First race: Cat 4/5 or Masters 35+ 4/5
I've seen a lot of threads about the difference between Cat 4/5 and Masters but they are usually referring to Masters 1/2/3/4 vs. Cat4. A lot of the local races I've looked into have the option of either Cat 4/5 or Master 4/5, so as an over 35-yo Cat 5, I would have the option of entering either and wouldn't be racing against older Cat 1s and 2s. In most cases the races are back to back, so entering both isn't an option either. Any suggestions?
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Masters 4/5. I have seen some wicked wrecks because it seems like a lot of total newbies (like you?) feel most comfortable in that category. That said in a straight up 4/5 you are with a bunch of 20-somethings that live life like it's going to end tomorrow. No jobs or families to go back to after the race so they tend to race more aggressively - handling wise.
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That makes sense. I am a newbie to bike racing, but not racing, so I understand the importance of making it back to work on Monday morning in one piece!
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Also, the masters tend to be more experienced riders so they're a bit better bike handlers on average.
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Originally Posted by Right Said Fred
(Post 14171384)
In most cases the races are back to back, so entering both isn't an option either. Any suggestions?
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 14171844)
I used to do back to back all the time and still do on occasion.
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Originally Posted by Right Said Fred
(Post 14171384)
I've seen a lot of threads about the difference between Cat 4/5 and Masters but they are usually referring to Masters 1/2/3/4 vs. Cat4. A lot of the local races I've looked into have the option of either Cat 4/5 or Master 4/5, so as an over 35-yo Cat 5, I would have the option of entering either and wouldn't be racing against older Cat 1s and 2s. In most cases the races are back to back, so entering both isn't an option either. Any suggestions?
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Originally Posted by Right Said Fred
(Post 14171864)
In a crit, I could see doing that, but one of the races I looked at was a road race where Cat 4/5 starts at 9:00am and Masters 4/5 starts at 9:03. I assume that since in that case both groups are on the road at the same time, you have to choose one or the other.
I'd say the 4/5 race, especially since it's your first race. You'll be racing these guys 9 more times, so you might as well get to know them. |
OP, if I were fortunate to have the option, I'd race the Masters 4/5. Better bike handlers, less suicidal. Unfortunately, over here there are no categories other than age with regard to masters racing, so I either race against everyone in my age group, or everyone who is a Cat4, regardless of age.
I do the latter. The Masters races invariably find people like me lining up against elite cyclists and the odd ex-pro. Way out of my league. So I settle for the Cat4 and get beaten by the kids, but not so badly. |
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 14171844)
I used to do back to back all the time and still do on occasion.
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I would think the Master's 4/5 would have less people, and maybe be a safer race. Whereas Cat 4/5, you have a wide mix of people and skills often. Not that masters don't. But down in FL, you rarely see Master 4/5 races. It is either the standard categories, or it is a Masters 30,40,50 etc...field.
I've seen people smashing/piling up in every category, so I wouldn't necessarily say either is less dangerous/safer. But, the few people, usually means more safe, maybe the Master's fields would offer that up as a better first race? Or maybe this is all crap and do what you want? |
I've had a couple people tell me one must first be a Cat 4 before he's allowed into a Master's race. Is that really true?
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Originally Posted by MrTuner1970
(Post 14172166)
I've had a couple people tell me one must first be a Cat 4 before he's allowed into a Master's race. Is that really true?
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Originally Posted by sdgrannygear
(Post 14172195)
Probably not, depends on the masters race, but getting to a cat 4 upgrade is a good idea because masters races are often faster than 4 and if you don't have good bike handling skills, you are going to get yelled at.
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Pretty much all masters races here in Arizona require Cat4, but that of course isn't universally true. There may be some experienced C4 masters in your race, which could help smooth things out a bit. Small field size helps, but less so in a RR. Racing mostly Masters, the biggest issue I have with the 4-5 races when I do them is how 'surgy' they are in the corners. There is a lot more braking and acceleration in a 4-5 crit, which creates a different feel to the pack, and I frankly have difficulty getting in sync with the pack. I dropped off the back of one awhile back because I felt so out of sync with the kids that I was dangerous, and the pack was large and difficult to get around to the front.
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Personally, I would choose the M4/5 race. Even though they're new to racing, most of the riders in that race have probably done more riding (touring, commuting, MTB'ing, whatever) and are likely to be better bike handlers. Plus, as noted above, probably have jobs to get to on Monday.
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Originally Posted by MrTuner1970
(Post 14172166)
I've had a couple people tell me one must first be a Cat 4 before he's allowed into a Master's race. Is that really true?
Here in NorCal there's a lot of masters 4s and 5s. 35s, 45s, even 55s. Often the 45+ 4/5 field will be significantly larger than the 45+ 1/2/3 field. At Sea Otter they had full 45+ cat 5 and cat 4 fields. |
Originally Posted by zigmeister
(Post 14172059)
But down in FL, you rarely see Master 4/5 races. It is either the standard categories, or it is a Masters 30,40,50 etc...field.
And BTW the one time I did it years ago I got caught behind a crash just after the last turn before the finish. And doing it other years as a Masters 55+ or 50+ like this past one was much harder and much faster (these are not the same thing!), but no crashes. |
Do the Masters 4/5 and leave a spot open for a young'un to do the other 4/5s race. Unless you can do both, then do both. :D
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Originally Posted by Right Said Fred
(Post 14171864)
In a crit, I could see doing that, but one of the races I looked at was a road race where Cat 4/5 starts at 9:00am and Masters 4/5 starts at 9:03. I assume that since in that case both groups are on the road at the same time, you have to choose one or the other.
Simple. 35+ 4/5. Slightly less yelling. |
Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 14172579)
Enter both, start with the 9:03 group, bridge up, then win both.
Simple. |
Originally Posted by racer ex
(Post 14172579)
enter both, start with the 9:03 group, bridge up, then win both.
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Originally Posted by ericm979
(Post 14171667)
Also, the masters tend to be more experienced riders so they're a bit better bike handlers on average.
Anyway in my experience a masters 4/5's race is as bad if not worse than a regular 4/5's race, it's just that there are more Ti bike, the head tubes are taller, and the positions are more upright (due to bad backs). |
Originally Posted by mattm
(Post 14173032)
But if they have that much experience then they shouldn't be a 4 or a 5 anymore, I'd think.
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Originally Posted by Racer Ex
(Post 14173084)
Experience comes with experience. Talent comes with good genetics. I know a lot of masters who are very experienced, great bike handlers, smart racers, and couldn't pedal their way into a sub hour TT if you stuck a gun to their children's heads.
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