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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

nelsonmilum 04-20-15 09:52 AM

Here's the google cached version in case the website is dead.

Reviving Old Raleigh 3-Speed Pedals On the Cheap

Velocivixen 04-20-15 10:26 AM

@Salubrious - thanks for responding to my question. Sounds good. The earlier GH6 has a dark "shell" where the two bolts are for attaching lights. The newer one has a light silver piece there & seems more sturdy.

Chesterton 04-20-15 11:40 AM


Originally Posted by forestine (Post 17735166)
I was just researching this and found this site (seems to be down, I'll link to it just in case it returns since I swear I read it a couple days ago). This guy took the unserviceable pedals off and dripped quite a bit of oil into where he could see the bearings to give them a good soaking in it. It might be easier to get some cheap new pedals instead, though. When I took mine off the other day, it turned out they were beyond saving.

That's a useful tip. I've done a bit more reading, and I've seen multiple references to Raleigh introducing the non-serviceable pedals in 1971 or 1972, so I may have squeaked by and might be able to adjust the bearing cones. The pedals are in pretty beat-up condition and if I keep the bike long term I might just replace them with a new set, but in the short term it would be good to just get the click out of the existing ones.

JohnDThompson 04-20-15 12:14 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17735300)
[MENTION=330095]The earlier GH6 has a dark "shell" where the two bolts are for attaching lights. The newer one has a light silver piece there & seems more sturdy.

Yes, my 1948 Dynohub (still works fine!) has a black Bakelite face where my newer Dynohubs have chromed steel. Mechanically and electrically, they appear nearly identical (the '48 hub has an oil cap while the others do not).

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/48-dynohub1.jpg

ronp6 04-20-15 03:54 PM

My latest English treasure is a 1950's Rudge Whitworth roadster framed 60 speed bike- 4 speed alloy Sturmey Archer FM, 3 ring Nervar crank, 5 speed freewheel. In the pictures I had already taken off the Campy derailleurs for servicing. The frame has no lugs and looks like it has suffered some geometry change but it was planned not like someone ran over it. The top tube looks to slant down, the bottom bracket looks higher and the lower part of the seat stay is welded to the chain stay and I thought they were all bolted on the bottom as well. The brakes are center pull Weinmann 999. The saddle is a B37 (lightweight B17) and everything that could be alloy has been changed out. It was a 1950's creation to race up Mount Washington in New Hampshire. The last section of the mountain is a 22% grade and pulling what is still likely a 35 pound bike up would take me all the gears I could get as well. I thought someone else might get a kick out of it. Hopefully the picture will show up.

http://i1171.photobucket.com/albums/...psdzipey9q.jpg

Velocivixen 04-20-15 04:41 PM

@ronp6 - I've never seen gearing like that. Could you please explain how a freewheel attaches to a 4 speed hub? I presume it screws on like usual. Thanks.

PalmettoUpstate 04-20-15 05:43 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17734128)
nice picture . another NYer ..my camaro upstairs ..shooting " american gangster "

See the T-Bird with white landau over burgundy? Went to the '64 World's Fair in N'Yawk in one of those - that exact color scheme - the top was vinyl - with me little brother and me Pappy. Cool time; everyone wanted to know if we were from Charleston. [I assume that was the only city in SC back in the day that the wannabe banksters knew existed in SC!]

ronp6 04-20-15 06:11 PM

Some and maybe all older Sturmey Archer hubs and Hercules before it was acquired had threads to put on the cog. I have had a few and thought about adding freewheels to them myself. I will service the bike in the next couple of weeks and when I pull it off I'll let you know more exactly.

JohnDThompson 04-20-15 06:18 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17736429)
@ronp6 - I've never seen gearing like that. Could you please explain how a freewheel attaches to a 4 speed hub? I presume it screws on like usual. Thanks.

Older (early 50s and earlier) Sturmey-Archer hubs had threaded drivers that could accept a freewheel. The problem with these is that you have to open the hub and remove the driver if you ever need to remove the cog or freewheel.

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/threaded-driver.jpg

Velocivixen 04-20-15 10:43 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 17736670)
Older (early 50s and earlier) Sturmey-Archer hubs had threaded drivers that could accept a freewheel. The problem with these is that you have to open the hub and remove the driver if you ever need to remove the cog or freewheel.

http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/threaded-driver.jpg

Nice to see a photo. I understand exactly what you're saying now. Still an interesting setup with the 3 chain rings, 5 cogs & 4 internal gears. Was this type of setup common? Was it a passing fad? What type of bike would it have been marketed on?

Lenton58 04-21-15 12:50 AM

I LOVE this. The colour is marvellous! A very classy build!


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 17715077)
I've put some more work into my 1978 Raleigh Superbe.
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/...psjc3hvckf.jpg


Narhay 04-21-15 08:55 AM


Originally Posted by Lenton58 (Post 17737317)
I LOVE this. The colour is marvellous! A very classy build!

Thank you. You can read more about the trials and tribulations here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...h-superbe.html

desconhecido 04-21-15 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by Narhay (Post 17738019)
Thank you. You can read more about the trials and tribulations here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...h-superbe.html

Yes, very nice.

Did you rebuild the front wheel with a CR18? I built a Dynohub 36 hole (3x both sides) wheel yesterday and it was an adventure in frustration. Tried to lace it in four steps, like normal, but the spokes kept falling out on the small flange side. So, built the large flange side and then went after the small flange side and with the spoke heads not wanting to stay in the flange holes and the spokes seeming to be too short it was trouble. I'm not sure what I did different the last try, but somehow it finally just worked. I must have been trying to lace the spokes to the wrong rim holes or something.

Narhay 04-21-15 09:49 AM

I did build the dynohub into a CR18 rim, as well as the rear wheel. The spoke holes were tough but as long as I kept tension on them they were ok. I reused the spokes so that might have saved me from some of the headaches you mention...although I did drop a number of spokes while building it.

ronp6 04-21-15 12:09 PM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 17737217)
Nice to see a photo. I understand exactly what you're saying now. Still an interesting setup with the 3 chain rings, 5 cogs & 4 internal gears. Was this type of setup common? Was it a passing fad? What type of bike would it have been marketed on?

Harris Cyclery use to list a 3 cog freewheel years ago but I remember the gearing being quite high. Occasionally one will show up on ebay. I think the 60 speeds is ridiculous since so many speeds are duplicates. A freewheel with a lower gear range or two would have been very welcome on a few hills. It could also let you ride in the 1:1 gear (2 on a 3 speed) where the hub is most efficient more of the time. I have a 3 speed Sturmey Archer that takes a modern 9 speed cassette that I plan to use on folder. I don't think they are available anymore but new ones show up on ebay. I think it takes a 130 or 135 dropout spacing so it couldn't go on a Sports.

JohnDThompson 04-21-15 01:00 PM


Originally Posted by desconhecido (Post 17738199)
Did you rebuild the front wheel with a CR18? I built a Dynohub 36 hole (3x both sides) wheel yesterday and it was an adventure in frustration. Tried to lace it in four steps, like normal, but the spokes kept falling out on the small flange side. So, built the large flange side and then went after the small flange side and with the spoke heads not wanting to stay in the flange holes and the spokes seeming to be too short it was trouble. I'm not sure what I did different the last try, but somehow it finally just worked. I must have been trying to lace the spokes to the wrong rim holes or something.

I shove a spoke nipple into the small flange slots to prevent the spokes from sliding out. And yes, you do have to take care to line things up properly with the large flange side to make it work. I built mine 2x on the large side and 3x on the small side, as that's how the wheel was laced from the factory. Did you run into any problems with 3x on the large side?

desconhecido 04-21-15 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 17738860)
I shove a spoke nipple into the small flange slots to prevent the spokes from sliding out. And yes, you do have to take care to line things up properly with the large flange side to make it work. I built mine 2x on the large side and 3x on the small side, as that's how the wheel was laced from the factory. Did you run into any problems with 3x on the large side?

I just checked my little scraps of paper (I have little scraps of paper up the wazoo) to make sure. The 36 hole Dynohub came from a Sprite with 27" wheels and was originally built 3X on both sides. My little scrap of paper indicates that I measured the original spokes when I unlaced the old wheel and that the short spokes were 289 mm. Just checked spocalc and with the dimensions that I measured (and which agree pretty well with the spocalc data base) it gives 288 mm for 3X and 273 for 2X. So, it was 3X and that's what I did and there was no problem with the crossings at the hub flange--it laced just like normal. I took a picture of it, but it's just a wheel. It's a Dynohub laced to a black 700C CR18 that is destined for a 56 Sports project. 700C wheels on a Sports probably with 32 mm tires to start. I'll post pictures of the whole thing when it gets road worthy.

Anyway, all my problems were on the small flange side. I took a more careful look at the small flange on the hub and it looks like the spoke seating holes are not equally spaced around the flange. The cutouts, each of which has a hole for a leading and trailing spoke, are equally spaced, but adjacent holes on adjacent keyhole are not. Have to study the wheel as it finally went together to see if I can figure out how the geometry works out.


Our most recent acquisition is the bike that we are calling the "Superbe Sports" and it has the traditional rims -- 32 front and 40 rear. The Dynohub on the front had 3X on the small and 2X on the large flange. So, that's what will be done when it goes back together.

Salubrious 04-21-15 02:25 PM

I've just done a radial spoke patterns on the alternator side on several wheels.

I've been thinking recently that a radial pattern is possible on the small side too. I'll be trying it next time I build one up...

michaelz28 04-21-15 06:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by ascherer (Post 17734961)
Sweet rides, about the same vintage! Having crossed the bridge upstairs zillions of times since the green Sports was new, I have to say I prefer the vibe down below.

i have a 74 myself also .. a 28 mile untouched ( good cleaning ) ..http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psqdggvdw0.jpg

forestine 04-21-15 09:07 PM

Argh, my chain guard came loose and my pedal jammed under it and now it's all bent. Is there a more elegant way to get it into place than bending it and hitting it with stuff, or is that the Raleigh way? I think I got it so it's not rubbing on anything now, but it's still super close to the pedal and I'm nervous. How close is it supposed to be?

markk900 04-22-15 05:02 AM

My wife passed this on to me.....I think this crowd can relate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzbvQMWd0es

Chesterton 04-23-15 09:03 AM


Originally Posted by Chesterton (Post 17735536)
That's a useful tip. I've done a bit more reading, and I've seen multiple references to Raleigh introducing the non-serviceable pedals in 1971 or 1972, so I may have squeaked by and might be able to adjust the bearing cones. The pedals are in pretty beat-up condition and if I keep the bike long term I might just replace them with a new set, but in the short term it would be good to just get the click out of the existing ones.

Happy to report that the 1970 Raleigh Sports did indeed have fully serviceable pedals. The dust cap unscrews and they were easy to disassemble (easier than my Pashley's modern pedals, actually, because there is a handy notch on the top of the cone for a screwdriver, which is easier than trying to unscrew it with needlenose pliers).

Question: how do you deal with 45 years of caked grease? I soaked the metal bits in odorless mineral spirits for at least 15 minutes, but the cups still have rock hard blobs of old grease in them. Do I just chisel it away with a small screwdriver or something and try to wipe it out clean afterwards? I'm sure the cups and cones are a bit pitted and will never be perfect, but I'm betting new balls and grease will get them running pretty smoothly again. The rubber is really in poor shape and one of the reflectors is missing, but I like the idea of keeping the original "made in England" pedals on the bike.

It's funny that pedals are made to be fully serviceable, but when you can buy a new set of MKS rubber block pedals for $30 it makes absolutely no financial sense to overhaul them, unless you are doing it as a hobby for fun.

Velocivixen 04-23-15 12:07 PM

@Chesterton - I use a very small straight black screwdriver to carefully chip off the old grease. I happen to have a set of screwdrivers for small electronics stuff, so can get very small if I need.

noglider 04-23-15 12:09 PM

A scratch awl can be helpful in scraping off caked on grease.

ascherer 04-23-15 02:56 PM


Originally Posted by michaelz28 (Post 17739755)
i have a 74 myself also .. a 28 mile untouched ( good cleaning ) ..http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/h...psqdggvdw0.jpg

Great Root Beer finish, are those tires as dry as they look? Similar situation as my wife's '74. It was ridden total of 3 times and hung up. I have a shot of the underside of the fenders, completely clean...


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