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-   -   Totally Tubular (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=154679)

Aardwolf 08-30-23 04:39 AM


Originally Posted by frail1 (Post 22999477)
Hello, just looking to get a few tubular tires(700x25-28)with removable valve cores. Wanting the longest lasting for the buck, don’t mind paying more if the quality is there. Not racing, just for long solo rides. Was disappointed with the last yellow tubulars, had bumps and twists, presently using gatorskins, and they work.

Any recommendations? Thanks very much!

I just got a 2nd set of Vittoria Rubino Pro Graphene 2.0 28mm.
Similar to the Corsa I think, except butyl tubes and slightly cheaper.
I had no punctures in about 1500 miles on the first set with Orange Seal in them.
They're still going strong but I need tyes for another bike.

There's a rumour they are being discontinued.

obuckler 08-31-23 02:38 PM

Tubular Tube Repair
 
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...091ac1e1c.jpeg

Just sharing my current tubular repair for your amusement. If your handy this is really easy.

In this case I had to cut and pull the whole tube out completely to find not one but two pinholes that i could never locate under an air leak. I only found them looking under a glass.

This setup shows the tube ready to splice back together. Will overlap the two ends one inch—shove my conti rim cement in 3/4 of an inch with a toothpick—and press all around using wax paper to protect from any mess.

Have done this several times. Once to install a brand new tube in an otherwise good tire.

There is another tire with a simple flat to repair next caused by an under 1mm piece of glass.

I don’t usually repair anything until i have a couple to work on.

The tires are Veloflex Vlaanderen.

Yes, I know there are people you can pay to do this. I find it therapeutically fun!

Classtime 08-31-23 04:24 PM

Holy Cow! How do you get the tube back in?

spclark 08-31-23 04:35 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 23001541)
Holy Cow! How do you get the tube back in?

Vewwwyyy Carefuwwwyyyy

obuckler 08-31-23 05:09 PM


Originally Posted by Classtime (Post 23001541)
Holy Cow! How do you get the tube back in?

Pull it with a string !

frail1 09-02-23 05:38 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 22999527)
Excel Sports still has some Vittoria tubulars on sale:

https://www.excelsports.com/category...sort=&instock=

I have some Corsa Control Graphene 28s at bat on one bike with some 30s in the on deck circle.

Thanks very much for all the replies. I’m sorry but cannot seem to find out anywhere if these vittorias have a removable valve core? Great deal and will buy if they do, are you, or anyone else aware of this specific feature in these tires? Cheers.

spclark 09-02-23 05:54 AM

Latex or Butyl?
 

Originally Posted by frail1 (Post 23002897)
Thanks very much for all the replies. I’m sorry but cannot seem to find out anywhere if these vittorias have a removable valve core? Great deal and will buy if they do, are you, or anyone else aware of this specific feature in these tires? Cheers.

All three of those tires you linked to have a 'features' description at the bottom of the page, each refers to 'latex or butyl tubes' so are these tires clinchers or true sew-ups w/tubes inside? Do you get to specify what kind of tube you want when you order if sew-ups?

I'd have to believe a company selling tires would be careful about ambiguities in their ad copy. Important to describe a product carefully otherwise have to suffer slings & arrows from disappointed customers.

I'll post what I hear back from ExcelSports about these questions you and I have; seems they're closed until next Tuesday so we'll have to be patient.

smontanaro 09-02-23 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by frail1 (Post 23002897)
I’m sorry but cannot seem to find out anywhere if these vittorias have a removable valve core?

Yes they do. FWIW, I've never seen a high quality tubular tire without a removable valve core.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e63f696893.jpg

spclark 09-02-23 06:14 AM


Originally Posted by smontanaro (Post 23002912)
FWIW, I've never seen a high quality tubular tire without a removable valve core.

I have, and I still have one mounted on my rear wheel.

But the last tires I bought (before the two Challenge Strada 27's a couple weeks back) happened over twelve or more years ago so you're likely correct.
I'd certainly think really hard and maybe more than twice before buying tubies lacking removable valve cores at this point.

Fredo76 09-02-23 08:50 AM

The 30mm and the 28mm Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0 tires that I bought from Excel Sports for $48 each both have removable valve cores. I can ride two days with one pump-up, so I suspect the tubes are the thicker latex, but have not seen one, yet.

I have two wheelsets with 30mm on the fronts and 28mm on the rears, and got another pair of the Corsa Controls hanging in reserve. Thanks for the heads-up posts! I hope these are not discontinued. :(

1989Pre 09-03-23 04:36 PM

I got sixty miles in on the Grubb today, and it was the first time I used 140psi. I was using 130psi before that, but this really seemed to have a positive effect, both in speed and in handling.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...40ae3a60ba.jpg
25mm Bontrager R4 320 on Nisi Corsa Stretto 32H and Bayliss-Wiley steel hub
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9f06404668.jpg
25mm Bontrager R4 320 on Nisi Corsa Stretto 36H and Atom aluminum hub
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d894689def.jpg
Mid-ship

MooneyBloke 09-03-23 09:09 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23004429)
I got sixty miles in on the Grubb today, and it was the first time I used 140psi. I was using 130psi before that, but this really seemed to have a positive effect, both in speed and in handling. Maybe I'm imagining things.

Why are you running that high a pressure? Road buzz is not speed.

Please see: https://web.archive.org/web/20200813...-and-impedance

79pmooney 09-03-23 09:42 PM

Fun on sewups! 50 miles today on my avatar fix gear. (Basically a full 1989 race bike only for a fictional world where gears and freewheels never happened.) Rode it because it is fenderable, doesn't care about water and rain was forecast as likely. I've only built one set of wheels for it so far since I went tubbies for all my good bikes last summer. So I pulled it off the rack and - Ambrosia deep V rear, brand new, GEL330 front with Veloflex 25c tires. Near race! Fun!

The ride to get a few more miles into these legs before Cycle Oregon starting next Sunday which I'll do on my GP4 rimmed and 25c front, 23c rear Corsa G+ rubbered Pro Miyata. (Doing all my riding this week on those two bikes to stay used to race ride and steering to be my best, smoothest and as confident as possible next week.) These bikes completely show off the ride and joy of narrow tubulars! I rode the Miyata over a gravel park trail Friday not thinking about what my rear tire was until I was on it. NBD. At all.

(And completely off the tubular topic. Brought the Miyata into Ti Cycles last week to have the HT and fork crown tidied up; figuring the bike's time in the rain might be the source of the head set issues I'd been having. Well, I paid Dave Levy $100 to dress all the interfaces and he put the fork in the jigs and tweaked the blades to perfect and aligned the dropouts. Headset (Tange Levine) almost fell into place (well I had to push but it wanted to cooperate), adjusted up to perfect and now rides no-hands perfect, steers seamlessly and is a pure joy. Money very well spent! Fun to watch a master.)

Edit: pressures - Miyata: 98 psi in the 25c front, 110 in the 23c rear. The 25c Veloflexed fix gear got 98 in front and hand pumped to a little more in back. (My floor pump doesn't see enough stem below the deep V rim to do anything but deflate the tire.)

L134 09-04-23 11:30 AM

Is anyone else becoming alarmed that sources for tubulars seems to be drying up or am I just looking in the wrong places? Merlin is down to two tires?! Excel almost seems like they are just blowing out existing supplies. Going directly to Veloflex's site shows fewer choices than used to be. Merlin has been my favorite source - good prices, fast shipping, good selection - but looks like they are getting out. Where should I be looking?

Het Volk 09-04-23 11:35 AM


Originally Posted by L134 (Post 23005174)
Is anyone else becoming alarmed that sources for tubulars seems to be drying up or am I just looking in the wrong places? Merlin is down to two tires?! Excel almost seems like they are just blowing out existing supplies. Going directly to Veloflex's site shows fewer choices than used to be. Merlin has been my favorite source - good prices, fast shipping, good selection - but looks like they are getting out. Where should I be looking?

I would not be shocked if in 5 years basically tubular tires are down to only a few brands and of those brands, fewer options

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 12:44 PM


Originally Posted by Het Volk (Post 23005179)
I would not be shocked if in 5 years basically tubular tires are down to only a few brands and of those brands, fewer options

And that would be too bad. I am getting the strong feeling that it's getting to be just about squeezing as much money out of a gullible public as possible. Keeping existing bikes on the road in good condition should have at least some priority.

L134 09-04-23 01:47 PM


Originally Posted by Het Volk (Post 23005179)
I would not be shocked if in 5 years basically tubular tires are down to only a few brands and of those brands, fewer options

Right, only it is starting to feel like months to go, not years!

1989Pre 09-04-23 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 23004715)
Why are you running that high a pressure? Road buzz is not speed.

Please see: https://web.archive.org/web/20200813...-and-impedance

I think I answered that question in my post. These tires max out at 190psi. "Road buzz"? Did you make that up, or was it someone else?

https://www.thebikesmiths.com/blogs/...er%20for%20you.

Road Bike: Most tube-type clincher tires range from 85-110 for road bikes, while tubular tires can put up to around 150-200 PSI. If you are riding on smooth pavement, the higher end of pressure will be better for you. The smooth surface provides less rolling resistance and will thus equate to a faster speed. If it’s wet or even if cold outside, many riders like a lower pressure as the tires are more grippy. A lot of riders say that lower pressure on wet roads feels as if the roads are not wet at all, and this can also prevent hydroplaning, which is when you slide uncontrollably on the wet surface of a road. Most pro racers will use a tubular tire as it is lighter and will run higher pressure than tube-type tires, but tubular tires do lose air much faster than a regular tube type clincher tire so you will need to inflate a tubular more often. I pump my tires up to around 110-115. I don't like going much higher because then my ride becomes too bouncy and is not comfortable. Check out this
that shows where pro racers like their tires at.

Dope.

JohnDThompson 09-04-23 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by Het Volk (Post 23005179)
I would not be shocked if in 5 years basically tubular tires are down to only a few brands and of those brands, fewer options

Sadly, I suspect you're right. The same way that there are very few decent quality 27" clinchers in today's market.

smontanaro 09-04-23 03:56 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23005407)
I think I answered that question in my post. These tires max out at 190psi....

Road Bike: Most tube-type clincher tires range from 85-110 for road bikes, while tubular tires can put up to around 150-200 PSI. If you are riding on smooth pavement, the higher end of pressure will be better for you. The smooth surface provides less rolling resistance and will thus equate to a faster speed.
​​​

I don't think I've ridden anything like 110psi for 30+ years. These days, tire pressures for me are well under 100psi.
​​​​
Lawyers get involved in things like stated min/max pressures. I believe there is a nice dollop of "covering ones ass" in published tire pressure numbers. I ride 28mm Vittoria tubulars on my Serotta. Just had it out today. I ran 65/70psi f/r. The ride was sublime. (For reference, I currently weigh ~185lbs.) I was on asphalt, but modern street infrastructure being what it is, I was also met with potholes, patches, expansion joints and other irregularities. The tires soaked everything up.

On my Monti Special, the other bike in heavy rotation at this instant, I have 700Cx32mm Compass Stampede Pass tires mounted. I ride similar pressures on it. Again, it rides wonderfully.

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should. Unless you're riding 20mm wide tires, I'd suggest letting some air out and see how things feel.

1989Pre 09-04-23 04:32 PM

Smontanaro: Thanks for that perspective. I am new to tubulars (just this year), so am still learning. The roads around here are very smooth, well-maintained and very clean. My town is 20,000 people and it is the largest town in Maine, so basically, I am usually riding in places that are pristine and have a minimum of motor traffic. One interesting (and humorous) story: I was pumping my tubulars up to 130 with my floor pump and it literally blew a gasket...across the room. So, I had to use my frame pump, and I got about fifty pounds into it and went riding...and it seemed perfectly fine! Only fifty pounds! Oh, these tires are 700x25. Will lowering my pressure to 110psi (where I run my clinchers at) prevent punctures? After yesterday, I'll need a good reason to back off of 140psi.

79pmooney 09-04-23 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23005407)
I think I answered that question in my post. These tires max out at 190psi. "Road buzz"? Did you make that up, or was it someone else?

https://www.thebikesmiths.com/blogs/...er%20for%20you.

Road Bike: Most tube-type clincher tires range from 85-110 for road bikes, while tubular tires can put up to around 150-200 PSI. If you are riding on smooth pavement, the higher end of pressure will be better for you. The smooth surface provides less rolling resistance and will thus equate to a faster speed. If it’s wet or even if cold outside, many riders like a lower pressure as the tires are more grippy. A lot of riders say that lower pressure on wet roads feels as if the roads are not wet at all, and this can also prevent hydroplaning, which is when you slide uncontrollably on the wet surface of a road. Most pro racers will use a tubular tire as it is lighter and will run higher pressure than tube-type tires, but tubular tires do lose air much faster than a regular tube type clincher tire so you will need to inflate a tubular more often. I pump my tires up to around 110-115. I don't like going much higher because then my ride becomes too bouncy and is not comfortable. Check out this video that shows where pro racers like their tires at.

Dope.

I only changed the bolding in your quoted text. I've got 25 years and a lot of miles on tubulars and never, ever run more than 120 psi and that was just once. Labels have said my tires were good to 175. That's saying the cord is good and strong and the stitching quality is excellent. I like. But I see no reason at all to shake my fillings out at those pressures.

The term "road buzz" has been around a long time. It wasn't considered a big deal back then but you did drop your pressure a little if you knew that's what the pavement was going to be.

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 05:36 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23005407)
I pump my tires up to around 110-115. I don't like going much higher because then my ride becomes too bouncy and is not comfortable.

Then why did you talk about inflating to 130 and 140 psi as though this was desirable? I run 100 in the front and 110 in the rear with 23mm tires, and I've given some thought to dropping ten psi in each.

By road buzz I mean the sensation you get running tires at very high pressures over garbage surfaces like the all-too-common-in-my-neck-of-the-woods chip-seal paving.

There's a section of one of my usual loops with about 5km of chip seal with smooth pavement on either side. It's getting a bit more packed in now, but with my usual inflation, if I kept my effort the same, there was about 1.5kph drop over the chip seal. Maybe a lower inflation would have helped.

The only place for very high pressures is a board track, and few of us are riding on those.

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 05:48 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 23005537)
never, ever run more than 120 psi and that was just once.

An outing on track?

79pmooney 09-04-23 05:51 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 23005560)
An outing on track?

One of my early road races on my brand new and best ever tires. And like I said, I never went that high again.

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 05:58 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 23005565)
One of my early road races on my brand new and best ever tires. And like I said, I never went that high again.

Even crit corners with tires jacked that hard seem sketchy. /me hates crashteriums.

1989Pre 09-04-23 06:26 PM


Originally Posted by 79pmooney (Post 23005537)
I only changed the bolding in your quoted text. I've got 25 years and a lot of miles on tubulars and never, ever run more than 120 psi and that was just once. Labels have said my tires were good to 175. That's saying the cord is good and strong and the stitching quality is excellent. I like. But I see no reason at all to shake my fillings out at those pressures.

The term "road buzz" has been around a long time. It wasn't considered a big deal back then but you did drop your pressure a little if you knew that's what the pavement was going to be.

I am not telling anyone what to use for pressure. I do not know any of the pertinent facts about you, your environment or your riding that I would need to make accurate recommendations. I am glad that you have found a psi that works consistently-well for you. I do not experience "road buzz". I do not experience dental problems from riding. These hypotheses are just assumptions and hyperbole, Not grounded in fact or informed by personal details.
Does anyone else want to take a shot at why I should not use 140psi?
I'm willing to listen, but I do not get whatever vibration you may be getting. Ok, that makes a little sense to release some air when I know rough or wet or frozen roads are ahead.

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 06:37 PM


Originally Posted by 1989Pre (Post 23005600)
Does anyone else want to take a shot at why I should not use 140psi?
I'm willing to listen, but I do not get whatever vibration you may be getting. Ok, that makes a little sense to release some air when I know rough or wet or frozen roads are ahead.

In that link I sent you (I suspect Silca knows a thing about race tires and pressures), there are some graphs plotting power against tire pressure for various road surfaces. The short of it is that on realistic road surfaces, beyond 100psi, you are wasting watts on less than perfect pavement. The illusion of being faster is precisely that, an illusion.

Pay special attention to the deviation between real world measurement and theoretical results here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200818...12513883533956

1989Pre 09-04-23 06:53 PM


Originally Posted by MooneyBloke (Post 23005616)
In that link I sent you (I suspect Silca knows a thing about race tires and pressures), there are some graphs plotting power against tire pressure for various road surfaces. The short of it is that on realistic road surfaces, beyond 100psi, you are wasting watts on less than perfect pavement. The illusion of being faster is precisely that, an illusion.

Pay special attention to the deviation between real world measurement and theoretical results here: https://web.archive.org/web/20200818...12513883533956

Yes, I have read that article as posted earlier in Bike Forums. For all intents and purposes, the pavement up here is well-nigh perfect. Anyway, thank you for sending this article. You assumed that I was riding on imperfect roads. Never assume. Always ask questions if you do not know. Making a wise-guy comment like "road buzz is not speed" may just cause conflict.

MooneyBloke 09-04-23 08:33 PM

All I can say is wow! I think I'm more or less done with this place.

By the bye, we are all riding on less than perfect pavement. That's the damn point.


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