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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Narsinha 05-19-16 09:04 AM


Originally Posted by AngeloDolce (Post 18777967)
Can you tell if they are internal parts (takes some effort to identify and find), or external parts (which are much easier to find and may not necessarily need to be Sturmey Archer specific)?

Not yet, have tried to get off this H60 part, from the hub. I failed, and took it to the local store. They also failed, but also told me they did not have the right tool for this and hesitated to put it in a vice, with the concave flanks. It is screwed on (i guess clockwise), and refuses to part.

What do i do now. Buy a special tool for removing this, does this tool even exist? How do you screw off this part, when you maintain a hub and the inner parts? This part is screwed on bombproof.

Cannot ride the bicycle for a week now :rolleyes:

Salubrious 05-19-16 10:21 AM


Originally Posted by artclone (Post 18779527)
Slick. Are those forks twin bladed or something?

Yes- the Humber Duplex fork.

It was originally designed for their tricycles about 1880, during that 20-year period of tricycles prior to the safety bikes but after the pennyfarthings lost favor. Humber was known as Humber-Beeston and made some very interesting tricycles. So that fork design persisted for about 75 years or so.

BigChief 05-19-16 11:21 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18780152)
But...​why?

The chainstays have straight fork ends instead of dropouts and the bolt on seat stays are massive. It would take a lot to flex a roadster frame. The Sports are dainty by comparison.

w1gfh 05-19-16 12:26 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18779056)
The 66 and 73 I have are very similar in workmanship. The 78 I have is rather not as nice being kindly and the two 80 bikes are back to being clean and neat (but different). I do not think the noodliness of these bikes has to do with the year, rather that they are small tube sizes with generous angles and wheelbase. The 66 23 I have is noticeably more mushy than my 74 21 which in comparison actually feels rather sporty. The frames are soft, maybe dead is too cruel. But I have ridden bikes much worse, the Raleigh tubing is fine for the purpose, these are not racing bikes as I get reminded here. There is a little spring in them so they are not really dead (not at all like a department store bike, not at all) once I retune my bike feel but an Italian racer of Columbus or a high end Japanese bike of Tange Prestige they are not.

The "deadest" feeling bike I ever rode was 1990s Specialized "Crossroads". Felt like a ton of bricks, had to push it up steep hills. In comparison, the Sports feels like a springy, lively racer.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3500/3...3f106f51_b.jpg

gster 05-19-16 02:51 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18780007)
I do, but rather than a piece of leather, I use a rubber band which is continuous. I do it so people how I got the rubber band "in there." Obviously, I do it when I'm lacing spokes into a wheel I'm building. I'd like to use something more durable than a rubber band. Any suggestions for durable continuous loops?

Vacumn cleaner belts.
Is there a prize for the best answer?

DQRider 05-19-16 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18781454)
Vacumn cleaner belts.
Is there a prize for the best answer?

I still like the leather strap with a rivet. Looks classier.

noglider 05-19-16 03:13 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18781529)
I still like the leather strap with a rivet. Looks classier.

Perhaps it looks better, but it's clear that it's possible to install after the wheel is built, so [MENTION=301310]gster[/MENTION] wins the prize. Great idea.

slowtostart 05-19-16 03:29 PM


Originally Posted by noglider (Post 18781533)
Perhaps it looks better, but it's clear that it's possible to install after the wheel is built, so [MENTION=301310]gster[/MENTION] wins the prize. Great idea.

I seek no prize. How about one of those "cause" wrist bands?
STS

w1gfh 05-19-16 04:05 PM

Vintage hub shiner for me.

https://threespeedmania.files.wordpr...8_20.jpg?w=590

artclone 05-19-16 04:15 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 18781692)

Wow. This whole time I thought you guys were pulling my leg about the hub shiners.

Well, since this real then the vacuum cleaner belt is a good idea for when you're building a wheel.

For an already built wheel: Using a riveted leather strap you'd have to carefully rivet so the rivet wouldn't scratch the hub, maybe by making a second loop so the thing would look like an untwisted Mobius strip. And getting a rivet gun between spokes might get fiddly. So maybe Velcro'd leather . . . though getting such a strap might entail visiting an adult store ;).

clubman 05-19-16 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 18781692)

Hey, I used to own that card! :thumb:

SirMike1983 05-19-16 06:05 PM

I have seen hub shiners eventually wear the chrome off the hub shell. I would avoid them, if possible.

Loose Chain 05-19-16 06:11 PM


Originally Posted by w1gfh (Post 18780999)
The "deadest" feeling bike I ever rode was 1990s Specialized "Crossroads". Felt like a ton of bricks, had to push it up steep hills. In comparison, the Sports feels like a springy, lively racer.

I think we are using the term "dead" differently. I think you must mean stiff whereas I mean soft or rubbery (noodley). No matter, I love mine, I am getting more, Raleigh Rescue! Your Specialized, it is probably the dork disc that makes it feel dead, lol, poor thing is embarrassed what with both a dork disc and a kickstand, wonder it did not crawl under the bed.

I have seen those Hub Shiners long ago. I like the idea of a rubber O-ring before lacing. But those Hub Shinners are cool :). We just used a strap of leather with a rivet or a slot in it and then cut a tab on the other end and pull it through the slot.

In post 10655, I have the blue "girl" version of that bike on my rebuild list. I always considered Dunalt a step below Raleigh, still nice though?

Did any of these companies build an actual 22 inch C/C seat tube frame in the "Sports" profile?

gster 05-19-16 08:39 PM

Hub Shiners
I made up a few last year with some scrap leather and rivets...
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...e-hub-shiners/

clubman 05-19-16 08:58 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18781810)
Did any of these companies build an actual 22 inch C/C seat tube frame in the "Sports" profile?

The Clubmans were 22" and depending on year, were similar to the Sports. Look around late 40's for a Lenton Clubman as it was still built for 26 inch wheels.
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...on_Clubman.jpg

Loose Chain 05-19-16 09:07 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18782198)
The Clubmans were 22" and depending on year, were similar to the Sports. Look around late 40's for a Lenton Clubman as it was still built for 26 inch wheels.
http://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...on_Clubman.jpg


Oh, those are nice.

ascherer 05-19-16 09:12 PM


Originally Posted by slowtostart (Post 18781590)
I seek no prize. How about one of those "cause" wrist bands?
STS

Finally, a use for Livestrong wristbands!

artclone 05-19-16 09:37 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 18782157)
Hub Shiners
I made up a few last year with some scrap leather and rivets...
https://threespeedmania.wordpress.co...e-hub-shiners/

Ah, I see how you keep the rivet from wearing on the hub, nice. You could use snaps too.

Loose Chain 05-19-16 09:54 PM

Changing subjects slightly, though, please, the hub shiners are a fun topic, is there a decal set you guys recommend in particular? I see plenty on Ebait and about but are any of okay quality?

Velocivixen 05-19-16 11:34 PM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18780393)
Not yet, have tried to get off this H60 part, from the hub. I failed, and took it to the local store. They also failed, but also told me they did not have the right tool for this and hesitated to put it in a vice, with the concave flanks. It is screwed on (i guess clockwise), and refuses to part.

What do i do now. Buy a special tool for removing this, does this tool even exist? How do you screw off this part, when you maintain a hub and the inner parts? This part is screwed on bombproof.

Cannot ride the bicycle for a week now :rolleyes:

I looked up your AB hub and part from Sturmey Archer Heritage page from 1938 - a 3-speed with drum brake and their parts numbers all start with "K". Anyway K60 is the ball ring - does yours have 2 notches in it? If it is the part I am seeing it unscrews counter clockwise. Use a punch or awl and a hammer. It it's not the part then disregard. It is the part that screws the entire driving & gear system to the hub shell.

AngeloDolce 05-20-16 12:28 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18780393)
Not yet, have tried to get off this H60 part, from the hub. I failed, and took it to the local store. They also failed, but also told me they did not have the right tool for this and hesitated to put it in a vice, with the concave flanks. It is screwed on (i guess clockwise), and refuses to part.

What do i do now. Buy a special tool for removing this, does this tool even exist? How do you screw off this part, when you maintain a hub and the inner parts? This part is screwed on bombproof.

Cannot ride the bicycle for a week now :rolleyes:


Sorry for more questions, and I'll give a few more suggestions:

Is this the bike you purchased late last year? The paint and chrome are beautiful.

(1) Did all 3 gears work when you bought the bike, before you replaced the pitted cones?
Or was the bike not rideable, so you didn't test the gears?

(2) H60 Part
Do you mean the right hand ball ring (black metal ring with notches, screws into right side of hub under sprocket)? (Part number in old diagrams looks like K60 to me, new part number HSA121
Sturmey Archer Hub Part HSA 121 Ball Ring | eBay


If you haven't already, I would adjust the cones correctly before removing the ball ring, try WD40 or other cleaners as in earlier posts, and installing the wheel and shift cable correctly. If you're lucky, you won't need to open the hub.

If this doesn't (hasn't?) fix the gears, the ball ring is removed (normal counter clockwise thread) with a hammer and punch. Use a punch - the ball rings are too tight for a screw driver. Also see instructions to note the position of the ring so you can reinstall it in the same threads.

Notes from Sheldon Brown - especially section 2
Disassembly of Sturmey-Archer Hubs

Additional suggestions:
http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...er-aw-hub.html

There are two notches on the ball ring. Older hubs have square notches, while later hubs have semicircular notches. I see someone selling the Sturmey wrench for the notched hubs on Amazon:

Amazon.com : Sturmey-Archer Htr145 Classic Ball Ring Spanner S30S50 : Sports & Outdoors
(Yes, a tool exists, but I never seen one, or heard of a bike shop with one.)

Fortunately for me, my hubs have square notches (punch works well); I don't see how the Amazon tool can give you enough leverage to remove a tight ball ring.

I don't suggest putting the ball ring in a vise.

Narsinha 05-20-16 01:44 AM

Hello all,

re hub shiners, i would recommend the relatively cheap rings you can buy for this purpose, they look basically like pipe cleaners (if anyone remembers what that looks like lol) with longer bristles - only buy those with soft bristles. You can also use pipe cleaners themselves, but use those without intermediate hard bristles, because that might damage the chrome. I also would not use them all the time, just until it's clean again, and then wipe it with an oily cloth.


Regarding the Dl-1 hub:

The axle and innards are falling around within the hub now, but i cannot pull out the axle with the gears, without removing the ball ring.


@Velocivixen
Thanks, yes the numbers start with K, not H. Sorry! The ball ring should be K60 then. Has two semicircular notches. So it is a "normal" right clockwise thread, and i would unscrew it counter-clockwise, ok.
"It is the part that screws the entire driving & gear system to the hub shell. " Yes http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/thumb.gif

@AngeloDolce
Yes it is the bicycle i bought last year 2015 (built around 1980), looks really newish with perfect chrome and black colour, but has some small paint bruises here and there. The screws that hold the mudguard stays are painted together with the stays very "thickly", almost as if the whole part has been ditched into paint, or powder coated. You cannot unscrew it without breaking the paint.
1) Only rode it once but saw i had to do a bit about it. Slack spokes, bearings too tight and no grease (!), and almost all bearing shells damaged as i found out. Gears worked though, before i changed the cones. Dimensions of the new cones are exactly as the old ones.
2) Yes it is the right hand ball ring, with two semicircular notches on the ball ring, should be K60 indeed, sorry. The hub as a black plastic(!) lubricating nipple (need an older bicycle ;) )

Thanks for the links and information, i would like to have a look into the gears now that it's all (almost) disassembled. I find the action of putting the rear wheel on the longerons, and the chain on the front and rear sprocket through this chain housing (without damaging painting etc.) and then adjusting everything to be a bit.. masochistic http://www.bikeforums.net/images/smilies/wink.gif

Thanks, will use a brass punch and a hammer, with WD-40 (and maybe some heat).

All the best,
Kai

BigChief 05-20-16 05:35 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18782316)
Changing subjects slightly, though, please, the hub shiners are a fun topic, is there a decal set you guys recommend in particular? I see plenty on Ebait and about but are any of okay quality?

There's some really high quality transfers being made these days. VeloCals, Classic Transfers in the UK and Gus Salmon all produce top quality products. There's some on eBay that I can see are horrible just from the pictures. So, unless you have seen their work, I'd stick to the well known, more established makers.

BigChief 05-20-16 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Narsinha (Post 18782536)

Thanks, will use a brass punch and a hammer, with WD-40 (and maybe some heat).

All the best,
Kai

In my experience a real penetrating oil like PB Blaster or a home 50/50 mix of hydraulic oil and acetone works far better than WD40.
Can't imagine why SA would change the ball ring notches from square to half round.

w1gfh 05-20-16 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 18782198)
The Clubmans were 22" and depending on year, were similar to the Sports. Look around late 40's for a Lenton Clubman as it was still built for 26 inch wheels.

I love the Lenton Clubman! I believe it's the one Albert Finney was riding in Saturday Night and Sunday Morning: Film clip


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