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-   -   Interesting finds around the web (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=929230)

carleton 07-01-18 12:40 AM


Originally Posted by Minion1 (Post 20420683)
I had a chat to the Avanti rep about the bikes, they are 7k AUD, with a bit of a wait (sorry can't recall, I think it was a month or 2) and come in one size, 60cm tt. It looks to be filling the role that the Dolans were filling a few years ago, I really just hope Avanti keep their commitment up to the bikes and the designs.

Well, to put that into perspective, the LOOK 496 has a max size of 56cm and has at least a 6 month wait...even for those at the highest levels of the sport.

...and they cost at least $10,000 USD when last I checked. Probably more now.

EDIT:

Having owned one, I can say that it's a very capable bike. But, not worth $10,000. What's more is that LOOK customer service isn't great and parts of the track frame can be hard to obtain. I literally could not buy a seatpost that was in current production.

LOOKs are sexy as hell. But, if I were a coach, I'd steer my athletes away from them for practical reasons.

We saw what the Dutch sprinters did last season riding normal stems and 27.2mm seatposts. They dominated.

carleton 07-01-18 11:56 PM

https://i.imgur.com/8djZNxg.png
https://i.imgur.com/f9oXO4X.jpg

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bjmr4SmA...effreyhoogland

Looks like something designed to measure force at the pedals or shoes as well as *maybe* the handlebars. I've slowed the video down a lot and there seems to be some devices near the pedals and a cable running to the bars, but there is no head unit to be seen. My guess is that maybe the bars have strain gauges in them.

The cord that looks to be attached to the SRM head unit actually isn't. It's just taped to the seapost and happens to sit near the SRM head unit on the way to the handlebars.

Keyword tags by Hoogland:

#CollectingData #BigData #HugeData #Rugzakje #Bagpack #bagpacker #TrackCyclist #CyclingLife #Track #Start #Training #snelleplanga #Cycling
Whatever is going on can't be too secret if Hoogland is allowed to post to social media.

Poppit 07-03-18 06:12 AM

Was going to suggest Argon18 for the Aussies, wish I had now lol

carleton 07-03-18 06:29 AM


Originally Posted by Poppit (Post 20426044)
Was going to suggest Argon18 for the Aussies, wish I had now lol

Why is that?

Poppit 07-03-18 06:32 AM


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20426059)
Why is that?

....because that is what they’re going to be using

Poppit 07-03-18 06:35 AM


Morelock 07-03-18 06:48 AM

Woah. That new Argon is a sick bike.

jfiveeight 07-03-18 07:08 AM

Going by looks, it is really close to a BMC TR01 just with a regular stem set up.

topflightpro 07-03-18 01:00 PM

Looks like USAC has finally decided to focus on developing track racers: https://www.usacycling.org/article/u...-track-program

carleton 07-03-18 01:46 PM


Originally Posted by Poppit (Post 20426063)

....because that is what they’re going to be using

I have $1 that says that this will not end well.

jsk 07-03-18 09:25 PM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 20426876)
Looks like USAC has finally decided to focus on developing track racers: https://www.usacycling.org/article/u...-track-program

I could have sworn they announced something like that last winter.

carleton 07-03-18 10:34 PM


Originally Posted by jsk (Post 20427695)
I could have sworn they announced something like that last winter.

..And when they have Jamie Staff.

...and when they hired the new CEO that used to be a pro trackie.

...and when they offered that Track Talent ID Camp program (where they charged participants to be evaluated.).

They announce something like this every year or two.

Nothing will take hold until they pay a living wage to those on the national team. Adults can't train twice a day for cycling and maintain a full time job at the same time.

gycho77 07-04-18 02:02 AM


Poppit 07-04-18 01:54 PM

Just had our National Masters here in the uk, results are here, MNTC 18

topflightpro 07-05-18 06:05 AM

The article mentioned a private donation to support this effort, so maybe that donor will stay on top of things to make sure it is happening.

Also, they're targeting 15-21 year olds, which is where they need to be looking.

carleton 07-05-18 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 20429570)
The article mentioned a private donation to support this effort, so maybe that donor will stay on top of things to make sure it is happening.

I missed that part. Why would USA Cycling need outside money?


Originally Posted by topflightpro (Post 20429570)
Also, they're targeting 15-21 year olds, which is where they need to be looking.

Jamie Staff said that very thing several times back in 2010 when he was leading the USA Sprint program. I recall hearing it either on a YouTube interview or podcast.

Staff was witness to probably the best recruiting and nurturing programs around while with British Cycling. Joanna Rowsell and Laura Kenny, née Trott were around that age when they were discovered and put on bicycles. They weren't outstanding junior racers before that. They also turned Hoy and Pendleton from pretty good into some of best ever.

We need a long-term program. Not one that gets reinvigorated 2 years before the Olympics then dismantled the week after...which seems to be how we do it :foo:

queerpunk 07-05-18 04:47 PM

****'s expensive, man! USAC isn't government-funded like all the other national programs. It runs on sponsorship, race fees, and outside money.

There has been a long-term program in place for about four years, which is nice. There's a respectable Olympic program right now (which is to say, a team that is developed, coached, supported, and sent to world cups). What they're trying to do with this new youth structure is make sure that the Olympic program keeps getting fed. They're taking steps in the right direction, and I think it's worth it to let them and not gripe about where they're starting from.

carleton 07-05-18 07:36 PM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 20430875)
****'s expensive, man! USAC isn't government-funded like all the other national programs. It runs on sponsorship, race fees, and outside money.

There has been a long-term program in place for about four years, which is nice. There's a respectable Olympic program right now (which is to say, a team that is developed, coached, supported, and sent to world cups). What they're trying to do with this new youth structure is make sure that the Olympic program keeps getting fed. They're taking steps in the right direction, and I think it's worth it to let them and not gripe about where they're starting from.

That's fair...but as Shakespeare put it, "What's past is prologue."

Identifying athletes isn't that hard...even 15 year olds. They key is to not wait for them to discover the niche of track cycling within the niche of cycling. Go to Track and Field and it'll be like shooting fish in a barrel finding talent. The USA has probably the best track and field grass roots development programs in the world. Those kids have been training their legs and lungs since like age 8. The talented have already been identified.

For the athletes on the US National Team, working to pay bills while putting in the necessary training is the hard part. There are countless stories of US household-name trackies that were already world class that quit because they can't pay adult bills. Bobby Lea gave an interview about it.

I'll rejoice when I see the press release that states the actual salaries and contract lengths that will be paid to those on the team.

carleton 07-07-18 11:54 AM

2018 USA Masters Track Nationals starts today in Trexlertown, PA (TTown, 333M outdoor).

Results can be found here: https://legacy.usacycling.org/2018/m...rack-nationals

carleton 07-07-18 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20434175)
Technically it's juniors until the 10th, then masters after that until the 15th.

Ah! Thanks for the correction!

(You can tell that I'm not going :( )

Minion1 07-08-18 04:14 AM

Don't know if it's going to format properly, but Charlie Walsh (fmr Aus track coach) put a statement up on FB about using BT as a bike sponsor,

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00009424077292

I found it through Fyxo's FB, if the link doesn't work...

carleton 07-08-18 03:39 PM


Originally Posted by Minion1 (Post 20434720)
Don't know if it's going to format properly, but Charlie Walsh (fmr Aus track coach) put a statement up on FB about using BT as a bike sponsor,

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...00009424077292

I found it through Fyxo's FB, if the link doesn't work...

Wow.

As I stated a few days ago...


Originally Posted by carleton (Post 20426970)
I have $1 that says that this will not end well.





There are generally 4 ways to get equipment for your team:
  • Buy it outright like everyone else.
  • Get a "Pro Deal" sponsorship where you get gear at a reduced price (often at under wholesale prices).
  • Get the gear at no cost.
  • Get paid to use the gear.

If you are a good team, all of these benefit the company that makes the products via "transference". Consumers assume that, "If Athlete/Team uses this gear, it must be great!" or better, "This gear made Athlete/Team great!"

When you are good, you don't have to pay for gear.

When you are great, you get paid to use gear.


Here's my guess as to what's happening in Australia:
  • BT gave bikes, bars, etc... to the AUS track team for free in exchange for publicity (which works).
  • BT did not pay the AUS team to ride the bikes.
  • Simon Jones (Brit from Team Sky) came in and noted the relationship and thought, "Heck...We are one of the very best teams in the world. The team should be getting paid to ride these bikes the same way that [manufacturer A], [manufacturer B], [manufacturer C] paid Team Sky and other pro teams to use their gear.
  • BT said, "Nah. Margins on track frames are low as it is. We can't afford to." or "Nah. We like the deal the way it is now. Take it or leave it."
  • Jones changes the AUS Cycling Team's status to, "Single".
  • Argon18 says, "Sup, gurl?..."


Sound about right?

carleton 07-08-18 03:50 PM

A problem that I see (aside from all of the above) is that Argon18's aren't proven sprint bikes. The AUS team has more top Sprinters than they do Enduros.

It's more difficult to make a top-tier sprint bike than it is to make a top-tier TT bike. Basically, it as to be strong like a tank and nimble like a race car. Aerodynamics come third...because if it's not strong or nimble, top sprinters will not like it.

Argon18 has been making track bikes for a while. I don't think I've ever seen a National level sprinter ride one, much less International.

Further...Why the hell would you change horses 2 years out from the Olympics? Even if Argon18 promises to make a "Porsche 911 on two wheels" for the AUS Sprinters from scratch, how long will that take to perfect? EVERY MILLIMETER of that new bike will be compared to a BT.

700wheel 07-08-18 09:55 PM

Argon statement: https://www.argon18bike.com/en/news/...clingAustralia

carleton 07-08-18 11:30 PM


Originally Posted by spartanKid (Post 20436005)
Is this true? This seems like it might be your sprinter bias showing. Their men's and women's TP squads both won Commonwealth games, and the men set a WR in the process, their women got 2nd and 3rd in the IP, Cameron Meyer has won numerous world titles in bunch races, a bunch of their TP women also do well in bunch races, etc.

You are probably right about my bias towards sprinting. I pay more attention to that stuff.

Maybe the Sprinters get more hype and press. Not sure.


Originally Posted by 700wheel (Post 20436190)

From the website linked above:


What makes us different? We won’t stop until we’ve designed the fastest bike in the world. By combining all of our know-how and expertise in performance, aerodynamics and technology – by taking all we have learned and achieved with our road and triathlon bikes – we have what it takes to design track bikes like no other. And now working in tandem with Cycling Australia, our research and development team is right on track to go further than ever before.

“Our partnership with Cycling Australia for Tokyo 2020 will see us bringing to them Argon 18’s engineering manpower and cutting-edge technology expertise. Working in collaboration with Cycling Australia our goals are precise, and we target on nothing less but the fastest bike in the world. We’re already hard at work with their engineers and mechanics, we want to bring home Gold as much as they do.”

–Martin Faubert, Head of R&D, Argon 18
Soooooo...I read that as they don't have a bike yet :innocent:

queerpunk 07-09-18 06:22 AM

AUS nat'l track team: 7 sprinters, 11 enduros. https://www.australiancyclingteam.com/trackathletes.html

Argon 18 is making a sprint bike. It's 2 years out - it's not really a problem. There are horror stories of new bikes delivered on the eve of competition and things going wrong with them - there are also plenty of stories of new bikes delivered in the lead-up to the Olympics and there's no problem with them. Argon 18 has a track record of supporting national teams (Canada chose them too), collaborating with them on development (their partnership with Denmark led to the Electron Pro) and delivering a hot-off-the-molds world-class bike in the run-up to major events. Australia presumably knows how to write some requirements. I'm sure it's nothing to lose sleep over.

carleton 07-09-18 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by queerpunk (Post 20436465)
AUS nat'l track team: 7 sprinters, 11 enduros. https://www.australiancyclingteam.co...kathletes.html

Argon 18 is making a sprint bike. It's 2 years out - it's not really a problem. There are horror stories of new bikes delivered on the eve of competition and things going wrong with them - there are also plenty of stories of new bikes delivered in the lead-up to the Olympics and there's no problem with them. Argon 18 has a track record of supporting national teams (Canada chose them too), collaborating with them on development (their partnership with Denmark led to the Electron Pro) and delivering a hot-off-the-molds world-class bike in the run-up to major events. Australia presumably knows how to write some requirements. I'm sure it's nothing to lose sleep over.

I wouldn't say it's not a problem. It's a problem that is manageable. If and how it's managed is the million dollar question.

Compare the 1st generation Felt TK1 to the current TK FRD/TK1. 1st gen had fatal flaws under sprinters that were not issues for enduros. I've talked to top US sprinters that rode these.

Very few products are perfect in the first generation.

It takes a significant amount of time to iterate product designs. How many generations of this new bike can be designed, molds created, manufactured, delivered, tested...all from scratch?

The BT Edge and Stealth are very mature and proven.

Then there is the mental confidence that's required to pour 2,500W into a frame and travel 45mph while rubbing shoulders with another.

As I'm sure you know, Sprinters are abnormally large humans do things to these bikes that normal humans do not.

Hoy snapped off a pedal:
http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c716...isHoypedal.jpg

Vogel lost a saddle:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqBB9r0XEAAVfWl.jpg

Blatchford pulled out of single straps (I can't find the photo).
I have a photo of an Italian (?) guy who broke some bars during a standing start.
Ever notice that top sprinters rarely use Shimano Dura Ace chainrings? (Massie does, though)...it's because they bend them. Not a problem for enduros.


Basically, this bike would be for those on the far right end of the bell curve.

Morelock 07-09-18 09:51 AM

@carleton
Kind of funny the timing... I have been using (tririg) aero stems for a long time with no issues, Since taking up track and finding out I suck at standing starts, I've been working on it a bit.
So Saturday I'm starting my State TT, I pull the base bar up (not a lot thankfully) from my start :notamused: (which is odd, all the bolts were torqued to spec with carbon paste, and I'm not pulling *that* hard)
Needless to say, I went back to a normal stem on the track bike!

carleton 07-09-18 10:37 AM


Originally Posted by Morelock (Post 20436856)
@carleton
Kind of funny the timing... I have been using (tririg) aero stems for a long time with no issues, Since taking up track and finding out I suck at standing starts, I've been working on it a bit.
So Saturday I'm starting my State TT, I pull the base bar up (not a lot thankfully) from my start :notamused: (which is odd, all the bolts were torqued to spec with carbon paste, and I'm not pulling *that* hard)
Needless to say, I went back to a normal stem on the track bike!

Yup!

And the examples that I noted above were just those that I personally happened to notice via press reports online from international competition...which is probably far less than 1% of the time that they spend on a bike. So, they probably break components even more in training.

I watched Steve Hill (a top US Elite/Masters sprinter, 44 at the time) break a chain stay of a Dolan DF3 during a standing start in training one day at DLV. He started into a normal standing start effort then "CRACK".

The struggle is real.

carleton 07-09-18 10:47 AM

I'm talking about the bike that will be built for these guys:
https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.c...8_a11i4414.jpg

Not these guys:
http://cdn.media.cyclingnews.com/201...054940_670.jpg

All are champions. But they have different needs.


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