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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 09-10-17 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by NoPhart (Post 19852343)
Hi all. Love my Sturmey-Archer (SA) 3spd! The 33% gear spacing is wonderful, but I am experiencing axle twist that snaps washers, serrated lock nuts and even shattered a shift side axle nut into three pieces with the torque I put through it. I'm wondering if there is any type of premade metal bracket or torque arm that already has the exact SA 13/32 flat sided slot in it that I can adapt to my "electric assist" ride.

The bike is a Soma B-Side V2 Belt Drive with a Bafang BBS02B mid-drive. The additional torque these electric assist motors put on the standard bicycle parts is enormous and clearly more than they are designed for. Even the many torque washers aren't up for the task.

My CS-RK3 has HNM423 serrated locknuts on the inside of the "vertical" dropouts and HMW534(HMW518) sintered 9.5mm single tab anti-rotation washers on the outside. The forward/reverse torque eventually loosens the axle nut a smidge on each counterclockwise motion, but obviously never retightens a smidge on clockwise motion; so the nuts eventually loosen. I plan to make a torque plate, but I'd like to start with a premade product if it exists.

So, does any type of premade SA metal bracket or torque arm already exist with the exact SA 13/32 flat sided slot in it?

I would suggest getting a DL-1 roadster instead of the lightweight DL-22 type frame. Far more rugged with a rear fork like a racing bike instead of a brazed in drop out. You'ld have to have reeeeel strong legs to flex one of those puppies.
edit: If you really love 3 speeds, you'll end up with one someday anyway!

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4319/...aff3960f_b.jpg73DL1a by Billy Bones, on Flickr

adventurepdx 09-10-17 01:59 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19852545)
Here you go

Thanks!:thumb:

3speedslow 09-10-17 02:11 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19852588)
Another note!! This is exactly the cable end you want for old window shifters. The later crimped on ends are too fat and tend to not seat properly and get stuck in the hardened plate. Either use a cable with this sort of end or use a piece of 3/32" brass tubing attached with JB weld.

Great! Lucked out with out even knowing it.

adventurepdx 09-10-17 02:16 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19852545)
Here you go


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19852588)
Another note!! This is exactly the cable end you want for old window shifters. The later crimped on ends are too fat and tend to not seat properly and get stuck in the hardened plate. Either use a cable with this sort of end or use a piece of 3/32" brass tubing attached with JB weld.

While I got you folks on the phone, would either of these cables work with the window shifter?
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/WMMAAO...Q1/s-l1600.jpg

http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/OTMAAO...Q5/s-l1600.jpg

bicycle Three Speed Cable Kits Shifter Sturmey/Archer 3/Speed Hub Black. | eBay

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/eYUAA...8SA/s-l500.jpg

3speedslow 09-10-17 02:22 PM

Huffy.... might work if it is long enough, does not look it.

Universal... looks long enough and has the proper end for a trigger shift.

Defer as always to other more knowledgeable then i

BigChief 09-10-17 03:20 PM

There's a bunch of different sizes. It looks like the black one was made so it would work for any 3 speed, but you would need cable cutters to fit it to your bike. It has the smaller cast end and the threaded ferrule. And it comes with the pinch bolt adapter which isn't as elegant as a closely sized straight to barrel adjuster, but is far easier to install. The white one looks like it has the fatter crimped end which would work, sort of, but they are usually too fat to seat in the trigger properly. I don't like them. They can be a real bear to remove if you need to change the cable since they jam in there. I'd say go with the black one if you have access to a cable cutter. You can't go wrong. The white one might work, but I can't tell for sure by seeing it in the package.

BigChief 09-10-17 05:47 PM

I just measured , as best I could, the cable on one of my Raleigh Sports bikes. The casing is about 19" long. The overall length of the cable is around 55" but if you use a pinch bolt adapter, you'll want a couple of extra inches so figure 57" You do have a couple of inches wiggle room with the cable casing length since you can move the fulcrum clip along the top tube. And you have plenty of + and - on the cable length if you use the pinch bolt. I know it's a pest, but unless you find a NOS cable that's specifically marked Raleigh Sports, you can't be sure it will fit. Even then, in the later years, the Sports changed to a downtube routing with a long cable case and a fulcrum clip mounted on the chainstay. Lots of different brands used SA hubs. Then there's the issue of ball joint ferrules that won't work with threaded shifters and those clunky crimped ends the don't fit properly in the older shifters. That is why I make up my own cables.

adventurepdx 09-10-17 08:11 PM

Okay! One last one: This one looks good to me. It's 65" overall with 25" in housing. (FYI: I'd be routing cable via top tube to seatstay). Does it look good to you?

Commando 09-10-17 08:15 PM

NOS Brampton
 
http://www.bikeforums.net/[img]https...bc44f05b1e.jpghttp://www.bikeforums.net/<a href=ht...bc44f05b1e.jpg Hello All,


My Raleigh Superbe has been running faultlessly for a long while now, still enjoying leisurely weekend rides, the gentle tick-tick-tick keeping me company.

I've been packing up the house in preparation for selling, but the thought of future builds is always on my mind. I had been keeping my eye out for a Brampton shifter to go with an old hub I had laying around, so when I saw an NOS Brampton 3 speed hub kit offered for sale, I grabbed it. Has got everything in the box, shifter, cable, pulley, ferrules and clips. Not sure exactly what I'll do with it yet, but for now it goes into storage with the rest of the stuff until a new home is found.


https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4410/...705bab6e60.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4433/...bc44f05b1e.jpg

3speedslow 09-10-17 08:32 PM

Wow! Find a new house fast.

BigChief 09-10-17 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 19853329)
Okay! One last one: This one looks good to me. It's 65" overall with 25" in housing. (FYI: I'd be routing cable via top tube to seatstay). Does it look good to you?
Gear Cable For Sturmey Archer 3 Spd Trigger or Grip Twist Shift Shifter on Bike | eBay

This would work. The casing is a bit long, but at 25" it would only curve out in front of the handlebars a couple of inches more than usual. It has the better cast end and threaded ferrule you need. You would need to cut off the big barrel end on the other side of the cable and do it without fraying the end of the cable because you have to thread it through the small hole on the pinch bolt. I've always had cable cutters. I've never done it any other way. Maybe someone here knows another way to make a clean cut on the cable. A grinding wheel maybe. I can't say. This cable has what you need, but you will be faced with the need of cutting the other end off.

adventurepdx 09-10-17 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19853513)
This would work. The casing is a bit long, but at 25" it would only curve out in front of the handlebars a couple of inches more than usual. It has the better cast end and threaded ferrule you need. You would need to cut off the big barrel end on the other side of the cable and do it without fraying the end of the cable because you have to thread it through the small hole on the pinch bolt. I've always had cable cutters. I've never done it any other way. Maybe someone here knows another way to make a clean cut on the cable. A grinding wheel maybe. I can't say. This cable has what you need, but you will be faced with the need of cutting the other end off.

Thanks for the help! :o
Rather have too much cable/housing than too little...

Commando 09-10-17 10:36 PM


Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19853380)
Wow! Find a new house fast.


He he, certainly plan to. Still have to sell, goes on the market next month, then the search begins. One of the two reasons for moving is I need a bigger shed.
Spent the last 2 weeks packup up the workshop, most of it now in a storage unit. Kept one bike availabe for the odd chance I can get some time for a ride.

bazil4696 09-11-17 06:19 AM

[QUOTE=gster;19851996]Despite saying (to myself) NO MORE BIKES!!!
I'm going to pick this Superbe up today.
It was offered to me for a very reasonable $50.00 (CDN) and I couldn't resist.....
Looks fairly complete and in good shape.


Looks like a GREAT find! Nice project material. Too bad the head and tail light is missing.
68-72 by the looks of them stickers.

bazil4696 09-11-17 06:59 AM

Supercycle!
 
4 Attachment(s)
I picked up a couple of Raleigh built Supercycles last year, These were sold through Canadian Tire stores in Canada, but were made in Nottingham by Raleigh.
Both came with steel pedals, and chrome fenders, but sadly both bike are 21 inch frames. Somehow, at six feet and 210 pounds, I don't mind riding the slightly smaller frame. So, I switched my aluminum rims and continental City ride tires over and decided to ride one for a time. Geared with a 21t sprocket, I like it in the wind, but im preferring the 20T I have fitted on the 71 Superbe.

1)The first shot is how i received them both.
2)Next shows the one I chose to refurbish next to my Superbe, which got the other sister's chrome fenders donated.
3)I fitted an aluminum rack with the bracketry I fabbed for a rackless Superbe last yr.
4)The way I rode it around Burlington bay on the labour day wknd

3speedslow 09-11-17 04:32 PM

Super looking pair of machines you have. I really like the golden frames of those supercycles. The chrome fenders, chaingaurd does not hurt either. They both look to be in wonderful condition too. Those would be great to ride around next year during Canada Day.

3speedslow 09-11-17 04:41 PM

1 Attachment(s)
So, while I was reading about a member's cable search and looking at the various one he threw up, I began to have a question form in the back of my mind. It finally came out today. I wonder what length my ne cable is and will it work for my project?

Got out the tape measure and put it to my Rudge. The housing could stand to be 20" long with the exposed cable taking about 38" or so to reach the hub. Looked at the package and, holy moly!, I got a long cable to work with. I would rather not have to cut the end and instead use the hub adjuster that came with it. I will go back to the LBS and see if I can scrounge a shorter set up.

gster 09-11-17 05:10 PM


Originally Posted by bazil4696 (Post 19853842)
I picked up a couple of Raleigh built Supercycles last year, These were sold through Canadian Tire stores in Canada, but were made in Nottingham by Raleigh.
Both came with steel pedals, and chrome fenders, but sadly both bike are 21 inch frames. Somehow, at six feet and 210 pounds, I don't mind riding the slightly smaller frame. So, I switched my aluminum rims and continental City ride tires over and decided to ride one for a time. Geared with a 21t sprocket, I like it in the wind, but im preferring the 20T I have fitted on the 71 Superbe.

1)The first shot is how i received them both.
2)Next shows the one I chose to refurbish next to my Superbe, which got the other sister's chrome fenders donated.
3)I fitted an aluminum rack with the bracketry I fabbed for a rackless Superbe last yr.
4)The way I rode it around Burlington bay on the labour day wknd

I like those gold bikes.
I often wonder if there's any difference in quality compared to an English branded bike...
The only skimping I see might be the chainguard. I would imagine chrome fenders are more expensive than painted.

gster 09-11-17 05:25 PM

Funny Business
 
2 Attachment(s)
The seller told me that the $50.00 Superbe was not shifting properly and he was right.
It sounded good on the free spin but in gear was making some strange clicking sounds.
Now that I've had the guts out of anothre hub a few times I wasn't worried.
On inspection it appears that the hub was "serviced" (perhaps recently) and had not been re assembled properly.
The adjustable cone was far too tight and spacer/washer was on the outside of the lock nut.
The guts look good and are currently soaking in solvent.
We'll see on re assembly.
[ATTACH]Attachment 580172

Attachment 580173[/ATTACH]
Also, it has a 17t cog which I'll swap out for another one more forgiving.

bazil4696 09-11-17 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19855254)
I like those gold bikes.
I often wonder if there's any difference in quality compared to an English branded bike...
The only skimping I see might be the chainguard. I would imagine chrome fenders are more expensive than painted.

The chrome fenders came on Eaton's Gliders too, (and the fancy Superbe only block pedals) however the heavy guage wire fender supports are not anywhere near as sturdy as the stamped ones on painted Raleigh branded fenders.
The serial numbers are decoded as Raleigh, they are Raleighs, apart from the obvious fork and crank differences.
The brake levers and calipers, the odd 26 pitch threads and 13/32 goofy slotted washers are great for a real branded restoration, or in my case, a freshening up with bling fenders.

gster 09-11-17 05:46 PM

[QUOTE=bazil4696;19853802]

Originally Posted by gster (Post 19851996)
Despite saying (to myself) NO MORE BIKES!!!
I'm going to pick this Superbe up today.
It was offered to me for a very reasonable $50.00 (CDN) and I couldn't resist.....
Looks fairly complete and in good shape.


Looks like a GREAT find! Nice project material. Too bad the head and tail light is missing.
68-72 by the looks of them stickers.

Thanks.
Headlight and bracket were included and I probably have a rear light kicking around.
I also have a rear reflector that might work.

clubman 09-11-17 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 19855254)
I like those gold bikes.
I often wonder if there's any difference in quality compared to an English branded bike...
The only skimping I see might be the chainguard. I would imagine chrome fenders are more expensive than painted.

I've never noticed any diff in build quality and have worked on many of those marques . A positive side of chrome is they didn't have to keep the frames/accessories colour matched from the same batch. That Raleigh green came in many hues over the decades. Maybe it was cheaper in the mass production environment, as mentioned there were Supercycles, Gliders, Western Flyers, AMF Hercules and re-brands all around the world.

chainercygnus 09-11-17 06:20 PM

Is there a good (preferably single location) resource dealing primarily with restoring old English 3-Speed, spelling out any idiosyncrasies they might have so that I can go into restoring mine a little more confidently? Especially considering I have never seen another one here in Boise that I can remember.

gster 09-11-17 06:29 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Attachment 580183

Originally Posted by clubman (Post 19855388)
I've never noticed any diff in build quality and have worked on many of those marques . A positive side of chrome is they didn't have to keep the frames/accessories colour matched from the same batch. That Raleigh green came in many hues over the decades. Maybe it was cheaper in the mass production environment, as mentioned there were Supercycles, Gliders, Western Flyers, AMF Hercules and re-brands all around the world.

This $20.00 Supercycle was purchased for the sole purpose of scavenging Raleigh brake levers, trigger, cranks, etc.

clubman 09-11-17 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by chainercygnus (Post 19855407)
Is there a good (preferably single location) resource dealing primarily with restoring old English 3-Speed, spelling out any idiosyncrasies they might have so that I can go into restoring mine a little more confidently? Especially considering I have never seen another one here in Boise that I can remember.


Sheldon Brown
for information and this forum for advice. Parts are available from many sources, there's really not one central place to shop.


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