V-Brake Recommendation and Quesition
 

If I want to "up grade" the brakes on that Specialized Expedition (26" tires). What would be some very good replacement V brakes?

I could order new, used on the "bay", or go to the bike coop this week and look in their V brake box ...

Curious what you folks would recommend ...

I think the existing levers will work with any V-brake because V-brakes are generally long pulls - do I have that correct?
Most any brake will also work fine with the 26" tires - my little experience with these are they are kind of a standard size so I don't have to worry about getting ones specifically for 26" wheels?

Thanks

Perhaps knowing the reasoning behind the "upgrade" can help a bit. Linear/v brakes are quite effective and efficient and can be easily adjusted, no matter the lineage (except those casted very cheaply or made from stamped steel). If for braking performance, try replacing just the pads for good ones (I prefer koolstops, either full salmon color or combo/ salmon-black compound), and replace cables for stainless, die-drawn ones from Jagwire, SRAM, Shimano or Clarks if in the EU.

Brakes are simple levers. There's no magic to their function. For the same dimensions (pivot boss to pad VS pivot to arm's end/cable connection) the brake will have the same leverage. Only if the brake arms are of a different length will any change of the "power" be had, all else being the same.

But all else rarely is the same so many will think the more expensive brake arms are the reason they now have better working brakes when it's more the new/more grippy pads and (usually also being serviced) cable's free movement and adjustment.

My suggestion (as many here will also say) is to change the pads for new and "nicer" ones (I like the Kool Stop line of pads), lube and/or replace the cable/casing making sure the casing loops are well handled and test ride before spending more money. Andy (who started using SM pads way back in the 1970s)

Direct pull brakes are very simple, (as long as they're not the absolute garbage plastic-over-steel variety, with plastic levers, and they can be adjusted properly) you'll not get a major improvement by changing the arms. They might look nicer and have better hardware, but you'll generally only get minor weight saving because they need to be stiff, and that requires a certain amount of metal. The only really standout V-brake was an old XTR model that had a parallelogram arrangement to keep the block faces flat with the rim as the arms moved over, but you're unlikely to find them, if you do they'll likely have worn pivots, and they weren't really all that anyway..
Proper fitting/maintenance, good friction material and good cables make the most difference.
There are mini-V brake arms generally intended for use on touring bikes with narrower tyres and road levers, apart from that they're mostly the same geometry with minor variations between models.

The only company to make V-Brakes would be Shimano and I think right now the top level of their V-Brakes would be Deore or possibly they still make the XTs for trekking or if lucky you might find an old XTR set for a lot of money. In terms of just linear pull brakes of which V-Brakes are a brand, I would go Paul if you are really looking to upgrade the brake arms themselves. However in the end probably what you need is better pads and shoes and cables and housing. For pads you want something replaceable from either one of the Stops: Kool or Swiss and you want good stiff shoes that take replaceable pads (and you can get those as a packaged from either one) then for cables you want something stainless steel and polished with no coatings ideally a Jagwire Pro or Elite and then for housing something nice and stiff and compressionless and you can get all of that with everything you need from Jagwire in their kits which they have in the Pro or Elite versions.

There are very few linear pull brakes I would replace and generally if the bike comes with ones I would replace I would just get a different bike as they aren't worth it. The arms make a small difference and certainly better ones will have an effect but truthfully the pads, shoes, cables and housing will make the biggest difference for the money.

..make sure you (re)grease the mounting posts. The (lack of grease on the) posts and tension adjustment are the two biggest issues I run into with V brakes.

Look for brand-name brakes (Avid, Shimano, Tektro, Origin 8, etc.) that don't have plastic return spring housings that eventually get brittle and break. Ask a shop mechanic to show you, if you don't understand.

First upgrade should be a good set of brake pads. Next, I'd look at compressionless brake housing. If your current set-up has a power modulator, swapping it for a standard v-brake noodle will help, or in many cases, you can take apart a noodle that has a modulator, remove the spring, reassemble, and then it works like a normal v-brake noodle.

Upgrading the brake levers could be worth looking into, especially if your bike came with a set of levers that have a rubberized section on the lever blade, those ones can feel spongy and crappy even when hooked up to a high-end brake with compressionless housing. Tektro RS360A would be my pick for a set of cheap levers.

First question is this a vintage 80's specialized expedition touring bike or a newer 2000's hybrid type specialized expedition?

1997-2003 era Shimano XT and XTR v-brakes with the parallelogram design. Aside from not requiring pad realignment as the pads wear thinner, these brakes are also shaped for slightly greater mechanical advantage compared to typical v-brakes. The side effect of this is that their pad movement is very small, so your rims will have to be perfectly true. They also have a reputation for squeaking.

I run these brakes on our two touring bikes. Quite hard to find nowadays and very expensive on eBay. I have an extra set stored away for my own future use.

I've used Alivio 4100 v brakes on several bikes, including my wife's Verve 3 that came with Tektro. With the Verve, braking improved greatly and it has better feel. Not sure if it is from the assemblies or different pads, but well worth the $35 total I had in them.

I will agree the XT/XTR parallelogram v brakes are amazing. I have a pair of the XTR on my 90's Specialized M2 and they definitely have stopping power. With a good set of pads they are unstoppable (bad pun alert)!

I purchased a Bike Friday last September.
Some of the stock components are (were) of very low quality (e.g., wheels), since replaced on my dime.
It came with Origin 8 linear brakes that retail for about $18, so not especially high end.
But even these modest brakes (IME) work very well.
I'm not sure how an upgrade would enhance my braking experience.
When the pads go I'll be replacing them with my (and others) favorite brake pads: Kool-Stop.

The most logical reason I can think of to change V-brake arms is if you're having trouble adjusting the pads on the ones you have now.

My thoughts also. As well, check the looseness of the arms, wiggling the top/cable end of them fore/aft, if a lot of slack, I'd replace arms to get new bushings in them.

In my time with v-brakes, I've encountered two different return springs; a) large rod springs that interface into projections partway up the arms, the latter of which the function was a mystery when encountered first on b) small coil springs integrated into the pivot housing. Can anyone attest if either is better or worse?

Also, I only road bike, so on most V-brakes, first thing I do after cleaning and regreasing the posts, is set them for the spring hole which has the least spring return force, most frames have three hole positions for each arm.

The parallelogram V-brakes already mentioned are Shimano XTR M950 and 951 and Avid Arch Rival. They are all a tad bulkier than regular V-brakes, so they may interfere with some other hardware on the bike. They must be hunted at eBay and may cost more than when they were new.

I was helping my kid with his homework learning the shapes - square, rhombus, right triangle, etc. When we got to the parallelogram, I proudly showed him the parallelograms shifters on his bike.

I think both return spring styles use coils down at the pivot end. I like the springs with the long extension "arm" that runs parallel with the brake arm (I guess your first example above) because it's usually pretty easy to unhook the spring and completely "unspring" the arm (can be helpful in certain situations). It may not be as easy to do this on models where the spring is entirely contained down by the pivot, but I don't think I've seen many models with that design, and I don't have any personal experience with them.

The plastic spring covers cracking (and resultant loss of centering consistency) was pretty much limited to One series of Shimano cantis first produced around the late 1980s. Shimano both made good on these by offering replacement springs and covers (which didn't crack) for free for many years after that series was discontinued. And, BTW, the cracking covers were not a safety thing as they only involved pad retraction and not pad clamping the rim.

While one will see these brakes on some old bikes they haven't been produced or sold as new for close to 30 years.

I'm waiting (April Fools) for someone to test out the suggestion pads are a big reason why old brakes don't work well by buying new brakes and cables but replace the new pads with the old dried out/worn ones and report back how well the "new brakes" work now:) Andy

The only cases where I'd install different brake arms are:

• The existing ones are corroded or blemished or the wrong color (if you're trying to color-match components)
• The existing ones are of the stamped steel variety and notably flexy or don't operate smoothly
• To install longer arms

There are several lengths of linear pull brake arms...as short as about 80mm and as long as about 120mm. Usually, the shorter arms are paired with short-pull levers and the longer arms are paired with long-pull levers, but this is not universal. And I've found that you can really tune the feel and power of the brakes by changing the length of your brake arms.

We have a 2015 Raleigh Alysa (similar to a Trek FX series) that came with Tektro BX-1 brake arms (these are the short arms usually intended for road or BMX applications) paired with typical long-pull brake levers. In this case, swapping those 85mm BX-1 brake arms out for 100mm Avid Single Digit 5 linear pull brake arms (using the same brake pads) made a nice difference in braking power, because the cable from the lever had more leverage over the brake pads. This is probably how the bike should have been setup originally. I suspect the long-pull levers with the short BX-1 arms was a move designed to reduce braking leverage for a bike presumably intended for a novice rider to prevent an over-the-bar accident...perhaps similar in concept to using a brake power modulator (which this bike did not, and does not, have).

To continue the post above, anecdotally, I've used 100mm brake arms with short-pull levers before on my 1997 Trek 750. This is the combination that will give you the most mechanical advantage, at the expense of a very small window for brake adjustment tolerance (rims have to be very straight, etc.). It did work pretty well, and it would absolutely stop On. A. Dime. Like, right now. I did eventually change the brake configuration on it to something else, but that combination does work sometimes. That Raleigh bike I mentioned above was the opposite of that -- long-pull levers paired with short brake arms. That combination gives the rider the least amount of mechanical advantage.

Well, the stated problem was retraction and, in my experience, the leading cause of failure to retract was busted plastic housings.

I can attest to this. I have 100mm v-brakes with long pull levers, but an interrupter (mid-cable) lever out on the front of the aero bars, and interrupters only come short pull as they are intended to fit on the top section of road bikes. I need to have the wheels in top true (always, and my initial retrue job, very close, more equal tensions, hasn't moved in years of use) and the brakes well adjusted, because otherwise, the lever can bottom out. But otherwise, great, I wish my main levers were that lower force, and I use the interrupter lever to hold in place on grades at a stoplight, so easy.

My rim sides are polished smooth, so with standard pads, grip is not what it should be. Softer pads might help, but the rim sides are getting pretty concaved after ten years in a hilly city, I may need to trade out the wheels.

Some direct-pull brakes contain bushings that serve as pivots for the brake arms. The bushings are tightly bound by the arm mounting bolts and do not rotate, so lubrication is not necessary. I just installed a set of Shimano Deore brakes that are made this way. (I still grease the pivot posts to prevent rust.)

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c366b4a68f.jpg
These brake arms don't rotate directly on the frame's pivot posts.

Here are the Alivio brakes I referenced earlier. I also used Alivio levers when I installed them on a Trek 730 Multitrack. They stop great and were super easy to set up. I consider the Deore version but could not justify the price difference.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...71448b411.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8b18364ef.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0f5fd16af.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e16e22ecb.jpeg

Uh, are you sure about that? You may be right. But my recall on my brakes was that the sintered (and possibly PTFE impregnated) bronze bushing, is a press-fit into the arms, and is a close-slip-fit and pivots on the steel brake post. As I result, I grease well there. If the arm itself pivoted around the bushing, you would have a sliding interface between bronze and aluminum, and that is usually not the case, as aluminum is too soft. I thought the big bolts into the steel brake posts, the head bottoms on the outer rim of the post, and the bushing is a tad shorter than that, so is not clamped. But my memory could be wrong, or my cheap Promax and Tektro V-brakes are different than your Deores.