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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

wahoonc 08-19-12 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 14625805)

Interesting I would think that was not a US market bike, but one that someone brought over.

Aaron :)

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 06:27 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 10944889)
The 3-speed hub on the $30 Raleigh Sports that I posted about recently was pretty much fubar when I bought the bike. After I took the hub out of the wheel, I overfilled it with ATF and exercised the crap out of it in all forward gears and back pedal. I thought that I was going to have to take it apart, but after messing with it for relatively brief periods over several days, and draining and re-overfilling, it started to work ok. all three gears would engage and it would "coast" properly. Eventually, it stopped leaking ATF and appeared to be fine. I built it into a new wheel and it's on the bike and it performs flawlessly. Shifts easily, coasts properly, back pedals properly -- what can I say, I'm in Sturmey Archer Nirvana. The moral of this story is, just because your 3-speed hub isn't happy right now doesn't mean it won't respond to a ltittle massaging -- even while enclosed.

Hey desconhecido I don't know if you're still out there on this thread but I wanted to give proper credit to the post that inspired me to begin a method of salvaging old 3-speed hubs that have been weather abused.

What you see in an ATF bath is an early 70's Shimano but I'll be using the same method on SA's too.

I plan to soak it for about a week and then build a simple jig that will suspend it over the container and let it drain for another week or so.

This hub seemed to "snik" just fine but I want it to be completely reconditioned without going into it and the ATF method sounds like the simplest and least labor intensive way.

Thanks for the idea!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268330

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 14626019)
Interesting I would think that was not a US market bike, but one that someone brought over.

Aaron :)

Yes, it's very unusual with that curved top tube. Looks kinda neat too IMO.

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 06:37 PM

1 Attachment(s)
View of hub in Post 3454 as it looked on the donor bike, an AMF built for K-Mart and private labeled as an "All Star".

I'll probably bead blast the shell as the chrome is too far gone.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=268332

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 06:50 PM

RE POST 440 [of this thread]
 

Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 10949154)
The way that the hub worked was by a very slight backwards torque. Too slight to engage the coaster brake, almost unnoticeable, but it would shift between the two gearings. I never owned one of these bicycles as they were way too expensive for us, but I did ride several owned by wealthier friends and my recollection is that they worked very, very well. My guess is that the two gears were low, and direct -- sort of like the two lower speeds on an AW hub. But that's a guess.

You are precisely correct in your educated guess. A few months back I picked up a late 60's Schwinn Co-ed for cheap and it's a great bike with the Bendix 2-speed hub. Although it's too small for me, I rode it around for a few days while I was getting it properly "mothballed" and the 2-speed is pretty easy to get the hang of. My only complaint is that if you stop it in LOW gear it wants to start in HIGH gear because you "upshifted" when you braked.

That takes a little getting used to but it's no worse than dealing with a SA thumb shifter where the faceplate has been lost or stolen [a frequent occurrence unfortunately] and you're not sure if your take off is in 1 or 2.

Anyway, FWIW, you're exactly right that Schwinn at least geared these hubs to be 1 and 2, IOW, no "overdrive" 3rd.

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 08:39 PM

650a alloy rims?
 
At 772 you say:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 11332598)
Consider that if you buy a Raleigh Sports and fork out a little cash to have new 650A alloy wheels built you have a bike that is every bit as nice as a Pashley... and in my opinion... a bike that is just a little classier.

I'm pretty much sold on these old Raleighs and I have a LOT of "saddle time" on to me - LOL. [5 coast-to-coast trips across the lower 48 between '71 & '73, mostly on Harleys etc.etc.etc.]

Who do you recommend for building these 650A bicycle wheels? I'm kinda anal about quality and I'd definitely want someone who could/would do a better job than me & me redneck friends....

PHT 08-19-12 08:59 PM

Re: tires- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Rale...item1c20810926

Anyone order from this seller on ebay? This listing intrigues me. As a bike shop I can get cheap tires cheap. But I want a quality BLACK WALL tire at a reasonable cost for my personal ride. Col De La Vies cost me only a few bucks less after shipping from the UK on these, and I know they have a great reputation but I can only get them in gumwall. I really want to stay black on my ride! The Record tread pattern from this ebay seller closesly matches the (possibly original) Raleigh Red Dot tire that I'm already happy with. I cant tell from the listing if these are NOS tires or repros or what...

Any help/experience/comments/blatherings/blessings/etc welcome!

PalmettoUpstate 08-19-12 09:28 PM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 11415923)
1977 Raleigh Folder

Musing...

Although I can't ride the new Twenty as far or at the same speed I can with the Raleigh Sports or my modified P20 folder I have really been enjoying it and have been riding it daily for over a week... mostly for short trips around the neighborhood and as far as the bike co-op which is a 14km return trip.

For any longer trips I need drop bars as this whole sitting upright still isn't all it can be but has been a little better of late and I can still ride farther on the twenty than I can walk.

It has gotten me to thinking why we have such affection for these bicycles and think much of it comes down to their relative simplicity... a Sturmey Archer 3 speed is a complex mechanical device but designed in such a way that we rarely have to think about what it actually does. Only a coaster bike is simpler.

There is something about riding along on a crisp fall-like day and hearing the tick tick tick of that hub as it does what it does so well and despite one's desire to go faster the bike politely reminds us that sometimes, faster is not better, and that there is nothing wrong with pootling and enjoying the sights and smells of the season.

These bikes have soul and character and until recently were relatively unwanted, gathering dust, or being unceremoniously tossed in favour of newer more technologically advanced machines and it is so good to see that people are out there saving them and giving them some love.

And we seem to be doing a good job of spreading the gospel of simpler is better and that riding a three speed can be good for one's soul.

:)

The heart of the thread. [thus spake from a conservative English major who finds Flannery O'Connor & James Joyce to be pap compared to people who actually DID things... People like Hemingway and London and Clemens....

Ride a bike, you won't regret it!

Nerdy Norm 08-20-12 12:08 AM


Originally Posted by PHT (Post 14626734)
Re: tires- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Rale...item1c20810926

Anyone order from this seller on ebay? This listing intrigues me. As a bike shop I can get cheap tires cheap. But I want a quality BLACK WALL tire at a reasonable cost for my personal ride. Col De La Vies cost me only a few bucks less after shipping from the UK on these, and I know they have a great reputation but I can only get them in gumwall. I really want to stay black on my ride! The Record tread pattern from this ebay seller closesly matches the (possibly original) Raleigh Red Dot tire that I'm already happy with. I cant tell from the listing if these are NOS tires or repros or what...

Any help/experience/comments/blatherings/blessings/etc welcome!

I can't vouch for the product, but I've dealt with the seller on several occasions with no problems.

Raleigh list the tyre on their site, so I guess it's just a standard line which can be ordered from any of their dealers:
http://www.shopraleigh.co.uk/Product...&pt=164&pg=689

smontanaro 08-20-12 04:44 AM


Originally Posted by PHT (Post 14626734)
Re: tires- http://www.ebay.com/itm/Genuine-Rale...item1c20810926

Anyone order from this seller on ebay? This listing intrigues me.

I've no experience with this seller. I did note that he currently has four auctions for Raleigh tyres active which cover this space. The prices aren't all the same, so it's worth checking all of them out.

Skip

waverley610 08-20-12 01:43 PM

Boy and Bicycle ~ Tony Scott RIP
 
Sad news today of British Film Director, Tony Scott's untimely death.

Tony is seen here starring in brother Ridley's first film, which was shot on location in their native Hartlepool, taking nearly two years to complete!

The entire film is available online.


R.I.P.




Super.bee 08-21-12 02:00 PM

Hello 3-speeders,

I have questions regarding rebuilding a trash-pick lady's Sports, chrome, and wanted also to ask about etiquette re: 'enabling', ie, forum members making purchases for others when a bike is outside one's local area.

On the Sports, I hit too many roadblocks at once and would like to get rolling on it again, and could use some resto counseling if anyone can help!

The first hurdle is the fenders. They were both dented. I have knocked the dents out enough that the (newly laced w/ old hubs and new rims) wheels turn. But I'd love to do better. Does anyone have better advice/method than knocking it out with hammer blows on a curved wood implement, against a rag-covered surface? I don't think I can get that close to the original profile this way and feel like a neanderthal, when someone probably has a great system for such things.

Next is the labels. The stripes are peeling badly but still attached. Is there a good way to reattach them? For the missing labels, is anyone reliably doing repro labels currently? I looked into a laser print water-slide product from papilio, but I would need to draw the graphics, and then I worry it would wash off in the rain. Any suggestions?

And then there are the wheels. My wife and I built them with stainless straight spokes, but hadn't heard of the need for washers when using old hubs. I don't like either the idea of riding them and breaking spokes, nor the idea of detensioning the wheels, delacing, adding the washers, etc.

Regarding the purchases, is there a spoken or unspoken rule or guideline about when and where it is proper to ask for such help, if at all?

Thanks for all the great bikes, stories, and advice!

rhm 08-21-12 05:19 PM

Ask away! If you annoy people by asking too much, they may say no.

The waterslide decal paper you run through a laser printer is pretty waterproof. For additional toughness you can clearcoat it either before or after applying it to the bike, or both if you really like the smell of clearcoat. For the real thing, try H Lloyd in England.

Knocking dents out of fenders is not my forte, sorry!

Despite all the recommendations to use washers with spokes, I never do. I know, I know, I'm playing with fire. But no problems. I'd say you'll be okay. Just make sure there's enough tension on the spokes.

Velognome 08-21-12 06:24 PM


The first hurdle is the fenders. They were both dented. I have knocked the dents out enough that the (newly laced w/ old hubs and new rims) wheels turn. But I'd love to do better. Does anyone have better advice/method than knocking it out with hammer blows on a curved wood implement, against a rag-covered surface? I don't think I can get that close to the original profile this way and feel like a neanderthal, when someone probably has a great system for such things.
That's about the way to do it. Short of calling in a favor from someone with experince, just get the fenders close and hen keep an eye out for a donor bike or a set of fenders at a swap that are in better shape.

PalmettoUpstate 08-22-12 10:25 AM

Hey that bike is really nice. About a 19" seat tube? [and have you weighed it?]


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 12032145)
My wife bought this bike at a yard sale for $5. It's a "Flying Eagle" that was "Made in Germany (West)" but pretty clearly for the American department store market. Twin top tubes (proto-mixte?) and gas tanks are not a German design feature. It had a Centrix coaster brake, but I upgraded to an F&S threespeed coaster brake hub. She loves it.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5041/...065b1ce7_b.jpg

You might want to look at Ross bikes as well. They usually have Shimano gears, but they're pretty well made. American. Some are lugged.


rhm 08-22-12 11:30 AM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 14638164)
Hey that bike is really nice. About a 19" seat tube? [and have you weighed it?]

The seat tube is 45 cm, a bit under 18". I have not weighed it. It is not a light bike.

Super.bee 08-22-12 04:59 PM

Encouragement!
 

Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14635403)
Ask away! If you annoy people by asking too much, they may say no.

Thank you rhm for the encouragement. That's all I could hope for!

If there is anyone around Cape Ann MA who might be willing to assist with a DL-1 acquisition, I'd love to hear from you. For your trouble I can offer in trade probably only things you already have, but who knows.


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14635403)
The waterslide decal paper you run through a laser printer is pretty waterproof. For additional toughness you can clearcoat it either before or after applying it to the bike, or both if you really like the smell of clearcoat. For the real thing, try H Lloyd in England.

What a great source, one I have not seen mentioned. Thanks for the review of the waterslide decal material too.


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14635403)
Despite all the recommendations to use washers with spokes, I never do. I know, I know, I'm playing with fire. But no problems. I'd say you'll be okay. Just make sure there's enough tension on the spokes.

This makes me feel better. I know I'll run into someone who says I shoulda. I guess I can do the next set of wheels with washers and ride the heck out of both to see which one lasts longer!


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 14635671)
That's about the way to do it. Short of calling in a favor from someone with experince, just get the fenders close and hen keep an eye out for a donor bike or a set of fenders at a swap that are in better shape.

OK, thanks velognome for the encouragement! I don't know anyone with experience. As for swaps, I fear that I have what others would consider the parts bike (tho not for the fenders). I suppose a set of old painted fenders could be blasted and plated anew...

Velognome 08-22-12 06:59 PM


I fear that I have what others would consider the parts bike
Perfect! So every trade, every part found, cleaned and painted will be an improvement! This hobby can get addictive.....I sense this 3spd of yours will just prove to be the tip of your iceberg!

conradpdx 08-22-12 09:55 PM

As for dented up fenders....I'm an iron worker with a jeweler wife (got the tools and the know how)....And I've come about as close to perfect as you can get without the original roller presses, but to hire someone to do it (or at least what I would have to charge to do it) you'd be best looking for better used replacements, especially considering when for a Raleigh fender they'd also have to be repainted.

Also some dent's can't be taken out.

All in all it's a pretty tedious process, steel has a memory and you can coax it close to original shape by heating the metal with a torch and letting it cool off. You gotta be careful not to heat it too much, or it will just melt, and if you don't heat it up enough it wont work. Then you have to carefully work the creases out with with hammer and dies, I usually do this on a sandbag. Of course then on a painted surface you'd have to repaint as the torch would burn the paint off.

Though honestly I've never done it on a painted fender. But even though I can do it, I prefer to buy new (or new to me) ones. And I save this kind of work only for fenders that are too hard to find quickly. Last time I did it was for a kids bike flip with a badly dented 16" wheel chrome fender. Turned out great, and I regret not thinking of doing a tutorial on it till I was most the way done with it. I'll try to remember next time.

<edit> just noticed you mentioned you had a chrome one. It can be done. But it's tricky cause you're dealing with 3 different metals. You're not going to get much from the heating and cooling it because steel has a higher melting temp than the (most likely) copper middle layer or the nickle top layer, and to anneal the steel you're going to damage the copper middle layer and possibly the nickle. It's mostly a pound job, I can usually get the heat method to take about half the dent out before the pounding starts.

slowtostart 08-23-12 02:43 AM

I recently discovered a 1956 hub dated Sports and am now interested in the evolution of Brooks saddles. The underside of this B72L has an additional thinner layer of leather from the sit bones area to the nose. Unlike the B72L from a 1972 Sports, there is no splaying of the seat. Was this second layer typical of older saddles? Should I apply Proofhide to this thinner layer? There is some crazing to the top side of the seat, but it is sound and looking better after one application of Proofhide.

Also, as I started cleaning the wheels I noticed that the rim area where the spokes attach has a uniformly duller finish than the rest of the chrome rim. It is the same on both wheels. Do I just need to polish more or is this a sign of normal decay?

Thanks for any advice or information you may have to offer.

PalmettoUpstate 08-23-12 04:11 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by rhm (Post 14638519)
The seat tube is 45 cm, a bit under 18". I have not weighed it. It is not a light bike.

Heh-heh. One good turn deserves another; check it out:

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=269033

clubman 08-23-12 06:36 PM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 14641638)
I recently discovered a 1956 hub dated Sports and am now interested in the evolution of Brooks saddles. The underside of this B72L has an additional thinner layer of leather from the sit bones area to the nose. Unlike the B72L from a 1972 Sports, there is no splaying of the seat. Was this second layer typical of older saddles? Should I apply Proofhide to this thinner layer? There is some crazing to the top side of the seat, but it is sound and looking better after one application of Proofhide.

Also, as I started cleaning the wheels I noticed that the rim area where the spokes attach has a uniformly duller finish than the rest of the chrome rim. It is the same on both wheels. Do I just need to polish more or is this a sign of normal decay?

Thanks for any advice or information you may have to offer.

Hey sts...just proofhide the top of the saddle. There's so many permutations of Brooks saddles and there's no real all encompassing history that I've seen.

The dull centre line is correct for early 50's Dunlop rims...sometimes you get lucky with stainless spokes too.

slowtostart 08-24-12 05:44 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 14644827)
Hey sts...just proofhide the top of the saddle. There's so many permutations of Brooks saddles and there's no real all encompassing history that I've seen.

The dull centre line is correct for early 50's Dunlop rims...sometimes you get lucky with stainless spokes too.

Thanks, I feel better now. I was so excited to see how well the chrome was cleaning up only to feel dismay with my failure to polish between the spokes The tires, Dunlop Sports, appear to be much newer and show less wear than the rest of this poor old girl. The black housing for the rear reflector is still there, but the reflective part is gone. Any thoughts on reapair?

The seat is looking much better. Time to order more Proofhide.

wahoonc 08-24-12 06:53 AM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 14646240)
Thanks, I feel better now. I was so excited to see how well the chrome was cleaning up only to feel dismay with my failure to polish between the spokes The tires, Dunlop Sports, appear to be much newer and show less wear than the rest of this poor old girl. The black housing for the rear reflector is still there, but the reflective part is gone. Any thoughts on reapair?

The seat is looking much better. Time to order more Proofhide.

Depending on the diameter of the housing you might be able to purchase on from someone like Yellow Jersey and disassemble it for the reflector. I have actually used a Dremel to cut a larger one down to fit before. Otherwise haunt Epay and wait for one to show up.

Aaron :)

Prop Man 08-24-12 11:07 AM

2 Attachment(s)
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=269183I know it's not English--just think of it as Mr. Raleigh's American cousin. My 1959 Schwinn Paramount Tourist 3-speed.


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