? Seems like r.o.t. should be in the roadies forum, not here in Classic & Vintage where nostalgia is kind of the point.

BTW what the hell's wrong with a little nostalgia, anyway? Heck, why ride a bike when you can just hop in a Hummer laden with goodies like on-board GPS and DVD players? You're logic amounts to general kill-joy joy.

Too tired to discuss the engineering, but not too tired to generally dampen someone else's mood.

* * *

My roommate, a cyclocrosser, just got through telling me that tubulars are far better for cyclocross racing; he said that he's lost a whole season to a couple of pinch flats on his old clinchers.

wildjim 12-05-05 01:42 AM

Tubular tires may "feel" different when ridden?

Consider This:

http://www.spokeandsprocket.com/cartgenie/pg_tires.asp

http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tires.html

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/r...e-tubular.html

http://www.jimlangley.net/wrench/tubular.html

lotek 12-05-05 08:32 AM

personally believe the ride has more to do with
TPI of good tubulars than anything else, good tubulars
just seem to glide over road imperfections.
now, this thread is about tubulars, sewups, singles or whatever you
want to call em.
Don't like em? don't read the thread
this isn't about opinions, physics of tubulars vs clinchers,
jobst brandt's rants etc. it is about the joy of riding a
good tubular and tips on maintenace, storage etc.

marty


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