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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

BigChief 12-15-19 06:27 AM


Originally Posted by FBOATSB (Post 21245574)
Started the tear down on the '74 Sports today. It shifts through the gears on the stand even without any lube on the cable or shifter. The chain has many stiff links as well so it goes into a mineral spirits bath before I even bother to check for stretch.
The cotters pressed out without a hitch, cranks came off easily. I'll let some penetrating oil work on the cups before I attempt to remove them and see what shape the spindle is in. Feels dry as a bone.
The rear fender appears to have a broken tab or missing hardware, as there was a zip tie holding it to the chain stay bridge, looks like a P-clamp could fix that when I reassemble. One of the screws on the front fender was stuck tight so I put some penetrant on it and called it a night.
This bike has the original tires on it. Raleigh branded with a 74 in a circle molded in the sides. Judging by the tread wear I'd say it's got pretty low miles on it.

Glad to hear that cotter pressed out. I was expecting you to have to go to plan B on that one. The rear mudguard had a small clip that attached it to the bridge. The drive side bottom bracket cup is a bear to remove. It's easy to service without taking it off. I just reach in with a stick and rag soaked in solvent to clean it. On a 70s Sports, you will either find 11 1/4" loose bearings on each side or 7 bearings in plastic cages. Personally, I think it makes more sense to use the greater number of bearings since the BB get so much stress on it, so I use loose bearings. When putting it back together, the grease will hold the 11 bearings in place on the spindle as you thread it through the still in place drive side cup. If you want to remove the DS cup, remember that it is a left hand thread. Bikesmith sells a tool that makes the job much easier. edit: another trouble saving tip is to buy new cotters with the proper Raleigh taper cut from Bikesmith. http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/cotters.html

gster 12-15-19 10:14 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21245797)
Glad to hear that cotter pressed out. I was expecting you to have to go to plan B on that one. The rear mudguard had a small clip that attached it to the bridge. The drive side bottom bracket cup is a bear to remove. It's easy to service without taking it off. I just reach in with a stick and rag soaked in solvent to clean it. On a 70s Sports, you will either find 11 1/4" loose bearings on each side or 7 bearings in plastic cages. Personally, I think it makes more sense to use the greater number of bearings since the BB get so much stress on it, so I use loose bearings. When putting it back together, the grease will hold the 11 bearings in place on the spindle as you thread it through the still in place drive side cup. If you want to remove the DS cup, remember that it is a left hand thread. Bikesmith sells a tool that makes the job much easier. edit: another trouble saving tip is to buy new cotters with the proper Raleigh taper cut from Bikesmith. Bicycle Crank Cotters

I've never found caged bearings on a Raleigh bike, although I've only had mid 70's and earlier bikes.
I agree on loose, a bit harder to install but well worth the effort.

FBOATSB 12-15-19 10:45 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21245797)
Glad to hear that cotter pressed out. I was expecting you to have to go to plan B on that one. The rear mudguard had a small clip that attached it to the bridge. The drive side bottom bracket cup is a bear to remove. It's easy to service without taking it off. I just reach in with a stick and rag soaked in solvent to clean it. On a 70s Sports, you will either find 11 1/4" loose bearings on each side or 7 bearings in plastic cages. Personally, I think it makes more sense to use the greater number of bearings since the BB get so much stress on it, so I use loose bearings. When putting it back together, the grease will hold the 11 bearings in place on the spindle as you thread it through the still in place drive side cup. If you want to remove the DS cup, remember that it is a left hand thread. Bikesmith sells a tool that makes the job much easier. edit: another trouble saving tip is to buy new cotters with the proper Raleigh taper cut from Bikesmith. Bicycle Crank Cotters

+1 That massive press from Bikesmith shoved that cotter right out without hesitation. It came out the bottom straightened out. Here is the crank after cleaning.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0829a118f2.jpg
OK I see that fender clip now. Looks like it's designed for quick assembly but very easy to lose after the fact. Here's a pic of one on ebay.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a6234d77.jpeg
I think I'll use one these P clips readily available at the local hardware.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5df6b6aa7.jpeg
I have that cup tool as well. It fits on both sides on this particular bike. I'll take this fixed cup out so I can get some proper anti-seize in there since it is possible it has never been removed since leaving the factory and who knows what they used on it if anything. First I'll address the stuck screw on the fork eyelet and let the spindle soak. Normally when I get a new/old bike the first thing I do is totally strip the frame and put all the loose parts in a bucket to deal with later. I'm going to take my time with this one as it has to last all winter. Seems it's going to need little in the way of repair/replace.

BigChief 12-15-19 11:53 AM

Oh, that's great. I didn't know you already had all those good tools. Bikesmith has sure made my life with old 3 speeds better. I used to use an awkward clamp on bench vise and wrench socket to press cotters. I also spent hours filing modern cotters trying to get a good fit while getting a proper 180 degree spread of the crank arms at the same time. Even after all that work, I still ended up with cheap, crappy cotters. Now I'm on easy street with Mark's cotters. They press right in, come right out again when I want them to and the crank lines up perfectly every time.

BigChief 12-15-19 12:22 PM

That looks like a perfect clip for the mudguard. There's one other thing about these bottom brackets. At least it's something I've had to deal with mostly on later models and this can even happen on the adjustable cup. Most of the time, the cups will back out smoothly. The last half inch or so will back out by hand. But sometimes they are crabby and stiff backing out right to the very end. I clean up the threads with a brass brush and oil them, but still, they can be very stiff. Just too tight a fit. This makes it really hard to feel when the threads are properly engaging when you reassemble. The threads are fine and you sure don't want to cross thread them, but at some point you just have to trust to fate and start cranking the cup back in. I think it's a quality control issue. Raleigh seemed to have more of those as time went on.

markk900 12-15-19 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21245797)
When putting it back together, the grease will hold the 11 bearings in place on the spindle as you thread it through the still in place drive side cup

I usually fill the DS cup with grease and put the loose bearings in, then slide the spindle in place. You can get a lot of grease in from the no DS side and smoosh it around through the spindle hole.

gster 12-15-19 04:00 PM


Originally Posted by FBOATSB (Post 21246001)
+1 That massive press from Bikesmith shoved that cotter right out without hesitation. It came out the bottom straightened out. Here is the crank after cleaning.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0829a118f2.jpg
OK I see that fender clip now. Looks like it's designed for quick assembly but very easy to lose after the fact. Here's a pic of one on ebay.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4a6234d77.jpeg
I think I'll use one these P clips readily available at the local hardware.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5df6b6aa7.jpeg
I have that cup tool as well. It fits on both sides on this particular bike. I'll take this fixed cup out so I can get some proper anti-seize in there since it is possible it has never been removed since leaving the factory and who knows what they used on it if anything. First I'll address the stuck screw on the fork eyelet and let the spindle soak. Normally when I get a new/old bike the first thing I do is totally strip the frame and put all the loose parts in a bucket to deal with later. I'm going to take my time with this one as it has to last all winter. Seems it's going to need little in the way of repair/replace.

That lower fender bracket does tend to rattle around a bit....
It's annoying.

gster 12-15-19 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 21246178)
I usually fill the DS cup with grease and put the loose bearings in, then slide the spindle in place. You can get a lot of grease in from the no DS side and smoosh it around through the spindle hole.

Smooshing sounds like a highly technical and complicated procedure.
I would leave that to a trained "Smoosher".
Most start off as Apprentice Smooshers and after 4 years (or more) graduate to
Master Smooshers, with all rights and privileges bestowed in a somewhat secret ritual.
I've probably said too much as is.
In Germany they're called "Schmoozers" which is essentially the same position
but the uniform is more ornate.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d75d09956.png
"My name is Hans, may I schmooz your spindle?"

markk900 12-15-19 05:25 PM

Shhhhhh - don’t give away all zee secrets...

FBOATSB 12-15-19 05:56 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21246079)
That looks like a perfect clip for the mudguard. There's one other thing about these bottom brackets. At least it's something I've had to deal with mostly on later models and this can even happen on the adjustable cup. Most of the time, the cups will back out smoothly. The last half inch or so will back out by hand. But sometimes they are crabby and stiff backing out right to the very end. I clean up the threads with a brass brush and oil them, but still, they can be very stiff. Just too tight a fit. This makes it really hard to feel when the threads are properly engaging when you reassemble. The threads are fine and you sure don't want to cross thread them, but at some point you just have to trust to fate and start cranking the cup back in. I think it's a quality control issue. Raleigh seemed to have more of those as time went on.

I went ahead and pulled the cups and spindle today without too much trouble, totally dried out inside. While pulling out all the loose balls this little guy fell out with them. Alive and well.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5411b33699.jpg
I put it outside. It doesn't need to spend the winter in my basement.

gster 12-15-19 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by FBOATSB (Post 21246361)
I went ahead and pulled the cups and spindle today without too much trouble, totally dried out inside. While pulling out all the loose balls this little guy fell out with them. Alive and well.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5411b33699.jpg
I put it outside. It doesn't need to spend the winter in my basement.

Beetles and bikes.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c450b1745.png

clubman 12-15-19 07:27 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21246445)

Same 'Beetle', different bike. Raleigh?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c7662649a.png

bluesteak 12-16-19 08:35 AM

39 Elswick
 
I am working on a ?1939? Elswick 26 inch roadster. It has an undated ab hub with a rod operated drum brake. Anyone have any experience with drum brakes. Can you buy new shoes? How should they be adjusted?

gster 12-16-19 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21246456)
Same 'Beetle', different bike. Raleigh?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9c7662649a.png

“As a kid I had a dream – I wanted to own my own bicycle. When I got the bike I must have been the happiest boy in Liverpool, maybe the world. I lived for that bike. Most kids left their bike in the backyard at night. Not me. I insisted on taking mine indoors and the first night I even kept it in my bed.”
-John Lennon

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...feccdc8a36.jpg

gster 12-16-19 09:51 AM

John's first bike was a Raleigh Lenton Mark 11
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...707e1bb887.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...89c510fc24.jpg

bluesteak 12-16-19 05:02 PM

Beatles
 
Not sure I get the whole Beatles sequence, whose in the last two photos.

Awesome bike.

clubman 12-16-19 07:04 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21247765)
Not sure I get the whole Beatles sequence, whose in the last two photos.

Awesome bike.

Everything after the original Beetle picture was John.
You'll find we need no excuses to post photos that even smell of Brit bikes.
gster, great pics, is that his bike restored?


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21247003)


gster 12-16-19 07:58 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21247954)
Everything after the original Beetle picture was John.
You'll find we need no excuses to post photos that even smell of Brit bikes.
gster, great pics, is that his bike restored?

No...
Similar bike at his childhood home in Liverpool.
Part of the museum.

bluesteak 12-16-19 08:16 PM

I love the poster of John on the roadster.

gster 12-16-19 08:51 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21246926)
I am working on a ?1939? Elswick 26 inch roadster. It has an undated ab hub with a rod operated drum brake. Anyone have any experience with drum brakes. Can you buy new shoes? How should they be adjusted?

Post some photos.

BigChief 12-17-19 07:52 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21246296)
Smooshing sounds like a highly technical and complicated procedure.
I would leave that to a trained "Smoosher".
Most start off as Apprentice Smooshers and after 4 years (or more) graduate to
Master Smooshers, with all rights and privileges bestowed in a somewhat secret ritual.
I've probably said too much as is.
In Germany they're called "Schmoozers" which is essentially the same position
but the uniform is more ornate.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d75d09956.png
"My name is Hans, may I schmooz your spindle?"

Dang, I'd be embarrassed to be out in public with that fake mustache.

bluesteak 12-17-19 01:26 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21248099)
Post some photos.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e18ad15194.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...efb5de33df.jpg
I had it partly apart and resurfaced the cones, new oil and grease, tried the wheel and put it back on the bike

bluesteak 12-17-19 01:28 PM

Trued the wheel

robalong 12-17-19 03:51 PM

Hello!

Newbie just found this thread. Glorious! Not sure about the glory of the mustache, but never mind.

I have some posts up about Sturmey 3-speed hubs. I hope to become an expert by the time I've stripped and cleaned and inspected eight or nine of them.

When I was a kid, I hated bikes with Sturmey Archer gearing. The big boys in my area had bikes with Campagnolo deerayllieuers and levers, and I was corrupted. Now, I know better. I can hold Sturmey steel in my hand, and feel it's value.

Merry Christmas!

BigChief 12-18-19 06:55 AM


Originally Posted by robalong (Post 21249113)
Hello!

Newbie just found this thread. Glorious! Not sure about the glory of the mustache, but never mind.

I have some posts up about Sturmey 3-speed hubs. I hope to become an expert by the time I've stripped and cleaned and inspected eight or nine of them.

When I was a kid, I hated bikes with Sturmey Archer gearing. The big boys in my area had bikes with Campagnolo deerayllieuers and levers, and I was corrupted. Now, I know better. I can hold Sturmey steel in my hand, and feel it's value.

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas and welcome to the club. It's a fun hobby. I can understand the greater interest in the high performance vintage bikes, but people tend to lump these English roadsters in with the painful to ride kid bikes from the 1950s and they really don't belong there. They are well designed, practical and actually fun to ride.


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