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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 09-19-17 04:37 PM

I think it's original. The transfers are still on the down tube and chainguard. It's just a very rare model. Wish I knew the story behind it.

BigChief 09-19-17 04:55 PM

1 Attachment(s)
I'm making a shifter cable for my green Sports project bike using the 3/32" brass tubing. Thought I'd post a picture.
Here's the tools I use. I put the JB Weld on and gave it a couple of slight crimps.

Attachment 581398

3speedslow 09-19-17 06:02 PM

So you put the JB weld on the cable then slide the tube over it, then crimp?

BigChief 09-19-17 07:59 PM

Yes, you can see where I slid the tube up and down and gave it a few turns to make sure it was filled with JB. The JB Weld holds tight to the cable because of all the serrations. I put a slight crimp in the brass before the JB sets as an extra measure. The hardened JB would have to pass through the smaller space at the crimp to slip. I used to silver braze these, but it isn't necessary. The JB Weld is just as strong if not stronger since the cable doesn't need to be heated. The tubing works for the barrel adjuster as well as the trigger shifter, so there is no need for a pinch bolt adapter. I've been using this system for years now and it is reliable and easy to do. I just buy regular shifter inner cable and cut the end off with a cable cutter and either reuse the old casing or cut a piece of new to fit.

El Segundo 09-19-17 08:28 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19871833)
I used a pair of Tektro R559s on my Rudge Sports scorcher project. This is supposed to be a hot rod style. It already has a alloy case AW hub. Aluminum front wheel and a CR-18 rim is planned for the rear. I figured the aluminum brakes would fit nicely with the scorcher theme. On the front, it works fine, but the housing compression over the length of the rear brake uses up too much of the lever travel. I was hoping the new cable would settle in but I've been riding it a while now and it hasn't changed much. I was careful to square the housing ends and they are fitted to new ferrules. So in my opinion, the Raleigh lever and the R559 just isn't a good match for the rear brake. I'll leave one on the front, but the rear will be getting an old steel caliper with Kool Stops.

Have not posted in awhile but I read the threads often to keep up with everything.

I also used the Tektro R559 calipers on my Sports but replaced the Raleigh levers with Shimano BL-R550 levers with cables. The brakes feel like a modern bike with good control. Before the purist scream I should mention that it was not my intention to restore the bike but to update it with more modern components. Only thing original to the bike is the frame, hubs and a few nuts.

BigChief 09-19-17 08:52 PM


Originally Posted by El Segundo (Post 19873954)
Have not posted in awhile but I read the threads often to keep up with everything.

I also used the Tektro R559 calipers on my Sports but replaced the Raleigh levers with Shimano BL-R550 levers with cables. The brakes feel like a modern bike with good control. Before the purist scream I should mention that it was not my intention to restore the bike but to update it with more modern components. Only thing original to the bike is the frame, hubs and a few nuts.

Yes, levers with more travel or a closer pivot point would solve the problem I think, but I'm going to try noglider's idea of cable stops. I have access to a lathe, so I'm going to make some steel stops and hold them in place on the top tube with Sturmey Archer shifter cable stop bands. I figure that eliminating 2 feet of cable housing should firm things up. We'll see. It will be an interesting experiment in any case.

Scipunk 09-19-17 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19873434)
I think it's original. The transfers are still on the down tube and chainguard. It's just a very rare model. Wish I knew the story behind it.

As do I sir, as do I. The guy I bought it from found it in the condition it's in, as he didn't know much about bikes he would not be any help. I will have to just gather facts and solve this Scooby Doo mystery lol.

Now do I keep her as is with just safety/ maintenance repairs done, try to restore her or I dunno. Would hate to ruin a rare model if that's he case.

I'll have better pics tomorrow after I wash her. For now here is my Flickr link:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/142806785@N03/

El Segundo 09-19-17 10:26 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19874009)
Yes, levers with more travel or a closer pivot point would solve the problem I think, but I'm going to try noglider's idea of cable stops. I have access to a lathe, so I'm going to make some steel stops and hold them in place on the top tube with Sturmey Archer shifter cable stop bands. I figure that eliminating 2 feet of cable housing should firm things up. We'll see. It will be an interesting experiment in any case.

That will work, I did the same thing on my old Superbe using Raleigh levers.

Looking forward to seeing the finished product.

3speedslow 09-20-17 08:20 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19873875)
Yes, you can see where I slid the tube up and down and gave it a few turns to make sure it was filled with JB. The JB Weld holds tight to the cable because of all the serrations. I put a slight crimp in the brass before the JB sets as an extra measure. The hardened JB would have to pass through the smaller space at the crimp to slip. I used to silver braze these, but it isn't necessary. The JB Weld is just as strong if not stronger since the cable doesn't need to be heated. The tubing works for the barrel adjuster as well as the trigger shifter, so there is no need for a pinch bolt adapter. I've been using this system for years now and it is reliable and easy to do. I just buy regular shifter inner cable and cut the end off with a cable cutter and either reuse the old casing or cut a piece of new to fit.

Sorry if this has been done but could you show a pic of the crimp tool and name its manufacture. Really would like to avoid the pinch bolt if I can, not saying there's anything wrong with them.

arex 09-20-17 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by erileykc (Post 19866395)
Guitar strings! That is some major resourcefulness. I'm going to have to file that tidbit away.

Hobby shops will also have a variety of sizes of piano wire that'd work, too. Tough stuff, perfect for springs, but a little hard to work with because of its toughness.

3speedslow 09-20-17 04:32 PM

I was doing some work on the scorcher today. When I looked at the 73' shifter I noticed that both the trigger and barrel ends are crimped brass tubes!

The cable I have in the Schwinn bag has lead ends.

nlerner 09-20-17 05:20 PM

Picked up this '62 Sports earlier today to rehab for a friend. Looks pretty darn original, including cables, housing, pedals, grips, (lousy) saddle. Tires are more recent replacements and seem to be in pretty good shape:

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4334/...381f9bd5_c.jpg

It wasn't far from home, so I hauled it back on my trailer (though it is in rideable condition):

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4375/...c7f78c6d_c.jpg

clubman 09-20-17 05:40 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 19876234)
Picked up this '62 Sports earlier

Nice one. I like Terry saddles when they've still got their form. Horsehair in them I think.

3speedslow 09-20-17 06:55 PM

That picture looks so right! Congrats on the score. I'm sure your friend will love it.

BigChief 09-20-17 07:27 PM

Amazing condition for a 55 year old bike. Really nice find. That's a S22L model. It came with lower cost fittings then the deluxe DL22L

nlerner 09-20-17 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19876469)
Amazing condition for a 55 year old bike. Really nice find. That's a S22L model. It came with lower cost fittings then the deluxe DL22L

Yup, standard Dunlop rims, in particular, though these should clean up nicely. I had a men's version of this bike some years back with a TCW hub and a front brake caliper. I could really lock up the rear wheel with that coaster.

El Segundo 09-20-17 10:27 PM

Posted this over in the Craigslist thread but maybe a member in the New Orleans area may be interested. The James Bicycle, unusual name but appears to be pretty common English 3 speed components and construction. Apparently "some assembly required".

http://neworleans.craigslist.org/bop...303774711.html

BigChief 09-21-17 04:01 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by 3speedslow (Post 19874697)
Sorry if this has been done but could you show a pic of the crimp tool and name its manufacture. Really would like to avoid the pinch bolt if I can, not saying there's anything wrong with them.

I just used the wire cutter portion of the needle nose pliers. You want to be careful with any crimp. Not even sure if it's necessary really. If the crimp makes the tube too fat, it will be a too tight fit in the shifter and get sticky in the barrel adjuster. That's where Sturmey Archer went wrong in the 60s when they started crimping tubes on the cables instead of casting the small ends on. You want the barrel adjuster to be able to spin freely. I've noticed the modern SA cables have gone back to the small cast on ends like the 50s cables had. Good idea.
Just got the cable made for my '73. Still have the brake cables to do.

Attachment 581638

rhm 09-21-17 05:52 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 19873465)
I'm making a shifter cable for my green Sports project bike using the 3/32" brass tubing. Thought I'd post a picture.
Here's the tools I use. I put the JB Weld on and gave it a couple of slight crimps.

Attachment 581398

Hey, if it works, it works, right? :thumb: but there's an easy way... and yes, we've been over this before....

The old crimpers made by HPK for Bell Systems are extremely useful and widely available. This one is $13 on ebay now:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KEkAAO...E6/s-l1600.jpg

Note that this is model B. There's also a model D which is useful for making Raleigh brake cables.

Anyway, the model B above is the perfect tool to crimp a bronze fishing line sleeve onto a Sturmey Archer gear cable. It works for both ends. If I recall correctly, you want fishing line sleeve size no 3. Crimp it a few times, this way and that way, and it is permanent.

drasp 09-21-17 06:07 AM

Finally joined the club! I've always been attracted to English 3-speeds, but never owned one. Finally went on a hunt & after scouring CL throughout the Southeast & searching eBay, forums, etc. I actually stumbled on this one at a local bike shop on consignment!

1951 Model 23 Sports Tourist w/ original recepit:

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...rning_ride.jpg

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...st_receipt.jpg

She hasn't been in service for a while, tires are badly dry rotted (not badly enough to keep me from riding to work yesterday) & she had an embarrassing Huffy tractor saddle fitted. Was repainted long long ago, but they masked most of the decals. I added the B67 (I know, 66 would've been more correct, but LBS had the 67 on the shelf) & have a pair of World Tours, some Kool Stop continentals & a few other little things on the way to help freshen her up!!! Scored some grips & cable housings on eBay, but will have to evaluate when they show up. I have a line on a clean seatpost & clamp bolt, those will be good. Need to find a frame pump & a clamp style lower peg - this one was broken off before I was born. Also have my eye out for a Lucas King of the Road bell - I *NEED* a good English bell for this bike!!! :D

Scipunk 09-21-17 06:10 AM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 19877022)
Hey, if it works, it works, right? :thumb: but there's an easy way... and yes, we've been over this before....

The old crimpers made by HPK for Bell Systems are extremely useful and widely available. This one is $13 on ebay now:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KEkAAO...E6/s-l1600.jpg

Note that this is model B. There's also a model D which is useful for making Raleigh brake cables.

Anyway, the model B above is the perfect tool to crimp a bronze fishing line sleeve onto a Sturmey Archer gear cable. It works for both ends. If I recall correctly, you want fishing line sleeve size no 3. Crimp it a few times, this way and that way, and it is permanent.

@rhm
Thanks for this, as a new owner of 2 Raleigh Sports (64 and 73) and a 69 Triumph, i am gonna be replacing quite a few cables...lol. I do a lot of car audio / electronics i wonder if i have a set of crimps that will work or since my grandfather worked for Bell South as a line technician, i wonder if he doesn't have a set of these already.

Btw do you know what size tubing the brakes use? Also do you just buy the cable and then twist it, or is are there premade cables you need to modify?

@BigChief where did you get that chain for your sport, i love gold accents!

Scipunk 09-21-17 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by drasp (Post 19877042)
Finally joined the club! I've always been attracted to English 3-speeds, but never owned one. Finally went on a hunt & after scouring CL throughout the Southeast & searching eBay, forums, etc. I actually stumbled on this one at a local bike shop on consignment!

1951 Model 23 Sports Tourist w/ original recepit:

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...rning_ride.jpg

http://delaraspelle.com/misc_pix/195...st_receipt.jpg

She hasn't been in service for a while, tires are badly dry rotted (not badly enough to keep me from riding to work yesterday) & she had an embarrassing Huffy tractor saddle fitted. Was repainted long long ago, but they masked most of the decals. I added the B67 (I know, 66 would've been more correct, but LBS had the 67 on the shelf) & have a pair of World Tours, some Kool Stop continentals & a few other little things on the way to help freshen her up!!! Scored some grips & cable housings on eBay, but will have to evaluate when they show up. I have a line on a clean seatpost & clamp bolt, those will be good. Need to find a frame pump & a clamp style lower peg - this one was broken off before I was born. Also have my eye out for a Lucas King of the Road bell - I *NEED* a good English bell for this bike!!! :D

Drool! That is a gorgeous bike!
I live in Western Mass but have been to Wellesley quite a few times. Small world.

rhm 09-21-17 07:30 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19877046)
... Btw do you know what size tubing the brakes use? Also do you just buy the cable and then twist it, or is are there premade cables you need to modify?

To make a Raleigh brake cable, use a regular barrel-end brake cable for the lever end, and crimp a spoke nipple onto the other end. In theory you're only supposed to crimp things like that once, but just to be sure I like to squeeze the crimper onto it several times, from different angles. Just be sure you get it in the right place, 'cuz once it's on there, it's staying.

Scipunk 09-21-17 07:54 AM

@rhm wow that's really simple, thanks for the info! Are spoke nipples all the same?

rhm 09-21-17 08:01 AM


Originally Posted by Scipunk (Post 19877212)
@rhm wow that's really simple, thanks for the info! Are spoke nipples all the same?

Well, no. But practically speaking, nearly all garden variety spoke nipples are chromed brass and are close enough to the same size to work for this purpose. If you see a junked bike wheel in the trash and clip a few spokes out of it and take the nipples, odds are close to 100% they'll work fine. Don't try to build a wheel with them, though.

But no, to properly answer your question, there are aluminum ones, and steel ones, and all kinds of funky ones that go on various non-traditional spokes. Avoid anything like that. The ordinary brass ones are perfect.


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