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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 02-12-19 06:26 PM

I had a bad experience with a cotter pin as well...
It was the summer of 2012 and the events continue to haunt me
to this day. I will not relate the details as they
are far too disturbing to describe on this forum.
I'm unable to work and suffer from recurring
nightmares.
As a result of this trauma I've had to seek professional
counselling and joined a self help group to
work through the emotional pain of removing
a stuck pin.

RobbieAG 02-12-19 07:25 PM

Here's my trio of English 3 speeds:

https://i.postimg.cc/nc2xr3vX/Three3-Speeds.jpg


My first English 3 speed purchase was a 1972 Raliegh Twenty. I found it on Craigslist and got it for $60. It didn't shift or stop, but was complete and in pretty decent condition with not too much rust. I cleaned it up, got the shifting working and added new tires, tubes, Koolstop brake pads and a new seat (still have the original mattress seat). I've enjoyed taking it on vacations to the beach and throwing it in the trunk for casual rides locally.
https://i.postimg.cc/brL5yFK8/Raleigh-Twenty-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9MdSSfbD/Raleigh-Twenty-Right.jpg


Here is my next acquisition - a 1968 Raleigh Sports. I got it from a guy at a bike swap meet for $25 plus a NOS Suntour derailler I had bought off of eBay (for my mid 80s Schwinn 10 speed that it turned out I didn't need). It wasn't complete needing brakes and cables etc. I've had it for about 5 years and not gotten very far with it. A kind soul on here donated some parts to complete it, but it's been frustrating and I lost interest a number of times. It did come with a Brooks saddle. I've never been able to get it to shift properly so I suspect the SA hub is defective. I tried WD40 and oiling it, but no good. It also clunks when riding it, so I suspect the bottom bracket needs attention - something I've never done and don't have the proper tools for. I did get it to shift okay when I put the rear wheel and shifter/cable from my Robin Hood (see below), but it still clunked so it's time to move on.
https://i.postimg.cc/gcKQHnr5/Raleigh-Sports-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/x897SSpt/Raleigh-Sports-Right.jpg


Here's my most recent purchase - a 1970 Robin Hood that was on Craigslist and I got it for $50. It was complete and in pretty good condition. It shifted fine and rode well. Even the tires/tubes held air. I cleaned it up, put on new tires/ tubes, steering head bearings and a fulcrum clip. I put the saddle and pedals (already rebuilt) on from the Raleigh Sports. It still needs new brake pads because the braking is marginal at best. I have a soft spot for this bike because my very first bike was a red three speed with chrome fenders. It was a mid 60s Royce Union and I remember the shifting never worked - probably an early Shimano three speed hub.
https://i.postimg.cc/FR58DSyt/Robin-Hood-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/J44g6Mkh/Robin-Hood-Right.jpg

Slightspeed 02-12-19 07:45 PM

I was in Atomic Cycles in Van Nuys for a wheel build, and saw this '56 Raleigh Sport hanging on the wall. (I rotated the picture). It looks fairly complete, but could use a good cleaning. The round chain guard thingy is missing, but who would want to hide the nice herons on the crank? Not my style of bike, (I do love my Super Course) but thought some of you might be interested. I think he wants $250 as is. Sorry for the poor picture quality.https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6fe921549.jpg

gster 02-13-19 05:27 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieAG (Post 20792099)
Here's my trio of English 3 speeds:

https://i.postimg.cc/nc2xr3vX/Three3-Speeds.jpg


My first English 3 speed purchase was a 1972 Raliegh Twenty. I found it on Craigslist and got it for $60. It didn't shift or stop, but was complete and in pretty decent condition with not too much rust. I cleaned it up, got the shifting working and added new tires, tubes, Koolstop brake pads and a new seat (still have the original mattress seat). I've enjoyed taking it on vacations to the beach and throwing it in the trunk for casual rides locally.
https://i.postimg.cc/brL5yFK8/Raleigh-Twenty-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/9MdSSfbD/Raleigh-Twenty-Right.jpg


Here is my next acquisition - a 1968 Raleigh Sports. I got it from a guy at a bike swap meet for $25 plus a NOS Suntour derailler I had bought off of eBay (for my mid 80s Schwinn 10 speed that it turned out I didn't need). It wasn't complete needing brakes and cables etc. I've had it for about 5 years and not gotten very far with it. A kind soul on here donated some parts to complete it, but it's been frustrating and I lost interest a number of times. It did come with a Brooks saddle. I've never been able to get it to shift properly so I suspect the SA hub is defective. I tried WD40 and oiling it, but no good. It also clunks when riding it, so I suspect the bottom bracket needs attention - something I've never done and don't have the proper tools for. I did get it to shift okay when I put the rear wheel and shifter/cable from my Robin Hood (see below), but it still clunked so it's time to move on.
https://i.postimg.cc/gcKQHnr5/Raleigh-Sports-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/x897SSpt/Raleigh-Sports-Right.jpg


Here's my most recent purchase - a 1970 Robin Hood that was on Craigslist and I got it for $50. It was complete and in pretty good condition. It shifted fine and rode well. Even the tires/tubes held air. I cleaned it up, put on new tires/ tubes, steering head bearings and a fulcrum clip. I put the saddle and pedals (already rebuilt) on from the Raleigh Sports. It still needs new brake pads because the braking is marginal at best. I have a soft spot for this bike because my very first bike was a red three speed with chrome fenders. It was a mid 60s Royce Union and I remember the shifting never worked - probably an early Shimano three speed hub.
https://i.postimg.cc/FR58DSyt/Robin-Hood-Left.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/J44g6Mkh/Robin-Hood-Right.jpg

A Terrific Trio!
You can service the BB without special tools.
The lock ring can be loosened/removed with a flat heat screwdriver and a hammer,
As always it's the cotters that can mess you up.

BigChief 02-13-19 06:17 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20792420)
A Terrific Trio!
You can service the BB without special tools.
The lock ring can be loosened/removed with a flat heat screwdriver and a hammer,
As always it's the cotters that can mess you up.

I think maybe the reason I have a cotter problem so rarely is that for a few days before I take a crank apart I take the nuts and washers off and fill the well with penetrating oil. The next day, I'll flip the crank around and fill the other side. Typically, I'll hit all the parts with penetrating oil for a few days before I start a project. Sometimes, I'll borrow a bit of nail polish remover from my wife and mix it with brake fluid, but mostly I use DB Blaster.
I did BB servicing for years without the lock ring spanner. The cup does want to move when you tap the lock ring with a punch and hammer, but eventually I got it right. The spanner does make it much easier.

BigChief 02-13-19 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by raleighroadster (Post 20791682)
Sorry, forgot, that is a seatpost off a superbe. The original seatpost was too tall on the narrow top part for the brooks saddle to not hit, as the brooks saddle is lower. Sharp eyes! Maybe I should just shorten the original seatpost to be more authentic ??!!

I'm always collecting small details about Raleighs. It's a hobby. Now I'm wondering if all pre-war Raleighs had the seat post you describe. The 51 Rudge is the oldest Raleigh I've had. I noticed that the seat post had that gray finish rather than bright chrome. I was thinking it may be a feature that could be tied to a timeline.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by raleighroadster (Post 20790107)
1st ride with a brooks saddle today . So much better then the old creaky mattress saddle that came on the bike. 40 minutes , 50 degrees, sunny. Tomorrow 30 degrees with 30 mph winds! 1939 raleigh sports. All original except shift cable , grips, and tires/tubes. Original paint with all the decals intact. Stored inside 100 % of the time. A one owner bike, bought it from the son of the engineer who owned it . It sat in his basement for 15 years, tires melted into the concrete

I am wowed by the idea of owning a bike from 1939. My only ambivalence is about all the trim the bikes are loaded with; the full chain case and the fenders especially. Lately I find I'm enjoying riding the Rudge where I removed the partial chain case and fenders. Obviously not on rain days. It's not so much the weight, but the bike is much quieter and less vibration comes through the handlebars.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 07:32 AM


Originally Posted by RobbieAG (Post 20792099)
Here's my trio of English 3 speeds:
Here is my next acquisition - a 1968 Raleigh Sports. I got it from a guy at a bike swap meet for $25 plus a NOS Suntour derailler I had bought off of eBay (for my mid 80s Schwinn 10 speed that it turned out I didn't need). It wasn't complete needing brakes and cables etc. I've had it for about 5 years and not gotten very far with it. A kind soul on here donated some parts to complete it, but it's been frustrating and I lost interest a number of times. It did come with a Brooks saddle. I've never been able to get it to shift properly so I suspect the SA hub is defective. I tried WD40 and oiling it, but no good. It also clunks when riding it, so I suspect the bottom bracket needs attention - something I've never done and don't have the proper tools for. I did get it to shift okay when I put the rear wheel and shifter/cable from my Robin Hood (see below), but it still clunked so it's time to move on.

It can almost certainly be resurrected so I hope you'll find it a home and not abandon it.

BigChief 02-13-19 09:48 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20792500)
I am wowed by the idea of owning a bike from 1939. My only ambivalence is about all the trim the bikes are loaded with; the full chain case and the fenders especially. Lately I find I'm enjoying riding the Rudge where I removed the partial chain case and fenders. Obviously not on rain days. It's not so much the weight, but the bike is much quieter and less vibration comes through the handlebars.

I also enjoy riding stripped down roadsters, but I am enjoying my full dress/ dyno hub 51 too. There's no was around it...you need both.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 10:04 AM

This is off topic and I'm sorry but... I just patched a flat tire and while I had the tire off I thought I'd give the wheel, pretty filthy from this weather, a rinse. As I have said I live in a NYC apartment. I don't have a workshop or garage or basement where I can work or a slop sink. Oh god what an awful mess I made. If there was a woman around here I'd be thrown out in the street with a cardboard box to live in. I had to get out the Goo Gone Kitchen Degreaser spray, the strongest cleaner I have, to make things almost right and it still took more than a half hour and it's not perfect. It's like the plot of The Cat In the Hat Comes Back. I am really ashamed of myself.

BigChief 02-13-19 10:29 AM

Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

paulb_in_bkln 02-13-19 01:33 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792836)
Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

Thank you Big Chief! I put in some more time and have got things set pretty much right.

Ged117 02-13-19 01:53 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792836)
Don't be ashamed. Life without a workspace of some sort is just plain unnatural. Not your fault.

Hi BigChief. Regarding the seat post:

When I pulled my hitherto untouched 1950 Raleigh's seat post out, the finish below the grease line was absolutely perfect chrome. It looked like Johnny had just installed it. I'll post a photo with my update blurb after this weekend's activities.

gster 02-13-19 03:59 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20792769)
I also enjoy riding stripped down roadsters, but I am enjoying my full dress/ dyno hub 51 too. There's no was around it...you need both.

Agreed.

RobbieAG 02-13-19 07:33 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20792420)
A Terrific Trio!
You can service the BB without special tools.
The lock ring can be loosened/removed with a flat heat screwdriver and a hammer,
As always it's the cotters that can mess you up.

I suppose since I have three of these bikes, I can justify spending some money on specialized tools. I do find it frustrating working on bicycles that there are so many specialized tools. Every bottom bracket is different; every freewheel is different etc. I work on my five cars and two motorcycles and don't have to worry about nearly as many model specific tools that may only get used once or twice.



Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20792508)
It can almost certainly be resurrected so I hope you'll find it a home and not abandon it.

I'll either sell it as is for a fair price, or keep it around for learning, experimenting and maybe spare parts. I am limited on space though.

dweenk 02-14-19 04:19 PM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20778973)
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6405959ea0.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6e2416c11c.jpg
A fellow bike guy called this morning to see if I was still interested in a bike he has had for 22years or so. It is a Belgium Royal Nord President believed to be circa 1967. I looked at a couple of years ago and took a couple of poor phone shots. At that time he didn't want to part with it, but now has changed his mind. We will have to get to a lower price but I think I want the bike. The green/marble paintjob and the chainguard are fascinating . Now to the English part. Brampton Speedy Switch and hub? Are these similar to the Sturmey Archer?

I have a Speedy Switch shifter that is marked "Made in Japan" and has no mention of Brampton on it. It is a dead ringer for an S/A or S/A licensed unit.

nlerner 02-15-19 10:22 AM

Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

BigChief 02-15-19 01:01 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20796000)
Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

There's a good shot of the seat tube lug which dates it to 55 or 56. Still has it's double quill pedals. I'd say it could be a worthy project. Rims look iffy though.

dweenk 02-15-19 04:02 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20796000)
Looks like a 50s Sports with intact B72 for reasonable money north of Boston. Note the braze-on pulley wheel. That would place this in the 1950s?

https://images.craigslist.org/00p0p_...hk_600x450.jpg

https://boston.craigslist.org/nos/bi...817841216.html

Is the drive side crank bent? The dent in the chain guard seems to be at the very point of crank rotation. Just asking.

browngw 02-15-19 06:52 PM


Originally Posted by dweenk (Post 20796586)
Is the drive side crank bent? The dent in the chain guard seems to be at the very point of crank rotation. Just asking.

The '72 Root Beer Express I just finished had the same denting in the chainguard obviously from the pedal but not a bent crank arm,https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3ea617807.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3754ec9a2d.jpg
but a loose poorly adjusted chain guard. A very patient car restorer friend of mine was able to straighten it pretty good with very little loss of paint.

paulb_in_bkln 02-16-19 06:33 AM


Originally Posted by browngw (Post 20796781)
The '72 Root Beer Express I just finished had the same denting in the chainguard obviously from the pedal but not a bent crank arm,https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3ea617807.jpg

but a loose poorly adjusted chain guard. A very patient car restorer friend of mine was able to straighten it pretty good with very little loss of paint.

I wondered why a new shifter cable came with a full length housing when both my bikes run the housing just a short way to a fulcrum stop at the front of the bike. I see this bike has the housing run to the rear of the bike and no pulley. Is there any advantage? Because when I eventually set up my Peugeot mixte conversion, I could do it either way (but I won't need a pulley as the long diagonal tubes allow the shift cable to go straight to the dropout).

BigChief 02-16-19 06:36 AM

Good job on the chainguard. Those are tricky to work on since you can't get a big piece of wood behind the dent. I see you touched up the chip in the paint too. Nice work, looks very good.

mkeller234 02-16-19 06:48 AM


BigChief 02-16-19 07:00 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 20797175)
I wondered why a new shifter cable came with a full length housing when both my bikes run the housing just a short way to a fulcrum stop at the front of the bike. I see this bike has the housing run to the rear of the bike and no pulley. Is there any advantage? Because when I eventually set up my Peugeot mixte conversion, I could do it either way (but I won't need a pulley as the long diagonal tubes allow the shift cable to go straight to the dropout).

This was one of Raleigh's cost cutting measures. It first appeared on lower cost models and eventually appeared on the Sports in the later 70s. I never cared for it. The less friction, the better on SA shifters.

paulb_in_bkln 02-16-19 08:30 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20797192)
This was one of Raleigh's cost cutting measures. It first appeared on lower cost models and eventually appeared on the Sports in the later 70s. I never cared for it. The less friction, the better on SA shifters.

Yeah, I was thinking something very similar. Thanks.


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