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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

smontanaro 10-01-12 07:18 AM

On a whim I picked up this NOS Suntour three-speed hub from eBay. ISTR someone saying they were more-or-less S-A clones (perhaps even made under license). Any recommendations about interesting uses for it? I have a couple Schwinns, at least one of which needs its hub cracked open and messed with (ummm... make that refurbished), so building a wheel to replace it is a (mundane) possibility. For now it will sit on the shelf awaiting inspiration.

rhm 10-01-12 08:54 AM

I've never actually seen a Suntour hub. If (as I have heard) they were made by Suntour under license, I would expect the quality to be outstanding. On the other hand, I have also heard that they were made for Suntour by Sturmey Archer at the Nottingham plant; if that's the case, there would be nothing special about them. So I don't know.

politicalgeek 10-02-12 04:29 AM

Waiting for the LBS to call...

Dropped my 60s AMF Hercules off Friday. New wheel set going on, 650b with a new SA dynamo/drum up front and a NOS SA AW in the rear. New fenders and tune up. It was entertaining giving the store clerk an education. I had to remind him that the bottom bracket and head set had ball bearings. He was asking the brand so he could ID in the shop computer...I told him it shouldn't be hard, it's easily the oldest bike they have in the shop.

PalmettoUpstate 10-07-12 04:51 PM


Originally Posted by criscoshoes (Post 11800828)
My 1962 Raleigh Gran Sport that I recently converted to 3 speed. Hi-ten frame, running a Sturmey Archer SRF3 and modern components.

Originally, a racing bike: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroral...ran-sport.html. Rides nicely as a around-the-town bicycle!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=179267http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=179268

Hi, I tried to PM you but it didn't seem to take.

If you're still out there on the forum I'd appreciate some info on the brakes that you have on this conversion.

Lemme know; thanks!

PalmettoUpstate 10-11-12 08:27 AM

What dat?

BROOKLYN CRUISER

http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/bik/3323000670.html

Amesja 10-11-12 09:34 AM

I just found a Suntour hub on a LTD-3 I was stripping out to rebuild. The shell is absolutely a thing of beauty with bright well-done chrome and bold, perfect engraving. There is no date stamp though so that is too bad -although as an aftermarket replacement it wouldn't help date the bike anyhow.

The hub has no oiler so I'm assuming it is a grease hub and not oil-bath. It seems to be working like new as I rode it last spring at a tweed ride without so much as a click out of place and it purred like a kitten. I didn't even realize it wasn't a SA unit until I wiped the gummy goo off of the shell to try and date it and found something other than what I was expecting. The SunTour name was covered up by a sticker that said TCD and that really confused me until someone on here pointed it out that it was a SunTour.

One of these days, when I have some time, I'll pull it apart and see what it looks like from the inside. But from the outside it is identical other than the engraving, better chrome, and the lack of the oiler. it fooled me Even the shape of the shell is an exact copy unlike many of the Styria hubs.

adventurepdx 10-11-12 12:39 PM


Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 14829916)

Interesting. Nice looking bikes. In the same vein, there is Bowery Lane Bicycles, also in NYC. But they actually build their bikes in New York, vs Brooklyn Cruiser who gets them from Taiwan or China.
http://bowerylanebicycles.com/bicycles.html

And this guy in Detroit says he's going to make bikes in the factory he just bought. They'll be three speeds that retail for around $500. The article is lacking in specifics, though, so it will be interesting to see how things develop.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1666227.html

(And I just noticed when I checked this post in preview, what came up as the ads on the sidebar? Brooklyn Cruiser. Ah, internet.)

SirMike1983 10-11-12 05:31 PM

I sort of like the Raleigh Denmark line up more than the Electras and other stuff I've seen here in the US. Pashley is nice too, but really costly.

http://www.raleighbikes.dk/site/tourist_index.html

http://www.raleighbikes.dk/image/950...uxe_brooks.jpg

http://www.raleighbikes.dk/site/tourist_tdl_herre.html

http://www.raleighbikes.dk/image/950...port_herre.jpg

PalmettoUpstate 10-14-12 02:34 PM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 14832062)
I sort of like the Raleigh Denmark line up more than the Electras and other stuff I've seen here in the US. Pashley is nice too, but really costly.

http://www.raleighbikes.dk/site/tourist_index.html



http://www.raleighbikes.dk/site/tourist_tdl_herre.html

Interesting. Are all these made in Denmark?

PalmettoUpstate 10-14-12 02:37 PM


Originally Posted by adventurepdx (Post 14830983)
Interesting. Nice looking bikes. In the same vein, there is Bowery Lane Bicycles, also in NYC. But they actually build their bikes in New York, vs Brooklyn Cruiser who gets them from Taiwan or China.
http://bowerylanebicycles.com/bicycles.html

And this guy in Detroit says he's going to make bikes in the factory he just bought. They'll be three speeds that retail for around $500. The article is lacking in specifics, though, so it will be interesting to see how things develop.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1666227.html

(And I just noticed when I checked this post in preview, what came up as the ads on the sidebar? Brooklyn Cruiser. Ah, internet.)

So it looks like Zak will be building a domestic USA, updated, version of the immortal English 3-speed.

Hope he does well with them!

PalmettoUpstate 10-14-12 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by rhm (Post 12710098)

I have now got my bike for my own copy of your "project", an 80's Bridgestone Kabuki Super Speed 12, and it looks a lot like your Lambert. This fine old butted frame steel bike will be made into a 3-speed too and I was wondering what your rear cog and chain ring sizes are and what recommendations you might have about same.

jrecoi 10-14-12 06:29 PM

Fitting an aftermarket Yellow Jersey chaincase on my Raleigh Sports, one of the Chinese ones, excellent paint, generally nice quality. These are not designed to fit onto a chaincase boss old Raleghs had. In order to mount it onto a Raleigh Sports with a chaincase boss, I had to modify some of the mounting hardware to fit the rear part, and then by carefully aligning the hole for the bottom bracket to be concentric with the bottom bracket, mark out where to drill the chaincase hole with a ball peen hammer. At the moment that is where I am, as I still have to get a 1/4" SAE tap for the pre-existing hole, and the bolt to fit.

Test-fitting, I'm having trouble keeping the pie plate that covers the chainring to stay on the chaincase. I'm wondering if applying some silicone or loctite on the plate would do the trick, or if there is some alternative way.

Fenway 10-14-12 07:27 PM

Lightly sanding the inside edge of the chaincase should allow the cover to pop in.

jamesj 10-17-12 10:24 AM

question for all the other 3 speed gurus!!

So every time I pull my rear wheel out and put it back in the bearings always seem to tighten up, I took it to the local bike shop and they got it adjusted for me. Then I had to install some fenders pulled it out and it tightened again. so I started to inspect the wheel and I noticed the drive side nut was lose, Im thinking this is what was making the bearings bind up which is not a good thing, im not able to turn the drive side cone with just my fingers so it it probally tight. is it supposed to be like that?

As for the non drive side it was nice and snug. What do I do to get this working correctly? I haven't done a bearing adjustment on a 3 speed hub before.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...r/rearhub1.jpg

non drive side.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...r/rearhub2.jpg

noglider 10-17-12 11:03 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 14830168)
I just found a Suntour hub on a LTD-3 I was stripping out to rebuild. The shell is absolutely a thing of beauty with bright well-done chrome and bold, perfect engraving. There is no date stamp though so that is too bad -although as an aftermarket replacement it wouldn't help date the bike anyhow.

The hub has no oiler so I'm assuming it is a grease hub and not oil-bath. It seems to be working like new as I rode it last spring at a tweed ride without so much as a click out of place and it purred like a kitten. I didn't even realize it wasn't a SA unit until I wiped the gummy goo off of the shell to try and date it and found something other than what I was expecting. The SunTour name was covered up by a sticker that said TCD and that really confused me until someone on here pointed it out that it was a SunTour.

One of these days, when I have some time, I'll pull it apart and see what it looks like from the inside. But from the outside it is identical other than the engraving, better chrome, and the lack of the oiler. it fooled me Even the shape of the shell is an exact copy unlike many of the Styria hubs.

The basic design will be the same as a SA AW. The dimensions also might be the same, making all the parts interchangeable with SA parts.

The lack of an oil port doesn't mean it's supposed to be lubricated with grease. You can drop oil inside the axle. In fact, I think you should.

gna 10-17-12 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 14850894)
question for all the other 3 speed gurus!!

So every time I pull my rear wheel out and put it back in the bearings always seem to tighten up, I took it to the local bike shop and they got it adjusted for me. Then I had to install some fenders pulled it out and it tightened again. so I started to inspect the wheel and I noticed the drive side nut was lose, Im thinking this is what was making the bearings bind up which is not a good thing, im not able to turn the drive side cone with just my fingers so it it probally tight. is it supposed to be like that?

As for the non drive side it was nice and snug. What do I do to get this working correctly? I haven't done a bearing adjustment on a 3 speed hub before.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...r/rearhub1.jpg

non drive side.
http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h1...r/rearhub2.jpg

Best way is to loosen the non drive side cone, then start on the drive side. It looks like there is an extra nut in between the cone and the lock washer. Remove it, then tighten down the cone until it is finger tight, then back it off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, so the flats on the cone line up with the lock washer. Hold the cone with a cone wrench and tighten down the nut.
Once that's set, you can tighten up the non-drive side cone. It should be snug, with a slight amount of play at the rim. You may need to experiment to get it just so.

See Sheldon Brown or Bikesmith for more info.

jamesj 10-17-12 05:12 PM

Ok I think I can do this It is basically like adjusting a hub on a regular wheel.

- loosen non drive side
- then adjust the drive side.
- then final adjustments on the non drive side.

is that correct?





Originally Posted by gna (Post 14851728)
Best way is to loosen the non drive side cone, then start on the drive side. It looks like there is an extra nut in between the cone and the lock washer. Remove it, then tighten down the cone until it is finger tight, then back it off 1/4 to 1/2 turn, so the flats on the cone line up with the lock washer. Hold the cone with a cone wrench and tighten down the nut.
Once that's set, you can tighten up the non-drive side cone. It should be snug, with a slight amount of play at the rim. You may need to experiment to get it just so.

See Sheldon Brown or Bikesmith for more info.


Amesja 10-17-12 05:21 PM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 14852414)
Ok I think I can do this It is basically like adjusting a hub on a regular wheel.

- loosen non drive side
- then adjust the drive side.
- then final adjustments on the non drive side.

is that correct?

Yup. Tighten drive side until it touches down firm, then back off between 1/4-1/2 turn, so that it indexes onto the bent retaining washer.

It's better to be a tad loose on the non-drive side than too tight. If it is too tight then the cranks will auto-spin when ghost-coasting. If it auto turns when coasting with your feet off the pedals then back it off a tiny bit.

jrecoi 10-17-12 06:42 PM

Woo, just finished mounting the chaincase onto the Raleigh. After fruitlessly looking for a 1/4" tap, I caved and bought an M6 tap with the corresponding bolt. The tapping went rather easy.

Everything else, not so much; between the various banging and bending to get the darn thing to fit without making noises, the chaincase now looks just as old and beaten up as the rest of the bike :p. I think I might still need a piece of gum in order to get the spacing right at the seatstay.

Still no solution for the pie plate, the crankarm now scrapes up against it when mounted, I might have to squeeze down the chaincase in order to get it to fit.

SirMike1983 10-17-12 08:01 PM

Learn something new every weekend, I suppose: I have a Raleigh here with the chaincase braze-on. It obviously is the 26 TPI proprietary set up, and I'm missing the bolt. I long went under the assumption I had to find a bolt. I tried M6 and it's very close, but not quite right. So to those who have re-tapped the front chaincase braze-on hole: did you just re-tap to M6, or did you have to re-drill the hole itself and then re-tap to something else? I could be tempted to re-tap if the operation is just to run an M6 tap down that hole. I am less inclined to have to re-drill something entirely and then retap to something bigger. Ideas?

jamesj 10-17-12 11:54 PM

so I tried adjusting the hub and for whatever reason my cone wrenches are getting stuck when I go to tighten the nut on the non drive side. they are too thick and cant sit properly. If you look at my photo the cones seem to be more inset. If that makes sense.

Sixty Fiver 10-18-12 12:14 AM


Originally Posted by jamesj (Post 14853513)
so I tried adjusting the hub and for whatever reason my cone wrenches are getting stuck when I go to tighten the nut on the non drive side. they are too thick and cant sit properly. If you look at my photo the cones seem to be more inset. If that makes sense.

Metric cone wrenches are almost the right fit... the SA cone spanner is imperial and is very fine and rather delicate in order to fit in what is a fairly tight spot... an SA hub is like a coaster hub in that the bearing adjustment should be done on the bike and not in a stand.

SirMike1983 10-18-12 07:59 AM


Originally Posted by SirMike1983 (Post 14852969)
Learn something new every weekend, I suppose: I have a Raleigh here with the chaincase braze-on. It obviously is the 26 TPI proprietary set up, and I'm missing the bolt. I long went under the assumption I had to find a bolt. I tried M6 and it's very close, but not quite right. So to those who have re-tapped the front chaincase braze-on hole: did you just re-tap to M6, or did you have to re-drill the hole itself and then re-tap to something else? I could be tempted to re-tap if the operation is just to run an M6 tap down that hole. I am less inclined to have to re-drill something entirely and then retap to something bigger. Ideas?

The alternative I guess being to drill up to 5/16 and do a 24 tpi tap. M8 is an alternative as well.

flammenwurfer 10-18-12 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14853542)
Metric cone wrenches are almost the right fit... the SA cone spanner is imperial and is very fine and rather delicate in order to fit in what is a fairly tight spot... an SA hub is like a coaster hub in that the bearing adjustment should be done on the bike and not in a stand.

Now you tell me! I've had the ghost pedaling for a while and haven't been able to get it adjusted. Gave it another shot last night while doing some other maintenance on my Sports. I got the wheel on twice just to find out that the pedals would still turn when spinning the back wheel. After the second time I said, screw it, maybe I can fit my cone wrench in there right now without taking the wheel off again. Much easier to get the adjustment right that way. Spin wheel...pedals turn. Back the cone off a smidge...pedals turn. Continue until pedals stop turning...tighten down the nut.

jamesj 10-18-12 09:48 AM

That makes sense, and thank you for the info! you are always filled with Sturmey Archer knowledge.

So now I need to find a SA cone spanner.




Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 14853542)
Metric cone wrenches are almost the right fit... the SA cone spanner is imperial and is very fine and rather delicate in order to fit in what is a fairly tight spot... an SA hub is like a coaster hub in that the bearing adjustment should be done on the bike and not in a stand.



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