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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

Ged117 05-06-19 08:19 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20915302)
That's going to be a very nice bike when it's done.
Good work.

Thanks. Apologies for the poor quality photos. Once it is more ship shape, I'll take it to a great local area for photo taking. I notice others take great photos indoors (I assume with their phones?) Any tips on taking nice photo shots?

I've got some 3-in-1 20 weight motor oil (the blue one) for the hubs and bottom bracket (which turns very smoothly now). Once the hub is set up and shifter, fulcrum, etc set up, I'll finish up the brakes. I cleaned the original brake housings, and the matching green came out very nicely. I think I ought to oil the new cables, or maybe grease them, prior to running them through the original housings. The kool stop pads will be very orange, but I'm not concerned with that. New cables and kool-stops should help it stop reasonably well, I'd imagine. Of course, the brake components are harvested from a '79 Sports, since the original 1950 parts hardware crumbled and are more difficult to work with. It is great to have the bike finally on wheels, and brought out in the daylight of spring. It has been a long project.

gster 05-06-19 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20916270)
Thanks. Apologies for the poor quality photos. Once it is more ship shape, I'll take it to a great local area for photo taking. I notice others take great photos indoors (I assume with their phones?) Any tips on taking nice photo shots?

I've got some 3-in-1 20 weight motor oil (the blue one) for the hubs and bottom bracket (which turns very smoothly now). Once the hub is set up and shifter, fulcrum, etc set up, I'll finish up the brakes. I cleaned the original brake housings, and the matching green came out very nicely. I think I ought to oil the new cables, or maybe grease them, prior to running them through the original housings. The kool stop pads will be very orange, but I'm not concerned with that. New cables and kool-stops should help it stop reasonably well, I'd imagine. Of course, the brake components are harvested from a '79 Sports, since the original 1950 parts hardware crumbled and are more difficult to work with. It is great to have the bike finally on wheels, and brought out in the daylight of spring. It has been a long project.

Glad to see the progress.
One note.
3 in 1 yes for the hub.
Grease in the BB and head set.
I use this blue marine grease (Canadian Tire)
that seems to hold up well.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...4c10e40a01.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...148f60e70d.jpg
I also drip some oil into the old housings prior to installing a new cable.
The newer brake calipers are a good idea as it's almost impossible to find the older
style cables. Several members here have their own good solutions to this issue.

I took the 1930 Hercules for a quick ride down the alley yesterday (brakes are not set up)
A bit of a dog with the current gearing.
The 16T cog on the hub will have to be swapped out for a 19 or 20 (at least).
The 16 was something I had on hand.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...05d47eaac4.jpg

Ged117 05-06-19 09:19 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20916315)
Glad to see the progress.
One note.
3 in 1 yes for the hub.
Grease in the BB and head set.
I use this blue marine grease (Canadian Tire)
that seems to hold up well.

I also drip some oil into the old housings prior to installing a new cable.
The newer brake calipers are a good idea as it's almost impossible to find the older
style cables. Several members here have their own good solutions to this issue.

I took the 1930 Hercules for a quick ride down the alley yesterday (brakes are not set up)
A bit of a dog with the current gearing.
The 16T cog on the hub will have to be swapped out for a 19 or 20 (at least).
The 16 was something I had on hand.

I've got the same marine grease. $5 for a huge tube of essentially the same grease that Phil Wood puts into a tiny tube and charges $20 for. I used it to pack the new Grade 25 bottom bracket bearings and headset bearings. Since the bottom bracket has an oil port, I added a teaspoon of 20W. That Hercules is a cool time capsule, especially in that colour. Toronto in the depressed '30s by Hercules, now that would be an interesting ride. They could barely keep the streetcars running resources were so tight. Here in Kingston, the local transit company went bankrupt during the depression, and the city couldn't afford to run the trams (yes we had a bunch!). Sadly, the tram lines were paved over or covered up in the years to come, and the City bought GM buses like everyone else. I used to spend a bunch of time around that part of Toronto (I previously worked for an app-based car share company, now gone from Toronto). The alleys were always interesting.

What I'm very curious about is the gear potential for the AG paired with the Cyclo 3-speed. I'm planning to use this bicycle for nice-day commutes when I'm feeling a bit leisurely, along with weekend trail riding. I may even take it on an overnighter or two into Prince Edward County once I can trust the set up.

clubman 05-06-19 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20916195)
Original (?) 28 x 1/14Ē (!) Dunlop Speedster tires hold air. There is a rear derailer mount, but judging by the paint, none was ever installed (see pics). New brake cables and brake pads. It rides, but one has to be gentle with it![/color]

If those are truly the EA4 28 x 1 1/4" wheels, they are rare as hens teeth in that condition. These were the oversized 647mm bead that were common in Canada in the 30's and 40's, found on CCM Racers and Planets. An interesting bike, to be sure, perhaps the CWC company?

BigChief 05-06-19 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Ged117 (Post 20916382)
I've got the same marine grease. $5 for a huge tube of essentially the same grease that Phil Wood puts into a tiny tube and charges $20 for. I used it to pack the new Grade 25 bottom bracket bearings and headset bearings. Since the bottom bracket has an oil port, I added a teaspoon of 20W. That Hercules is a cool time capsule, especially in that colour. Toronto in the depressed '30s by Hercules, now that would be an interesting ride. They could barely keep the streetcars running resources were so tight. Here in Kingston, the local transit company went bankrupt during the depression, and the city couldn't afford to run the trams (yes we had a bunch!). Sadly, the tram lines were paved over or covered up in the years to come, and the City bought GM buses like everyone else. I used to spend a bunch of time around that part of Toronto (I previously worked for an app-based car share company, now gone from Toronto). The alleys were always interesting.

What I'm very curious about is the gear potential for the AG paired with the Cyclo 3-speed. I'm planning to use this bicycle for nice-day commutes when I'm feeling a bit leisurely, along with weekend trail riding. I may even take it on an overnighter or two into Prince Edward County once I can trust the set up.

I'm curious to see how the Cyclo works out too. A dual cog AW hub project is starting to appeal to me. Lots of issues to work through and puzzles to solve. It would keep me busy for a long time. Might even end up being a fun ride

gster 05-06-19 03:22 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20916607)
If those are truly the EA4 28 x 1 1/4" wheels, they are rare as hens teeth in that condition. These were the oversized 647mm bead that were common in Canada in the 30's and 40's, found on CCM Racers and Planets. An interesting bike, to be sure, perhaps the CWC company?

I just got off the phone with the seller.
I've bought a couple of bikes from him over the years.
He's bringing it over tomorrow afternoon.
He doesn't know much about it as it came from an estate sale
but has a "Gold Medal" badge up front.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...785868e674.jpg

Someone else here was asking about them a while back.
It'll be a summer bike for a friend of mine who's
coming to Toronto to work.
I'll keep everyone posted once I get it.
Thanks
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...2b7079d261.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e3a0ab159a.jpg

gster 05-06-19 03:42 PM

Turns out I've posted about this bike a few months ago...
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e673fb0c6d.jpg


dweenk 05-07-19 11:42 AM

I should have put this in "Pay It Forward" maybe...

I have a Raleigh Sports handlebar 53cm wide (outside to outside) free for postage. The chrome is toast, so I painted it black. It will fit in a USPS large flat rate box.

gster 05-07-19 02:55 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20916607)
If those are truly the EA4 28 x 1 1/4" wheels, they are rare as hens teeth in that condition. These were the oversized 647mm bead that were common in Canada in the 30's and 40's, found on CCM Racers and Planets. An interesting bike, to be sure, perhaps the CWC company?

Any ideas on a modern tire to fit these rims?
It's an interesting bike with a mysterious past....

clubman 05-07-19 03:04 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20918801)
Any ideas on a modern tire to fit these rims?
It's an interesting bike with a mysterious past....

When I looked at the video you posted, it appears the bike has 26 x 1 1/4, based on subjective perspective and the fact that the rims have a raised centre, often found in Canada. The 28 x 1 1/4 were Endricks only AFAIK.

Can you confirm the size?

Salubrious 05-07-19 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20918811)
When I looked at the video you posted, it appears the bike has 26 x 1 1/4, based on subjective perspective and the fact that the rims have a raised centre, often found in Canada. The 28 x 1 1/4 were Endricks only AFAIK.

Can you confirm the size?

I've seen that size on older British clubman cycles. It appears to be the same rim diameter as the Schwinn "26 x 1 3/8" tire (which is not the size seen on most British 3 speeds). You can get it at Harris Cyclery.

gster 05-07-19 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20918811)
When I looked at the video you posted, it appears the bike has 26 x 1 1/4, based on subjective perspective and the fact that the rims have a raised centre, often found in Canada. The 28 x 1 1/4 were Endricks only AFAIK.

Can you confirm the size?

I can only go by what's written on the tyre...
28 x 1-1/4
Dunlop Speedster
very old.
Interesting bike,

gster 05-07-19 08:02 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 20918838)
I've seen that size on older British clubman cycles. It appears to be the same rim diameter as the Schwinn "26 x 1 3/8" tire (which is not the size seen on most British 3 speeds). You can get it at Harris Cyclery.

Good point.
They don't look like 28" wheels.

clubman 05-08-19 05:42 AM

2 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gster (Post 20919265)
Good point.
They don't look like 28" wheels.

I've posted this before but it seems appropriate since it's a Canadian bike. The left side column of the Rim Chart shows the English sizes, of which there's two 28 x 1 1/4. One of them is a 630 mm/27" K2 which is easy enough to find. The next is an Endrick rim called an EA2 (sorry I said EA4, another obsolete size). This EA2 has the 80 inch bead circumference and is the equivalent to a 647 mm bead. The problem is that if and when you find these tires, they are always rotted out. I think real rubber didn't last long. This (your) Gold Medal is from the 50's however and just maybe, they did a run of these tires with a more modern compound. I seriously think there's a number of collectors on Vintage CCM that would pay well for this wheelset if it's the larger size.

gster 05-08-19 06:34 AM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 20919554)
I've posted this before but it seems appropriate since it's a Canadian bike. The left side column of the Rim Chart shows the English sizes, of which there's two 28 x 1 1/4. One of them is a 630 mm/27" K2 which is easy enough to find. The next is an Endrick rim called an EA2 (sorry I said EA4, another obsolete size). This EA2 has the 80 inch bead circumference and is the equivalent to a 647 mm bead. The problem is that if and when you find these tires, they are always rotted out. I think real rubber didn't last long. This (your) Gold Medal is from the 50's however and just maybe, they did a run of these tires with a more modern compound. I seriously think there's a number of collectors on Vintage CCM that would pay well for this wheelset if it's the larger size.

Thanks for this.
I'm thinking of leaving this bike as is...
I rode it down the street to the bar last night
and the truth is, it's not my style and I'd
have to change so many things around that it
would destroy the character.
I have put an old leather saddle on it
and could put a bigger cog on the back.
All in all still a mystery bike.
Made in Canada
British drive train
Gold Medal head badge (Gold Medal was a
brand by D.P.Harris/Rollfast out of NY)
The stem is amazing
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0e0d630033.jpg
It's got some random decals on it from a 60's model kit.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...cfaa0a45ac.jpg
A classic trigger
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f40e7d07a8.jpg
The grips are "Super Jets" from Rockaway NJ.
The brake levers are Canadian style.
There's a metal flange at the back to attach a derailleur to as well.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...87d1f6331a.jpg
You're right,
It's worth more in parts .
The rear rim has a ding in it.
I'll post some photos on the CCM forum and see
If anyone knows anything.
It may have come out of the Humphrey factory at
Queen and Spadina (behind the Horseshe Tavern)
I had a Humphrey years ago with the same grips
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...39fb05f2bd.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...97d4aeb667.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...eb684bc89a.jpg

gster 05-08-19 06:39 AM

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f11631368b.jpg
So they are EA 2 Endrick rims...

gster 05-08-19 06:54 AM

here's a link to the CCM forum regarding KAY bicycles
https://vintageccm.com/content/1930s...-ok-track-bike

clubman 05-08-19 09:12 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20919617)
here's a link to the CCM forum regarding KAY bicycles
https://vintageccm.com/content/1930s...-ok-track-bike


thx

paulb_in_bkln 05-08-19 03:45 PM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 20916648)
I'm curious to see how the Cyclo works out too. A dual cog AW hub project is starting to appeal to me. Lots of issues to work through and puzzles to solve. It would keep me busy for a long time. Might even end up being a fun ride

Where would you start? Is there a driver that will accept two cogs?

Salubrious 05-08-19 03:56 PM

All SA hubs accept up to 3 cogs. When only 1 cog is used, the hub has two spacers installed (which are also used to adjust the chain driveline).

nlerner 05-08-19 04:42 PM

I experimented some time back (and just disassembled that hub, which is why I thought of it) with an AW hub with a threaded driver, a 6 1/4” axle, and a 5-speed freewheel, mostly to see if what I’ve read on the Internets can actually be done. Yup, plenty of axle to fit in 120mm dropouts with room for the freewheel. Now, I don’t necessarily need a 15- or 30- or 45-gear bike a la Sheldon Brown, but, I suppose my point is, why stop at 2 cogs?!

gster 05-08-19 06:13 PM

My new pals at Hoop Rider in Owen Sound did
have some NOS Dunlop Speedster tires but they're sold out.....
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d156ab2fa8.jpg
They say it's a modern ISO 32-630 size.
I have a set of 27" x 1 1/2" (37-630)
That I might have a go at.
But I'm somewhat hesitant to mess with it.
It should be in a Museum...
I have put a vintage leather saddle on it.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f4e6b207bd.jpg

gster 05-08-19 06:19 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20920460)
I experimented some time back (and just disassembled that hub, which is why I thought of it) with an AW hub with a threaded driver, a 6 1/4Ē axle, and a 5-speed freewheel, mostly to see if what Iíve read on the Internets can actually be done. Yup, plenty of axle to fit in 120mm dropouts with room for the freewheel. Now, I donít necessarily need a 15- or 30- or 45-gear bike a la Sheldon Brown, but, I suppose my point is, why stop at 2 cogs?!

Does this not betray the purity of the 3 speed?
The Holy Trinity?
1-2-3?
I spent all day on my Robin Hood.
Hills, schmills!

nlerner 05-08-19 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 20920601)
Does this not betray the purity of the 3 speed?
The Holy Trinity?
1-2-3?
I spent all day on my Robin Hood.
Hills, schmills!

Well, whatever the combo, as long as it's evenly divisible by 3, the 3-speed gods will be satisfied.

gster 05-08-19 07:37 PM


Originally Posted by nlerner (Post 20920685)
Well, whatever the combo, as long as it's evenly divisible by 3, the 3-speed gods will be satisfied.

Good.
Whenever I tell my wife that
I've bought another bike,
I tell her,
the devil made me do it.


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