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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

DQRider 03-31-16 06:51 PM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 18653608)
I have built several wheels with SRF3 hubs, and use one in one of my own bikes. They are a quality hub, and the design changes have eliminated the false neutral of the older design. The SRF3 has the same internals as the AW, the difference is the alloy shell.
The steel shel AW is still produced if you prefer to go that way.
I see some vendors calling it an S-30, but that nomenclature is not found on Sturmey Archer's site, nor on the listings of the distributors I buy from.

Ah, of course. I should have just asked you to begin with. It's nice to hear they finally got rid of the false neutral. That's probably the way I want to go. The bike I am planning to build will be a one-off, so I don't have any preference for the original English hubs, as long as the bike is still eligible for Pepin and other events. Okay, so SRF3 is the correct nomenclature. Is that sold as a kit, with shifter, cable, and hardware? (We can continue this discussion by email or PM if you want...)

Thanks!

Dan Burkhart 03-31-16 10:44 PM


Originally Posted by DQRider (Post 18653649)
Ah, of course. I should have just asked you to begin with. It's nice to hear they finally got rid of the false neutral. That's probably the way I want to go. The bike I am planning to build will be a one-off, so I don't have any preference for the original English hubs, as long as the bike is still eligible for Pepin and other events. Okay, so SRF3 is the correct nomenclature. Is that sold as a kit, with shifter, cable, and hardware? (We can continue this discussion by email or PM if you want...)

Thanks!

It is normally sold with a cog, shifter, cables and mounting hardware. That's the way I get them from the distributor. They will normally ship with a twist shifter unless you request another option. There will be an upcharge for another style shifter.

Fidbloke 04-01-16 10:15 AM


Originally Posted by Velocivixen (Post 18652479)
@rhm - Thanks. No, I'm not willing to burn out a light just to find out. It's not a big deal. I have two G6 hubs that I've overhauled which are 32 hole. Seems like the smaller wheels used 28h.

These people sell voltage regulators for use with hub dynamos:
REGULATORS FOR DYNAMO GENERATORS

They sell one specifically for use with the GH6 and LED lights..

Velocivixen 04-01-16 10:17 AM

@Fidbloke - yes, thanks. I have looked over that site and emailed them in the past. Great resource.

Dan Burkhart 04-01-16 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 18653608)
I have built several wheels with SRF3 hubs, and use one in one of my own bikes. They are a quality hub, and the design changes have eliminated the false neutral of the older design. The SRF3 has the same internals as the AW, the difference is the alloy shell.
The steel shel AW is still produced if you prefer to go that way.
I see some vendors calling it an S-30, but that nomenclature is not found on Sturmey Archer's site, nor on the listings of the distributors I buy from.

I must correct myself on this statement. Don't know how I missed this in the past, probably because I have always focused on the specific model, but looking at the top of the left column here, http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/...EED%20HUBS.pdf it looks like they list the entire class of 3 speeds as S30. Stiil you want to know the specific model within that category when ordering.

Fidbloke 04-01-16 10:31 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 18653608)
I have built several wheels with SRF3 hubs, and use one in one of my own bikes. They are a quality hub, and the design changes have eliminated the false neutral of the older design. The SRF3 has the same internals as the AW, the difference is the alloy shell.
The steel shel AW is still produced if you prefer to go that way.
I see some vendors calling it an S-30, but that nomenclature is not found on Sturmey Archer's site, nor on the listings of the distributors I buy from.

The 'S30' label is used in the Sturmey Archer catalogue as a group name for a particular family of hubs. They lump their modern hubs together into 'families' in the catalogue.
It goes like this:
C30 - Rotary 3-Speed alloy hubs.
These come with different braking systems, but they are all alloy hubs with the newer rotary selector system.
S30 & S3S - Classic 3-Speed hubs.
The S30 hubs have alloy shells. They come with a range of braking systems, and they use the older indicator chain selector method.
The S3S hubs all have steel shells. There are two different braking variants plus the AW, which is much the same as the originals..

Fidbloke 04-01-16 10:39 AM


Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart (Post 18655259)
I must correct myself on this statement. Don't know how I missed this in the past, probably because I have always focused on the specific model, but looking at the top of the left column here, http://www.sturmey-archer.com/files/...EED%20HUBS.pdf it looks like they list the entire class of 3 speeds as S30. Stiil you want to know the specific model within that category when ordering.

I answered your post and just realised that you'd already done it. Ooops!
I have to type all my text into Notepad and paste it into the BF text box, so I hadn't noticed that you'd updated yourself.
I can't type directly onto BF, as there's some sort of 'Transatlantic Delay' which means that I'll type several lines and my computer gives up after a few words..

Dan Burkhart 04-01-16 10:46 AM


Originally Posted by Fidbloke (Post 18655300)
I answered your post and just realised that you'd already done it. Ooops!
I have to type all my text into Notepad and paste it into the BF text box, so I hadn't noticed that you'd updated yourself.
I can't type directly onto BF, as there's some sort of 'Transatlantic Delay' which means that I'll type several lines and my computer gives up after a few words..

No worries. Like I said, with all the time I spend dealing with these things, I have no idea how I missed it.

Lenton58 04-01-16 11:59 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18651023)
>>>SNIP>>>Another question, I bought a step through Dunalt some years back which I am working on, another project, to give to my still too young niece. I am afraid of the frame. Those double down tube bikes look scary to me as if at any moment they might fold up? How strong are these (girl) bikes?

This design is not a 'girl's bike"in the same way a true mixte isn't. It is an urban design to accommodate skirts for sure, but also for dismounting effortlessly in densely controlled intersections, shopping and blah blah. Jillions of Asians of both genders get around on these sort of designs every day. Every house here in Japan has a number of them parked outside; they are used for shopping, banking, getting a haircut, going to school, getting to work and so on. They are a common appliance!

One concern did hit hard here in Japan a few years ago. Some parents were riding with a child in a seat on the rear, another on a seat mounted in front and still another on the parent's back or a front-pouch. This was a common sight. Then the government became concerned over head injuries among children. At the same time it was noticed that the average "mama-chari" was not stable enough with this sort of load. Thus manufacturers were requested to make a much stiffer design. It employed a smaller front wheel, larger diameter tubing with reinforced mountings for seats and stands. Moreover the passenger seats provided mandatory side-impact protection. Carrying three children was prohibited, but this is neither strictly obeyed nor enforced AFAIK. Children were also required to wear helmets, but of course infants cannot do this because of their early stage of development. And so they remain strapped in behind mama.

These bikes really are safer, stiffer and more secure. But the sticker shock really punished low income families, and thus the government asked the manufactures to lower the cost. In addition, some local governments provided grants for parents to be able to buy them and thereby comply with the new regulations.

I remember telling my son at one point that he was on his last ride in the rear seat of his mother's bike. I had/have an extra long seat post on my wife's bike. I still use it for shopping, but years ago I transported my boy around to soccer practices and so on until he got to a certain size. Then our combined weight made the frame unstable.

Don't forget, these bikes I am talking about are made from the cheapest, mild steel tubing. But, they are absolutely stable even with a pile of groceries in the cargo basket. They have a band brake at the rear that stops the machine like gang-busters. I have never, never heard of one coming unstuck at a braze-seam or lug. But there is a limit to what load these cheap bikes will support without becoming a noodle. I'm 74 Kg and riding my wife's 20 year old "mama-chari" with a load of groceries with the long seat post jacked right up is no problem.

With the usual inspection all of us vintage fans do, your niece should be absolutely safe with a quality machine made in this design. Really ... no worry!

Lenton58 04-01-16 12:11 PM


Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 18643364)
A friend of mine and I were on the Lake Pepin 3-speed tour, ascending the Bay City Hill which is 2 1/2 miles long. We got passed by a peloton of carbon bike. Kelly was/is a monster on wheels- she was pretty much 'screw this', snapped it into 2nd, stood up on the pedals to get her momentum up and then passed the entire peloton on her 1958 Phillips, which easily weighs 40 pounds. She overheard one of the riders say 'looks like we've been passed'. Yes- you've been passed when the rider is on a plain steel 50 year old 3-speed... with baskets.

As has been proven many times, its more about the rider and not so much the bike.

I just gotta tell you that this gave me the best laugh I've had all week! I only wish I'd been there to see it!:lol::D:thumb:

arex 04-02-16 03:40 PM

Dumb question...which side does the long end of the Raleigh spindle go...drive side or non-drive side?

Fenway 04-02-16 04:04 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18658339)
Dumb question...which side does the long end of the Raleigh spindle go...drive side or non-drive side?

Long end is on the drive side to pick up the extra thickness from the chain wheel.

Upgraded 'Winston' with more modern and ergonomic components now that he is my primary commuter bike. Gold lined the lugs and chaincase as well. Still a bit of a work in progress while I find a suitable water bottle holder for the clips and tidy up the aesthetics of the dynamo wiring.
http://i.imgur.com/0HMatiR.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l3wUGLT.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ZzbamF2.jpg

arex 04-02-16 05:36 PM

That's what makes sense, but I had something bugging me that I'd ran into the situation before and had problems.

Loose Chain 04-02-16 06:47 PM

The axle, front axle, of a Raleigh three speed is what thread? I need to chase the threads so I can service the front axle and bearings on my newly CR18 laced wheels. It looks to be very close to a M8X1.0 pitch?

arex 04-02-16 07:47 PM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18658689)
The axle, front axle, of a Raleigh three speed is what thread? I need to chase the threads so I can service the front axle and bearings on my newly CR18 laced wheels. It looks to be very close to a M8X1.0 pitch?

It's almost certainly 26tpi, unless the wheel got swapped out at some point.

Loose Chain 04-02-16 11:14 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18658819)
It's almost certainly 26tpi, unless the wheel got swapped out at some point.

No the hub is original. The new CR18 rim is not of course :). Both Sun CR18 weigh about the same as a single original steel rim. Very nice these Sun CR18s

? 26 tpi what ?

I need to purchase a die of the correct size.

A curiosity but apparently the brakes are self adjusting on these Raleighs?

J

BigChief 04-03-16 05:04 AM

Welcome to the wacky world of Witworth and proprietary Raleigh threads and hex sizes. All kinds of quirks on these bikes to get used to. Don't forget...when putting the front wheel on, adjustable cone goes on the left.

Loose Chain 04-03-16 08:40 AM


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18659337)
Welcome to the wacky world of Witworth and proprietary Raleigh threads and hex sizes. All kinds of quirks on these bikes to get used to. Don't forget...when putting the front wheel on, adjustable cone goes on the left.

Well, yes it is quite wonky.

I assume this means there are no dies to be had for the love of English three speed front axles?

I think the 8mm would clean it enough that I could run the cones off enough to grease the bearings, which is the task I am wanting to accomplish. Or?

J

markk900 04-03-16 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18659671)
I think the 8mm would clean it enough that I could run the cones off enough to grease the bearings, which is the task I am wanting to accomplish. Or?
J

I think a cleaning with a thread file will do it - how bad are the threads? If you are just finding resistance it may simply be some corrosion and you might be able to use the locknut as a thread chaser.

arex 04-03-16 09:23 AM


Originally Posted by markk900 (Post 18659708)
I think a cleaning with a thread file will do it - how bad are the threads? If you are just finding resistance it may simply be some corrosion and you might be able to use the locknut as a thread chaser.

+1.

Loose Chain 04-03-16 09:35 AM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18659775)
+1.

Lock nut you say ;)? I see no stinking lock nut! Yes, the adjustable side was on the left and shall go back to the left.

So, for all the Raleighs I see with the original red R axle nuts long gone, like what did they replace the proper nuts with? Mine, fortunately is complete with the original hardware and fasteners.

And I thought Italian bikes were a PITA. These things are from a different planet than earth!

arex 04-03-16 09:42 AM

Running into an issue with remounting the drive-side crank. When the cotter is pushed in, it aligns in such a way that the base of the crank is rubbing pretty firmly on the cup. Judging by the condition of the backside of the crank (rough, chewed up), this was probably an issue from the factory. I have a reproduction crank that I've tried, and it fits fine, so I think the issue is with the crank itself...the cotter hole in the crank is further out than on the repro crank.

I've readjusted the BB repeatedly, trying to see if that affects anything (it doesn't). I'd really prefer not to use the repro crank (made in India, off of eBay), because it's not made nearly as well as the original, and the cranks themselves are about 1/2" longer, a potential issue on a Twenty.

This situation appears to be a manufacturing problem from the factory, but I have a hard time believing an issue this drastic got past QC, or past the bike shop that sold it. So, I have to assume I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what it can be. The spindle is installed correctly, long end on the drive-side. I've tried three different sets of cotter pins with the same result. I have NOT tried installing the NDS crank yet.

Is there a fix for this, aside from replacing the crank? What am I doing wrong?

arex 04-03-16 09:45 AM


Originally Posted by Loose Chain (Post 18659811)
Lock nut you say ;)? I see no stinking lock nut! Yes, the adjustable side was on the left and shall go back to the left.

So, for all the Raleighs I see with the original red R axle nuts long gone, like what did they replace the proper nuts with? Mine, fortunately is complete with the original hardware and fasteners.

And I thought Italian bikes were a PITA. These things are from a different planet than earth!

The Raleighs are weird, but they're consistently weird. Once you resolved to working with them, and equip yourself accordingly, they're fine.

I think the lock nut @markk900 refers to might be the cone lock nut, or even the cone itself.

BigChief 04-03-16 10:18 AM

I've rarely seen messed up threads on Raleigh axles. The axles and cones are case hardened and the nuts are rather soft, so usually, any thread damage is inside the nut. These may be Witworth threads and tap and die sets are available, but replacement nuts are easy to find.

Loose Chain 04-03-16 04:20 PM


Originally Posted by arex (Post 18659837)
The Raleighs are weird, but they're consistently weird. Once you resolved to working with them, and equip yourself accordingly, they're fine.

I think the lock nut @markk900 refers to might be the cone lock nut, or even the cone itself.

There are no lock nuts as such. But no worries. I cleaned the threads with a small needle file and it all came aprt. Ten little balls per side. Cleaned the old gunk out and lubricated with some Phil Woods bearing grease. All back together now.

I think the thread is 5/16X26tpi British Standard. Not absolutely sure but I ordered a die in that size for my next encounter.


Originally Posted by BigChief (Post 18659910)
I've rarely seen messed up threads on Raleigh axles. The axles and cones are case hardened and the nuts are rather soft, so usually, any thread damage is inside the nut. These may be Witworth threads and tap and die sets are available, but replacement nuts are easy to find.

The threads adjacent to the cones were damaged from the dropouts riding on them.

So, now with both new CR18 aluminum wheels laced on with new stainless spokes and new light weight aluminum platform pedals the little Raleigh Sports moves along most sportingly. A few adjustments yet but it seems the little critter will live for another few decades as my coffee and latte ride. Just need to find that SA light bracket but if not I will make one. Just does not look all English Racer without a proper lamp.


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