Bike Forums

Bike Forums (https://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (https://www.bikeforums.net/forumdisplay.php?f=181)
-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

rootboy 05-20-13 05:43 AM

Whao, Gaucho. That is ugly. And, it seems odd for your location but maybe not, .... that looks like mold or mildew where the base tape glue was! Ye gods.....

rootboy 05-20-13 05:46 AM


Originally Posted by Six jours (Post 15644054)
... - but the whine from them drives me bat**** in no time.

Awww, stop yer whinin'. ;) What I started doing, Six Jours, is place them so they just barely kiss the tire. Even just a hair above it.
Not quite so noisy.

SJX426 05-20-13 05:52 AM

+1 for spacing just above the tire. They last longer too. Bend them to the profile of the tire to get the radius to the sidewall and cover all the tread.

repechage 05-20-13 07:27 AM


Originally Posted by Chombi (Post 15643485)
I just found out that the squeaking sound that continues to happen on my Line Seeker's front wheel when I ride it was being caused by the Veloflex Criterium tub on it not totally adhered to my front wheel's Fiamme Ergal rim at one section. I don't know if it's the Vittoria glue, which I used in lieu of the usual Continental glue (I got the Vittoria glue as I just happen to stumble upon them on a trip to an LBS) that had caused the gluing job to fail at the front wheel, but I do remember using just as much glue as I used on all the other wheels I have installed in the last couple of years adn I remember making sure, as usual that I had good base tape and rim coverage with the glue, I have a feeling it's the different base tape construction that might be causing a need for more glue to get proper adhesion. The Veloflex seems to have a coating over the base tape that all my other tubs do not have. Either the caoting was casing a different texture than usual that might require more glue than usual or maybe I just have to clean it real good maybe iwth some alcohol, so the glue will stick to it better.... I'll find out when I re-glue the two tires sometime this week, If I find time..... This time I'll use Continental glue that I already have and I'm more used to....

It has been my experience that the modern adhesives (Vittoria, Continental Pasteli) behave much differently from the old Clement "red" and its period competition. Which is too bad. Much more work is required today, multiple layers on the rim and at least two on the tire if the tire has an uncoated base tape. No wonder why NOS tubes of Clement go for such silly amounts on ebay. I just did one, and darn if I won't have to peel it off and do it again, I get a "squishy" sound as the rear wheel rotates at one point. New tire mounted very true, and feels bonded butI don't like the noise.

rootboy 05-20-13 07:40 AM

Wish they still made the "Old Red" Gutta.

Chombi 05-20-13 10:48 AM


Originally Posted by repechage (Post 15644780)
It has been my experience that the modern adhesives (Vittoria, Continental Pasteli) behave much differently from the old Clement "red" and its period competition. Which is too bad. Much more work is required today, multiple layers on the rim and at least two on the tire if the tire has an uncoated base tape. No wonder why NOS tubes of Clement go for such silly amounts on ebay. I just did one, and darn if I won't have to peel it off and do it again, I get a "squishy" sound as the rear wheel rotates at one point. New tire mounted very true, and feels bonded butI don't like the noise.

Yah, I had two layers with some added touch ups on the base tape and it still did not work out 100%. Next time I'll do at least one more layer of glue on all my tires and rims, just to make sure..... Continental glue next time though.....

SJX426 05-20-13 10:52 AM

I do 2 layers on the base tape and one on the rim. Works fine for me (WFFM). I often leave a spont opposite the valve with less so I have a place to remove the tire. After a few runs the noise goes away. The last two rims I didn't put any glue on the base or the rim on a 3/4" or less section and have no noise at all. This is with the YJ tires.

gaucho777 05-20-13 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by repechage (Post 15644780)
It has been my experience that the modern adhesives (Vittoria, Continental Pasteli) behave much differently from the old Clement "red" and its period competition. Which is too bad. Much more work is required today, multiple layers on the rim and at least two on the tire if the tire has an uncoated base tape. No wonder why NOS tubes of Clement go for such silly amounts on ebay. I just did one, and darn if I won't have to peel it off and do it again, I get a "squishy" sound as the rear wheel rotates at one point. New tire mounted very true, and feels bonded butI don't like the noise.

+1. I've also experience the same noise. In my case, there was a very small gap near the valve due to poor tire construction (cheap Rally). I was able to pinpoint where the noise was coming from in the wheel's rotation. As the tire rotated, it pushed down the gap and led to a squishing sounds at each tire rotation. I find that modern glues do not dry as hard as the old Clement mastik, and I think this more than anything contributes to the likelihood of such noises.

gaucho777 05-20-13 11:09 AM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15644543)
Whao, Gaucho. That is ugly. And, it seems odd for your location but maybe not, .... that looks like mold or mildew where the base tape glue was! Ye gods.....

I'm pretty sure there is no mold on the tire. The cotton casing is just dark from the rubber, as well as some dirt from the road (since I was riding on the cotton casing). I think the glue holding the rubber to the casing had simply dried up and lost it's hold over the years.

Dawes-man 07-31-13 04:05 AM

At sometime in the early days of this thread I was persuaded to try a better tyre than the Rallys and Gommitalias that I was familiar with and ended up getting a pair of 25mm Veloflex Arenbergs. I was immediately smitten by their ease of fitting, the evenness of their construction, their nice grip on rough surfaces and their plusher ride. Since then I've changed almost all my machines to the same tyres and the ones I haven't are because I'm waiting for the old tyres to wear out. I chose the Arenbergs because they were available in 25mm.

However, the one drawback is that they need pumping up every day. This is due, I have since learnt, to them having latex inner tubes. I sometimes pump them up twice in a day if it's a long day.

Can anyone recommend a tyre that's as nice as the Arenberg, in a minimum of 25mm (up to 28mm would be fine) with a butyl inner tune which holds air longer? Preferably black but with tan walls would be okay.

Dawes-man 07-31-13 04:39 AM

Does anyone know if Vittoria Pavé tubular tyres have butyl inner tubes. Can't find the info anywhere. Their website doesn't say...

Road Fan 07-31-13 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15907476)
Does anyone know if Vittoria Pavé tubular tyres have butyl inner tubes. Can't find the info anywhere. Their website doesn't say...

I can't say, but maybe someone who uses them can say for how long they hold pressure? If when new they need to be pumped every day or two, they're latex. If it's considerably less frequent (a week to a few months), they're butyl.

I'm using the Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27 mm tubulars now, and if I ride every two days they need pumping that often to get up to 7.5 to 8 bars.

smontanaro 07-31-13 07:47 AM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15907443)
Can anyone recommend a tyre that's as nice as the Arenberg, in a minimum of 25mm (up to 28mm would be fine) with a butyl inner tune which holds air longer? Preferably black but with tan walls would be okay.

I can't compare them to your Arenbergs, but I like the Challenge Parigi-Roubaix tubulars (27mm, black/tan). Perhaps they have latex tubes. I don't mind pumping them up every couple days. I just put in some Stan's sealant last night in an attempt to make them bulletproof for around town riding. Haven't tried them with the juice yet, however.

Dawes-man 07-31-13 09:34 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 15907514)
I can't say, but maybe someone who uses them can say for how long they hold pressure? If when new they need to be pumped every day or two, they're latex. If it's considerably less frequent (a week to a few months), they're butyl.

I'm using the Challenge Parigi-Roubaix 27 mm tubulars now, and if I ride every two days they need pumping that often to get up to 7.5 to 8 bars.

The Parigi-Roubaix is another tyre I like the look of but which has latex inner tubes. I'm beginning to suspect that all the good tyres are the same and that pumping 'em up every day is just the price you pay...

Let's see if the Pave has butyl. I'm not very keen on the green stripe but if it is butyl, I'd like to try it.

gaucho777 07-31-13 10:50 AM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15907443)
Can anyone recommend a tyre that's as nice as the Arenberg, in a minimum of 25mm (up to 28mm would be fine) with a butyl inner tune which holds air longer? Preferably black but with tan walls would be okay.

Dawes-man, I sympathize with your quest for a wide, good-quality, butyl tubular:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...th-butyl-tubes

P.s. Note that some of the recommendations in the thread linked above were latex tubs. Tufu cross tires with a diamond tread may be your best option. I briefly used some 34mm Tufu's but I didn't have enough clearance with fenders so I took them off.. They worked fine--seated well and gave a soft ride--though maybe a little sluggish. I'm now using 32mm Dugast Pipistrello tubulars on the same bike--awesome, but very pricey, and latex tubes.

Grand Bois 07-31-13 04:14 PM

I've never had tires hold air like my Tufo Diamonds, either tubular or clincher. They're great on hard pack and grass because that's what they're designed for. On the road, they're not so great. They ride more like cheap clinchers than tubulars. One of these days I want to try Tufo's road tires.

I think I recall Robbietunes posting that he races on Tufos.

The Tufo tape is great for a dufus like me that can't glue on a tubular without getting glue all over the tire and myself.

I think I'd go for blackwalls in this case because Tufo's tanwalls inexplicably tend to turn black over time.

http://imageshack.us/a/img6/7611/7dv8.jpg

rootboy 07-31-13 04:18 PM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15908421)
Let's see if the Pave has butyl. I'm not very keen on the green stripe but if it is butyl, I'd like to try it.

Only asking because I'm not sure but, does if follow that with butyl tubes one would lose a certain amount of the "feel" of good tubulars?

Grand Bois 07-31-13 04:25 PM

That's a good question!

Dawes-man 07-31-13 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 15908736)
Dawes-man, I sympathize with your quest for a wide, good-quality, butyl tubular:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...th-butyl-tubes

P.s. Note that some of the recommendations in the thread linked above were latex tubs. Tufu cross tires with a diamond tread may be your best option.

Thanks for the link. It confirms what I'm quickly finding out, that good tyres have latex inner tubes.

Dawes-man 07-31-13 04:59 PM


Originally Posted by rootboy (Post 15910183)
Only asking because I'm not sure but, does if follow that with butyl tubes one would lose a certain amount of the "feel" of good tubulars?

I think it's more a case of those who put the effort into making nice tyres are only interested in using latex, the lightest option available, as that optimises rolling and is what people who spend that much expect.

Perhaps even if they made a lovely tyre with lots of feel but a butyl inner it might not sell in enough numbers to make it worthwhile. Hence butyl is consigned to cheaper tyres.

I'm sure there is a long list of things that make a tyre great. I very much doubt I could tell the difference between an Arenberg with a latex inner and the same tyre, built in exactly the same way, but with a butyl inner but I guess a lot of pros could.

gaucho777 07-31-13 06:32 PM

Just had a thought: www.tirealert.com. For ~$20 (discounts for multiple tires) they can replace the latex tubes with butyl tubes and add new base tape. I just spoke with someone over there who confirmed wide tubulars are not an issue (they do repair cross tire, too, after all; they can also repair with latex if the customer prefers). So, if you are willing to add $20 to the cost of a tire, the options are about as limited as latex tubulars. If I get a flat on my 32mm Dugasts, this is what I'm going to do. Disclaimer: I have no prior experience with tire alert, but it's something I've considered (actually, I probably heard about it 15 pages or so ago on this thread).

Road Fan 07-31-13 08:35 PM


Originally Posted by Dawes-man (Post 15910339)
I think it's more a case of those who put the effort into making nice tyres are only interested in using latex, the lightest option available, as that optimises rolling and is what people who spend that much expect.

Perhaps even if they made a lovely tyre with lots of feel but a butyl inner it might not sell in enough numbers to make it worthwhile. Hence butyl is consigned to cheaper tyres.

I'm sure there is a long list of things that make a tyre great. I very much doubt I could tell the difference between an Arenberg with a latex inner and the same tyre, built in exactly the same way, but with a butyl inner but I guess a lot of pros could.

I can't say I've experienced it, but latex tubes are said to give a more supple ride. I own and use some latex tires, but I'm not sure they're great just because of the latex.

rootboy 07-31-13 08:44 PM

I'm sure I could not tell the difference either. Not like the difference between good tubulars and my clinchers, say.
I've also heard, way back when, that thin latex adds to the supple feel of good tires, but I'll wager most of it is in the casing and sidewall construction. Like the difference between a really good silk tire and a so-so cotton tire.

Dawes-man 08-01-13 12:19 AM


Originally Posted by Road Fan (Post 15911143)
I can't say I've experienced it, but latex tubes are said to give a more supple ride. I own and use some latex tires, but I'm not sure they're great just because of the latex.

I didn't mean to suggest they were. Just the opposite, that latex is just one of the factors that makes a tyre good and that its qualities make it the material of choice for any manufacturer making top quality tyres.

Dawes-man 08-01-13 12:21 AM


Originally Posted by gaucho777 (Post 15910638)
Just had a thought: www.tirealert.com. For ~$20 (discounts for multiple tires) they can replace the latex tubes with butyl tubes and add new base tape. I just spoke with someone over there who confirmed wide tubulars are not an issue (they do repair cross tire, too, after all; they can also repair with latex if the customer prefers). So, if you are willing to add $20 to the cost of a tire, the options are about as limited as latex tubulars. If I get a flat on my 32mm Dugasts, this is what I'm going to do. Disclaimer: I have no prior experience with tire alert, but it's something I've considered (actually, I probably heard about it 15 pages or so ago on this thread).

It would be interesting to do that to see if you could tell the difference. Unfortunately, that's not a service which is available here in Japan. Looks like you're going to be our pioneer, gaucho777 :D


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:55 PM.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.