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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

gster 12-18-19 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21248902)
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e18ad15194.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...efb5de33df.jpg
I had it partly apart and resurfaced the cones, new oil and grease, tried the wheel and put it back on the bike

I don't know about drum brakes but I know NOS brake linings are out there...
There was a box sold at the Toronto Vintage Bicycle Show last summer.

gster 12-18-19 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by robalong (Post 21249113)
Hello!

Newbie just found this thread. Glorious! Not sure about the glory of the mustache, but never mind.

I have some posts up about Sturmey 3-speed hubs. I hope to become an expert by the time I've stripped and cleaned and inspected eight or nine of them.

When I was a kid, I hated bikes with Sturmey Archer gearing. The big boys in my area had bikes with Campagnolo deerayllieuers and levers, and I was corrupted. Now, I know better. I can hold Sturmey steel in my hand, and feel it's value.

Merry Christmas!

Looking back to when I owned deraileur bikes, I rarely used more than 3 of the 18 available gears....
They were noisey, finicky, and generally filthy.
I made the move back to 3 speeds about 10 years ago and they suit my needs.
Many of us swap out the rear cog (18T standard) for something a bit bigger.
21T and 22T seem to suit me and make 3rd gear much more useable.
The internals can be a bit intimidating at first, but once you've got the hang
of it, quite straight forward.

robalong 12-18-19 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21249722)
Many of us swap out the rear cog (18T standard) for something a bit bigger.
21T and 22T seem to suit me and make 3rd gear much more useable.


That part reminded me of this:

Interviewer to Keith Richards: "Great that you're here today!"
Keith: "At my age, it's great to be anywhere."

You: "Many of us swap out the rear cog (18T standard) for something a bit bigger.
21T and 22T seem to suit me and make 3rd gear much more useable."
Me, responding: "At my age, I'm just happy to be pedalling!"

I'll be checking out the T-number options as I proceed. Never thought about it before, so thanks for that.

Merry Christmas!

arty dave 12-18-19 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21246926)
I am working on a ?1939? Elswick 26 inch roadster. It has an undated ab hub with a rod operated drum brake. Anyone have any experience with drum brakes. Can you buy new shoes? How should they be adjusted?

When I needed new drum shoes for my '63 DL-1 I was lucky and found a modern 90mm SA XRD-5 hub at a recyclers. The shoes were in great condition, and fit perfectly into the drum hubs of the DL-1, but I chose to put them in the front drum hub because this is the one that does most of the braking work. My DL-1's AB brake has always been extremely mediocre in performance no matter what shoes I put in it, even with trying the newish shoes. I've read that the seal on AB hubs between gears and drum is not great, and will eventually allow oil to migrate to the shoes. I've used marine grease to hopefully act as an oil barrier of sorts, and I guess the occasional clean with brake cleaner will be the thing to do when things seem less brakey.

The other tweaks that improve braking performance are to adjust the distance between the ends of the handlebar levers and the grips to 5", then you'll have more lever travel to apply more force to the brakes once the shoes engage. When adjusting the rod pull have the shoes as close as possible to touching the drum walls. There's a fair amount of slop and flex in the rod pull system so it will never be as good as cable operated drum brakes. If someone knows of any other tips please let us know, I've had a couple of hairy descents on the DL-1 where I've been close to taking up religion.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d4c0e60fd9.jpg

ascherer 12-18-19 08:25 PM


Originally Posted by jmeb (Post 17907120)

MOST YES! That's a beautiful build.Very much what I'm aiming for with my International.

bluesteak 12-18-19 09:13 PM

arty

Thanks for the great input. I have cleaned the brakes when I had the hub apart. Fortunately the front brake is a roller lever rim brake. Ill let you know where I end up when I get the whole bike back together.

rear cogs for old pappys? 22 teeth and one section of chain puts the wheel in about the right place.

paulb_in_bkln 12-19-19 08:24 AM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21246983)
As a kid I had a dream I wanted to own my own bicycle. When I got the bike I must have been the happiest boy in Liverpool, maybe the world. I lived for that bike. Most kids left their bike in the backyard at night. Not me. I insisted on taking mine indoors and the first night I even kept it in my bed.
-John Lennon

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...feccdc8a36.jpg

I don't think celebrity spotting is the game it used to be here. Before the worst happened it was hard to exceed seeing John around town. I never did, unfortunately. Glad someone had a camera for this one.

Ged117 12-20-19 12:47 PM

I bid and won an eBay listing for a Sturmey light set off of a seller-claimed '47 Raleigh Lenton. These are hard to find and I didn't expect to win. I thought I had bid on the lamps alone - not including the dynohub. Yet when I opened the box, it was included (June 1946 date stamp).

Very pleased to have found a SA light set that is mostly correct for the step-through 1956 Sports in green that I am servicing and polishing as a gift for Christmas to my girl (posted here a few weeks ago). I will be putting together an LED upgrade like the one here Classic Three Speeds: LED Lighting: Circuit Board and LED's to make her more visible in her daily riding based on lessons I am learning with my Superbe's Dynoluxe lamp system. Now, I have two dynohubs (this '46 and a '47 in slightly nicer condition that I found here in Ottawa that I will be building into a CR18 for this bike if I am able). I'm not sure what to do with this one - I was thinking a 700c wheel for my Voyageur tourer, but I don't think a daytime touring bike needs a dynamo system. I may just keep it as spare parts for the hubs in service, including the '50 AG on my Superbe. I have a later model '62 dynohub that is going in a Velocity wheel for my all-rounder Peugeot and will power a set of B&M lights. I think I have become obsessed with dynamo lighting.


https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/O9kAA...RY/s-l1600.jpghttps://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...afd6c487b5.jpg56 with SW hub that will get a dynohub CR18 and late '40s SA set of lamps.

bluesteak 12-20-19 02:30 PM

Congrats on the dump hub and lights.

They just knocked off a 53 SA FM Hub on eBay for $58. Is that about the going rate?

bluesteak 12-20-19 02:40 PM

Dyno hub

Ged117 12-20-19 03:12 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21252682)
Congrats on the dump hub and lights.

They just knocked off a 53 SA FM Hub on eBay for $58. Is that about the going rate?

The prices for Sturmey gears on eBay are really out of this world most of the time. I think an AC (close ratio three speed) went for $1000 or something last year. For an FM I'd expect $60 since they are rarer. The rarer hubs usually come out of the UK, so then there is shipping. I'd rather have the wider ratio FW for my usage though. Poking around parts bins in old bike shops you can usually find a three-speed AW, but likely one from the late '60s or '70s (which is not a bad thing). I like the older '40s and '50s bikes and parts myself since the quality of the parts or chrome plating is often better and shines up nicely (though in the case of the AW, the year of make has no bearing on whether it is going to work or not - the AW always works). I see sturmey hub gear AW bikes chugging around here at least twice a day on my commute.

I got a pretty good deal on my FW alloy four-speed hub with a '53 date code and shifter. I paid a little more for a '56 AW because I wanted that year as a match for the '56 Sports I am working on (it has an SW hub, and I"m not sure it that is going to work out reliably for a nice day commuter / rider).

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6785a23cdb.jpg
1956 SW
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fdccdb226c.jpg
1956 AW

clubman 12-20-19 04:14 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21252682)
Congrats on the dump hub and lights.

They just knocked off a 53 SA FM Hub on eBay for $58. Is that about the going rate?

I think that's cheap if it's complete with a trigger and in working condition. Period triggers are hard to find.

gster 12-20-19 09:36 PM


Originally Posted by clubman (Post 21252809)
I think that's cheap if it's complete with a trigger and in working condition. Period triggers are hard to find.

Agreed. It's the trigger that has the value.

bluesteak 12-21-19 07:08 AM

So what shifters are in demand. I assume the ones with windows, 4 speeds, inverted lettering. What about prewar frame mounted shifters, like I have on the 39?

BigChief 12-21-19 08:44 AM

One strange thing, There are repro quadrant shifters out there. I'm sure of this because I've seen a lot of a dozen for sale on ebay from China. I've never seen one in person and I can't be certain, but I doubt they would have embossed face plates like the originals. Today, things like this are commonly cast. The asking prices of early shifters are through the roof. I don't know if they are actually getting those prices though. $80? Good 3 or 4 but not even in good condition. edit: I have also seen on a different thread here an excellent copy of a headbadge made by 3D printing. I think that would be the most practical method for low volume. I don't think anybody would emboss brass plates like the originals. Also, look for the small circle with SA stamp. Not always there, but reassuring when it is.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Sturmey-Arc...wAAOSwZb9d1c53

gster 12-21-19 01:03 PM


Originally Posted by bluesteak (Post 21253280)
So what shifters are in demand. I assume the ones with windows, 4 speeds, inverted lettering. What about prewar frame mounted shifters, like I have on the 39?

I like anything prior to the crappy plastic faced triggers.

BigChief 12-21-19 06:32 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21253686)
I like anything prior to the crappy plastic faced triggers.

The 50s windows are my favorites. Mostly because I like the longer lever, but I think the trigger shifter reached perfection was the pre window 3 or 4 speed with the whole plate embossed in relief. That's when they got the internal leaf spring, threaded ferrule port and the case hardened ratchet plate was slotted for the sausage style cable end. Like this one


https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...9a8a0589ef.jpg



the next style was more modern with less in relief embossing but still beautiful


https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6aef1b5df6.jpg

clubman 12-21-19 06:40 PM


Originally Posted by gster (Post 21253686)
I like anything prior to the crappy plastic faced triggers.

The black plastic dipped thumb version makes me gag a little.

paulb_in_bkln 12-22-19 07:53 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21253986)
The 50s windows are my favorites. Mostly because I like the longer lever, but I think the trigger shifter reached perfection was the pre window 3 or 4 speed with the whole plate embossed in relief. That's when they got the internal leaf spring, threaded ferrule port and the case hardened ratchet plate was slotted for the sausage style cable end. Like this one


the next style was more modern with less in relief embossing but still beautiful


Is there anything that will substitute for one of the original trigger shifters with a 4 speed?

BigChief 12-22-19 08:18 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21254400)
Is there anything that will substitute for one of the original trigger shifters with a 4 speed?

SA continued to make the window style 4 speed shifters (without window) well into the 70s. They have the same case, internal leaf spring, longer lever and bolt on the strap instead of the through body that started for 3 speeds in the mid 50s. I see them occasionally on eBay. One of those or the earlier 3 or 4 speed are what you would need.

paulb_in_bkln 12-22-19 09:17 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 21254420)
SA continued to make the window style 4 speed shifters (without window) well into the 70s. They have the same case, internal leaf spring, longer lever and bolt on the strap instead of the through body that started for 3 speeds in the mid 50s. I see them occasionally on eBay. One of those or the earlier 3 or 4 speed are what you would need.

Ah. So there isn't a handlebar end shifter that would have the correct indexing?

BigChief 12-22-19 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21254487)
Ah. So there isn't a handlebar end shifter that would have the correct indexing?

I don't know about that, but the indexing on SA hubs isn't even. I guess one would have to give it a try before knowing how it would work out. I'd be interested in hearing about it if you experiment.

nlerner 12-22-19 11:14 AM


Originally Posted by paulb_in_bkln (Post 21254487)
Ah. So there isn't a handlebar end shifter that would have the correct indexing?

S-A makes a 3-speed and a 5-speed bar-end shifter (both of which can be used on downtube mounts) but not a 4-speed that Im aware of. Maybe the clicks are properly spaced on the 5-speed unit? Somehow I doubt it

gster 12-23-19 12:32 PM

We Three Speeds....
Old Faithful helps me again
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...32a4180ca8.jpg
Wheeled it home from the tree lot up the street.
Happy Holidays to all!

Johno59 12-23-19 02:16 PM

Why the Index?
 
SA gears are pretty well spaced,, so on a non- indexed shifter, you can easily feel for the shifter travel to select gears. The clutch spring on the average SA hub is quite strong , so not every slide shifter can cope but there are plenty that can deal with the pull, so you don't ghost shift.


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