Electric bikes
My wife (Stoker) and I have been riding various types of bikes for a long time: single road bikes, single mountain bikes, road tandems, etc.
Our team age is now 120+ and we decided to try electric bikes. We rented some and then bought a pair (we now own 9 bikes). After riding for a bit I noticed that e-bikes solve the same problem that tandems do - just in a different way: They allow 2 people with different abilities to ride together. The e-bikes we bought are sort of "hybrid" bikes. They are the Faraday brand. These are not really true road bikes and they are not mountain bikes. They are more like upright bikes that can do well on roads as well as bike paths and gravel paths (not suitable as true mountain bikes). They have 26 x 1.5" tires, belt drive, a Shimano Alfine 8 speed internally geared hub, disc brakes and a front hub motor. They have pedal-assist and the assist can be switched from none to low to high. Most of the time we ride with the motor turned off. When we approach a moderate hill, we can turn them to low boost. For a steeper hill we can switch to high boost. Riding these bikes makes us feel like kids again. The type of riding we do on them is "exploring". We still alternate with our road tandem but the ride is very different. We can go out for a 25 mile ride and only use about 25% of the range. Sometimes when we climb a long hill, I can switch to low boost and my wife will switch to high boost. I can crank up the hill and not be able to catch her. We both get a workout at our own pace. It is really fun to be able to ride side-by-side and each of us get the workout we want. Many bikers say they would never ride an e-bike. Several years ago we thought the same. However, never is a long time and at the point one gets where their choice is to ride an e-bike or not ride at all, would they really choose to not ride? We did consider motorizing our tandem but being able to ride side-by-side is a completely different experience. For now we will keep our tandem as human powered and ride our e-bikes in different venues and times. Other experiences? |
Tandem ebike
Originally Posted by oldacura
(Post 21114249)
My wife (Stoker) and I have been riding various types of bikes for a long time: single road bikes, single mountain bikes, road tandems, etc.
Our team age is now 120+ and we decided to try electric bikes. We rented some and then bought a pair (we now own 9 bikes). After riding for a bit I noticed that e-bikes solve the same problem that tandems do - just in a different way: They allow 2 people with different abilities to ride together. The e-bikes we bought are sort of "hybrid" bikes. They are the Faraday brand. These are not really true road bikes and they are not mountain bikes. They are more like upright bikes that can do well on roads as well as bike paths and gravel paths (not suitable as true mountain bikes). They have 26 x 1.5" tires, belt drive, a Shimano Alfine 8 speed internally geared hub, disc brakes and a front hub motor. They have pedal-assist and the assist can be switched from none to low to high. Most of the time we ride with the motor turned off. When we approach a moderate hill, we can turn them to low boost. For a steeper hill we can switch to high boost. Riding these bikes makes us feel like kids again. The type of riding we do on them is "exploring". We still alternate with our road tandem but the ride is very different. We can go out for a 25 mile ride and only use about 25% of the range. Sometimes when we climb a long hill, I can switch to low boost and my wife will switch to high boost. I can crank up the hill and not be able to catch her. We both get a workout at our own pace. It is really fun to be able to ride side-by-side and each of us get the workout we want. Many bikers say they would never ride an e-bike. Several years ago we thought the same. However, never is a long time and at the point one gets where their choice is to ride an e-bike or not ride at all, would they really choose to not ride? We did consider motorizing our tandem but being able to ride side-by-side is a completely different experience. For now we will keep our tandem as human powered and ride our e-bikes in different venues and times. Other experiences? |
Originally Posted by oldacura
(Post 21114249)
My wife (Stoker) and I have been riding various types of bikes for a long time: single road bikes, single mountain bikes, road tandems, etc.
Our team age is now 120+ and we decided to try electric bikes. We rented some and then bought a pair... ... Other experiences? So, I’m somewhat a fan of E-bikes without even riding one. And I hope to ride with own (muscle) power as long as possible plus looking forward exceeding our active lifetime by having that electric support too...sometimes… |
A little over 2 years ago, I converted our Calfee Tetra to an E-Tandem, I had full technical support from Rob Baird at Calfee.
We now have over 12,000 miles on the conversion and for us there is no turning back, it has made riding together even more enjoyable. We now ride where we want to go without having to take the wind direction into account. If the wind is strong I increase the assist level, our system has 9 levels of assist, it does not have a top speed limit and it is equipped with a throttle. We normally ride in level 2. Our typical ride is between 30 and 40 miles and we average around 20MPH. Our top pedal speed is limited by our gearing 48/11 and our cadence, stoker does not like going over 90. We can ride at 30 without and problem. The bike will run 36 with just the throttle. We are able to stay with any group ride and recently rode with an ultra marathon group and did a large percentage of the pace setting. |
This is timely as we too are are in the 120+yr experience and are about to take our long planned trip to Hawaii. We have decided to not hassle bringing our travel tandem as we will only have 1 or 2 opportunities to ride. My stoker will not ride solo and the only rental tandems seem to be beach cruisers so we are going to rent an electric beach cruiser tandem to try it out. We both are experienced enough to know what to expect from the heavy bike and are looking forward to seeing what possibilities electric would offer us.
My only fear is we won't want to go back to organically propelled. We'll post our impressions. |
Originally Posted by Alcanbrad
(Post 21116742)
This is timely as we too are are in the 120+yr experience and are about to take our long planned trip to Hawaii. We have decided to not hassle bringing our travel tandem as we will only have 1 or 2 opportunities to ride. My stoker will not ride solo and the only rental tandems seem to be beach cruisers so we are going to rent an electric beach cruiser tandem to try it out. We both are experienced enough to know what to expect from the heavy bike and are looking forward to seeing what possibilities electric would offer us.
My only fear is we won't want to go back to organically propelled. We'll post our impressions. |
My stoker and I have been riding together for 40+ years. Most of our together riding has been on tandems since 2000, until this past Spring, when she got a Trek Verve+, a class I e-assist hybrid. Cuts out at 20mph, no throttle. She had been advised by a cardiologist to limit her riding to aerobic exercise, only, which took us towards the e-bike. We have been alternating between riding our tandem and riding single bikes together. When we encounter steepish climbs, if we are on the tandem, I kick up my efforts, and if we are on single bikes, she goes up a level on the assist. She loves the Trek, and I enjoy riding with her on one of my recumbent singles. We're finding our tandem rides are averaging a couple of mph slower than when riding singles together. I'm generally riding as fast as I wish, and am challenged to keep up on climbs.
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Originally Posted by Alcanbrad
(Post 21116742)
This is timely as we too are are in the 120+yr experience and are about to take our long planned trip to Hawaii. We have decided to not hassle bringing our travel tandem as we will only have 1 or 2 opportunities to ride. My stoker will not ride solo and the only rental tandems seem to be beach cruisers so we are going to rent an electric beach cruiser tandem to try it out. We both are experienced enough to know what to expect from the heavy bike and are looking forward to seeing what possibilities electric would offer us.
My only fear is we won't want to go back to organically propelled. We'll post our impressions. Sixteen years ago we went to Maui with our coupled tandem and rode up (and down) Haleakala. Our team age at the time was 92. It was the hardest ride we have ever done. 10,000 vertical feet of climbing in about 40 miles. No support. It took us 9 hours to get up (7 hours of pedaling). About 2 hours riding down. I was so exhausted when we got down I could hardly sit up to eat dinner. Later this month we are going to Kauai. There aren't many roads I would choose to ride on in Kauai. Only 1 road around the island with a lot of tourists driving rental cars. We may rent some single bikes in Kapaa to ride along the bike paths on the east side of the island. I don't think there are any e-bikes to rent. Let us know how it goes for you. |
Originally Posted by oldacura
(Post 21117585)
What island(s) are you going to?
... Let us know how it goes for you. Will report back! Enjoy your trip as well. |
Not been to the Big Island. We're staying on the north shore in Kauai. On the east shore is the town of Kapaa. In Kapaa is Kauai Cycles. They rent bikes. I think they have a non-motorized beach-cruiser tandem. There are some pretty good bike paths north & south of Kapaa. I wouldn't suggest riding on the highway around Kauai (too busy).
In Maui is West Maui Cycles. I have never been there but I hear they rent bikes (maybe tandems). I'm not familiar with cycling on Maui except for Haleakala. I've heard that the West Maui Mountains make for good riding. Lots of traffic around the tourist areas of Maui. Riding down to Hana would be a real challenge (and maybe not recommended). I would think that West Maui Cycles would have some good recommendations on where to ride. Good luck & have fun. |
A late datapoint:
In our area one of the rider's was diagnosed with a heart condition and advised to maintain his heart rate below a certain threshold. Not wanting to give up his friends or sport he bought an e-bike and now sits in the pacelines with everyone else. E-bikes are nice tool for certain problems. |
With help from Dubt we converted our Co-motion using a Luna kit. It is now our Eco-motion. We are in our late 60’s and can now ride with our children who both ride tandems with their spouses. Even in the hilly areas in MI we can ride 40 mile rides with them and feel good after the ride. We could not ride with them or that long on our own. We are sold on it.
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Originally Posted by Alcanbrad
(Post 21117958)
We're starting in Kauia, then a big island, and then Maui. Our only target to ride is on Maui. Most, if not all of our vacations have been cycling centered, we're trying something different this time, though, I will get a ride or two in on a half bike and We'll try the electric tandem.
Will report back! Enjoy your trip as well. We ended up not renting an electric or organically propelled tandem. We found the roads either too trafficy or too narrow with too many tourists and my wife was not comfortable attempting to ride. I rented a half bike and rode a couple of dsys on Maui and was not impressed with the riding. To be fair we live in an area with almost limitless rural low/no traffic roads so we are somewhat spoiled. We have discussed it and intend to try an electric tandem when the opportunity presents itself next. |
We too just returned from Hawaii (Kauai). We did see a few riders on the main road around the island but I think these people are crazy. The roads are narrow with little or no shoulders and many tourists driving 50 mph on unfamiliar roads in rented cars.
From what I have seen Kauai is not a good place for road bikes. We did rent some beach cruisers and rode up & down a bikepath along the northeastern shore. This was a short, descent ride but the tradewinds weren't blowing and it was very hot and humid (87 F x 87%). |
We love our coupled Seven Ti, but I'm pretty sure there is a Hawthorne E-Assist with E-shifting somewhere in the not too distant future. I have two friends that have them. One of them put straight bars on instead of drops and says he won't go back. The machines are gorgeous and in my opinion well designed with the battery under the boom tube and the assist on the stoker crank.
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Originally Posted by Monoborracho
(Post 21155935)
We love our coupled Seven Ti, but I'm pretty sure there is a Hawthorne E-Assist with E-shifting somewhere in the not too distant future. I have two friends that have them. One of them put straight bars on instead of drops and says he won't go back. The machines are gorgeous and in my opinion well designed with the battery under the boom tube and the assist on the stoker crank.
FWIW, there are some tandem builds that put the assist motor up front, which remedies the above issue points, but presents others such as running all the captain + motor power through the (usually same-side drive) timing chain, plus needing to find a non-front eccentric (perhaps using a tension pulley). I would like to do this implementation for a mtb tandem, cause literally dragging my stoker up long steep climbs is not much fun and limits our trail range. Road tandeming is no problem and I don't see getting an assist for that at until we're at least 70yrs... only another decade :) |
Originally Posted by Monoborracho
(Post 21155935)
We love our coupled Seven Ti, but I'm pretty sure there is a Hawthorne E-Assist with E-shifting somewhere in the not too distant future. I have two friends that have them. One of them put straight bars on instead of drops and says he won't go back. The machines are gorgeous and in my opinion well designed with the battery under the boom tube and the assist on the stoker crank.
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My original posting was pointing out that electric single bikes were a different solution to a problem that tandems solve: To allow riders of different abilities to ride together. We have a human powered tandem as well as electric single bikes. We still ride both but the way each solves this problem is quite different.
I find that riding electric single bikes is fun because my wife can ride her own bike and we can ride side-by-side when we like. We both find this very enjoyable. I doubt that we will ever electrify our tandem. This would add a lot of cost and weight to a bike that we spent a lot of money to make as light as possible. When we get to the point that we can't easily ride under our own power, we will likely just ride the single e-bikes exclusively. - Just my perspective. |
Originally Posted by jim_pridx
(Post 21157516)
Just curious, but could you possibly tell me what the base price might be for a Hawthorne tandem? I don't see any prices on their website. I don't think we're quite ready for an E-assist bike quite yet, but I'll have to admit that for a couple in our mid-60s, the idea of having one some day intrigues me.
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Originally Posted by oldacura
(Post 21157764)
My original posting was pointing out that electric single bikes were a different solution to a problem that tandems solve: To allow riders of different abilities to ride together. We have a human powered tandem as well as electric single bikes. We still ride both but the way each solves this problem is quite different.
I find that riding electric single bikes is fun because my wife can ride her own bike and we can ride side-by-side when we like. We both find this very enjoyable. I doubt that we will ever electrify our tandem. This would add a lot of cost and weight to a bike that we spent a lot of money to make as light as possible. When we get to the point that we can't easily ride under our own power, we will likely just ride the single e-bikes exclusively. - Just my perspective. As far as opportunities to ride side-by-side SAFELY... IMO that is probably a lot less often than you think and I am never impressed by people who are inconsiderate enough to do that on bike paths... you know, get in MY way as I/we blast along. LOL. Everyone's perspective is just that. We had kind of a funny write up in the local rag here from one elderly lady who likes to totter along on what was specially built as a bike path. Her perspective was that bikes were not allowed to pass her until she acknowledge your warnings AND told she you it was ok for you to pass. Off topic, but amusing. FWIW, while I am proficient at riding any bike, I've had enough experience to know that I much dislike trying to ride the tandem among recreational singles. Racers have something of a clue, but not your average non-racer. Oil & Water Don't Mix. |
Originally Posted by twocicle
(Post 21159497)
On a single bike, my wife tends not to stick close enough to me to make "riding together" as enjoyable as on a tandem. Plus she doesn't do well in busy traffic situations. The tandem alleviates all that, especially when riding in Europe where she would be hopeless on a single - regardless of e-assist or not.
As far as opportunities to ride side-by-side SAFELY... IMO that is probably a lot less often than you think and I am never impressed by people who are inconsiderate enough to do that on bike paths... you know, get in MY way as I/we blast along. LOL. Everyone's perspective is just that. We had kind of a funny write up in the local rag here from one elderly lady who likes to totter along on what was specially built as a bike path. Her perspective was that bikes were not allowed to pass her until she acknowledge your warnings AND told she you it was ok for you to pass. Off topic, but amusing. FWIW, while I am proficient at riding any bike, I've had enough experience to know that I much dislike trying to ride the tandem among recreational singles. Racers have something of a clue, but not your average non-racer. Oil & Water Don't Mix. |
Originally Posted by twocicle
(Post 21159497)
I've had enough experience to know that I much dislike trying to ride the tandem among recreational singles. Racers have something of a clue, but not your average non-racer. Oil & Water Don't Mix.
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Originally Posted by Monoborracho
(Post 21159385)
It will depend on how much customization you want, but from my prelim conversation a couple of years ago, I think you need to be thinking in the 15K+ range for a coupled bike with some customization.
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Originally Posted by Monoborracho
(Post 21159634)
We no longer do the Hotter'n Hell 100 for the very reasons you mention. Mixing it up with 15000 singles and a couple of hundred, at the most, tandems just doesn't work.
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Originally Posted by twocicle
(Post 21160288)
Yes. In perspective, I've had my fill of "big events" even on my single. Seen too much carnage, bother and expense, and came to the conclusion I'll ride on my own for free thanks.
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Originally Posted by JanMM
(Post 21117239)
My stoker and I have been riding together for 40+ years. Most of our together riding has been on tandems since 2000, until this past Spring, when she got a Trek Verve+, a class I e-assist hybrid.
I am thinking about either getting an e-bike kit for my road bike (maybe from Calfee) or looking at an e-gravel bike. I like slightly relaxed road geometry, and rack and fender mounts - that's what my road bike has. My captain and I have combined age of ~115. I've had a below knee amputation on 1 leg for many years. That Verve+ is a revelation for me - at the low assistance setting, it's less effort to cruise at 13mph on a 50lb bike than it is to pedal at 12mph on my light road bike. |
I agree completely with the original post. Personally I think a light assist is even BETTER on a tandem than on singles. Being that they tend to be poor on watt to weight, it suits them well. To the OP, I would reconsider it.
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