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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=623699)

clubman 04-04-11 02:03 PM


Originally Posted by HSean (Post 12426310)

That's some nice bike! What year? Raleigh wingnuts and bakelite to boot. But if you don't flip those bars back I'm going to have to buy them off you...cheap!

Fenway 04-05-11 09:27 AM

So I managed to get a (1958? can't read the hub because it's so filthy, but there is an oil port cap) Raleigh Colt in nearly pristine, albeit filthy beyond belief, condition (well the hand grips have mostly disintegrated) with everything original down to the Wood's tubes & Dunlop tires. Aside from an industrial strength cleaning, degreasing (good Lord everything is covered in it...EVERYTHING! Which has made all the dirt, dust, and probably (shudder) rat droppings stick to it), polishing (simichrome fine for this era's plating?), replacing tires/tubes/brake pads, what do you all recommend I service or replace?

I was thinking the brake cables/housing need to be replaced, metallic braid to keep it classy, but after reading about the need for using clamp on replacement cable ends and the special issues about Raleigh cable, I'm not so sure about that now.

Also does anyone have a recommendation for a good cleaners for this type of project. I think my usual standby of Mother's automotive cleaner & polish might not be up to the task alone.

This project is important to me because it's giving the same type of bike back to an elderly family member that they once had. So getting it restored right, safe, and sound is a high priority.

Amesja 04-05-11 11:17 AM

Keep the housings and even the original cables if you can get them moving. Are the cables double-ended on the colt of that era? If so you will have to cut the cables to save the housings and then use cable knarps to make the calipers work with modern single-sided cables. Usually the housings can be saved and they look period correct. Modern housings just don't look right to me on the old Raleighs.

Grease comes right off with degreaser or even simple dish soap. Hopefully it is just old caked-on grease and grunge and not much rust. If the paint is sound it'll clean right up -maybe polish with Scratch-X

I'd pull apart the headset, BB, and the front axle at least and put new bearings in and repack with grease. Most of the bikes of that age that I've torn apart have really pitted races and need to be replaced as well. Hopefully the top most head races are OK as the threading is different and getting a replacement for that is really hard. The bottom can be replaced easily with parts from a modern headset. That's the one that goes bad most of the time anyhow. Many people say the rear hub only needs oil and is good to go most of the time. I'd pull that apart too and regrease the bearings and clean out out the innards of oily goopy mess which will make it run smoother and quieter and shift better.

noglider 04-05-11 11:55 AM

Some bikes have been ridden fewer miles than others, even very old bikes. Sometimes you get lucky and the bearing races are in good shape. My 1961 Rudge had been maintained, so it's in great shape. The cables and housings are original.

Start getting the cables moving by spraying WD40 into both ends of the housings. Move the cable back and forth, and repeat the WD40. Then add oil, move the cable, add oil, move the cable, repeatedly. If the housings are not bent, the cables will work, and you can't get cables of this quality any more.

Oil the rear hub and adjust it. It probably doesn't need overhauling. If it does, the oil inside has probably turned to shellac, and you'll have to do a lot of scraping. The last time I did this, I used a scratch awl, along with some solvent. The scratching did more work than the solvent did. It took a while. These hubs have a fair number of small parts, but if you keep a clean bench and keep track of everything, it comes apart and goes back together easily. I think there are exploded views or photos available, along with procedures on the web. There are also youtube videos of this procedure. The one I've seen is done in England, not surprisingly, and it's extremely clear and complete. You will need a punch, hammer, bench vise, and a cone wrench of the right size. The right size cone wrenches may be hard to find, so you may have to make one out of a sacrificial cone wrench.

To be honest, I usually don't take apart the headset or bottom bracket. If they feel good, I figure they are. I often drop oil in the crevices to make sure there's something in there.

Sixty Fiver 04-05-11 02:28 PM

Let me slip this one in for some variety... my friend's Batavus that was a 3 speed until yesterday that is now rocking a new SA 5 speed IGH out back to give it a little more range and climbing power and if that fails it has an electric motor in the front wheel.

My friend lives in the valley so has to be able to bring this bike up about 900 feet on very steep roads with a child trailer behind.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...solddutch1.JPG

That new SA five speed is a really nice hub... shifting is wonderful and range is very good with a 24 tooth cog.

w1gfh 04-05-11 03:15 PM


Originally Posted by JohnDThompson (Post 12456698)
I just had an old PresSteel rack powercoated and it turned out well

Really like the PresSteels but can't abide the heavy auction prices for one. I suspect I'm not alone. If someone like Velo Orange should happen to make a replica I think they'd be very popular.

jrecoi 04-05-11 03:17 PM

Sixty Fiver: Are those 26" mountain bike wheels on the Batavus? What happened to the chaincase?

w1gfh 04-05-11 08:00 PM

That Batavus looks bulletproof. Meanwhile, it's funny to think these guys probably made my bike.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3111/...45fea231fd.jpg
Raleigh Factory, Radford, Nottingham, 1966

Velognome 04-05-11 08:04 PM

sixtyfiver, the Batavus is great. Does your friend use the Hub motor to augment peddaling all the time?

noglider 04-05-11 08:09 PM

That Batavus rocks, especially as you equipped it. And 900 feet, wow. The hill I live on is like 200 or 300 feet.

Sixty Fiver 04-05-11 10:11 PM


Originally Posted by jrecoi (Post 12463542)
Sixty Fiver: Are those 26" mountain bike wheels on the Batavus? What happened to the chaincase?

The front wheel is a 635 / 28 inch and the rear is a 700:35.

With the 5 speed SA you can cruise along pretty nicely in 4th while 5th is steep enough and the bike is heavy enough (about 80 pounds) that you'd want a tailwind or a hill... the motor is 36v and 1 hp and with it engaged you can spin out in 5th and drop people in spandex. :)

Edmonton is built along an old river and valley floor is 800-900 feet below the city proper and all the routes coming up are very short and steep with some grades hitting 22% and coming up from my friends place you have to ride a km on a grade that exceeds 12 % and probably is closer to 15% in places.

It would he hard to ride the Batavus up this hill on it's own with no power assist and with a trailer and a two year old it would be a challenge for anyone on any bike... this is what the power assist is for and the AWD it offers is great for plowing through deep snow.

Am thinking that I'd like a power assist like this for my extrabike... :)

Sixty Fiver 04-05-11 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 12464842)
sixtyfiver, the Batavus is great. Does your friend use the Hub motor to augment peddaling all the time?

The run time on the assist is probably no more than an hour if full power was used and is just used for certain terrain... my friend and his wife (who also uses the bike alot) are very strong cyclists and cycle year round.

The Batavus is a winter bike... they have to two hand built rando bikes for summer and two custom tandems for touring and racing and we are in the process of turning their S&S coupled expedition tandem into a triplet so the little guy will be able to ride with his mom and dad.

My friend rides an 8 speed equipped hybrid in the winter when the Batavus isn't needed and since that 8 speed has been problematic will be building the Batavus' old Sachs 3 speed into a 700c wheel for that as it is a very decent hub gear with a coaster brake.

Sixty Fiver 04-05-11 10:22 PM

I was going to stop by and share a picture I took today which was the first ride of the season for my girls... I was never allowed to ride my bike this early in the year when I was their age.

English 3 speeds rule.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...girlsride1.JPG

And they can haul twice their weight in groceries...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/2011basil1.JPG

HSean 04-06-11 12:22 AM

The reason why the bars arn't Flipped Clubman is because if I flip them the bike isn't very comfy to ride due to the frame size, it's small, so with them the wrong way it looks neat and is comfy to ride, apparently it's a 1939, I think it's abit of a mongrel, I wouldn't mind seeing a picture of one that was all stock so I could see whats wrong, I think the shifter is anyway, the cable isn't as old as the break cables.

ANd I finally found another 3 speed to love and add to my collection! I got a sports that some i'm gonna say moron pillaged parts off of for some reason then sold it to my friend, the bike, well whats left, it's missing bars, leavers, and all 3 speed stuff and front wheel, other then that the bike is like new hardly even a scratch. I got a dyno hub, it's being laced along with a 3 speed sturmey archer hub into two black 700c rims. figured i'd expand my 3 speed life to 700c Sometimes a dyno hub may look dead and be missing parts but after abit of tender care it can be brought back to life!

Schwinnsta 04-07-11 03:54 PM

Why did this bike bring shuch a high price http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT?

eBay prices seem so inconsistant.

noglider 04-07-11 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12474075)
Why did this bike bring shuch a high price http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT?

eBay prices seem so inconsistant.

One can never say, but it is a very good specimen. I would expect that bike to fetch $300 or so. But timing is everything. All the seller needed was one buyer who was sentimental about the bike who hasn't shopped for long and doesn't have the patience of a spider. Better, of course, if there are two or three such people.

And there are so many factors in timing, such as holidays, time of day at end of auction, weather, and so on.

Schwinnsta 04-07-11 04:45 PM

The Brooks mattress style seems wrong. One would expect a B72 with a saddlebag rather than the Pletchor rack. The line of the front fender seemed slightly bent. Otherwise it is clean.

w1gfh 04-07-11 04:47 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12474075)
Why did this bike bring shuch a high price http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...K%3AMEWAX%3AIT?

eBay prices seem so inconsistant.

Maybe because men's frames are more often beat, scratched and missing parts, and this one was in very nice shape, it got a higher price? But those black Dare handgrips, wow; as clearly seen in some of the photos, they're split and rotting off the bars!

Amesja 04-07-11 04:53 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12474259)
The Brooks mattress style seems wrong. One would expect a B72 with a saddlebag rather than the Pletchor rack. The line of the front fender seemed slightly bent. Otherwise it is clean.

The cotters are put together wrong -both from the same side. Notice the cranks are not 180-degrees apart. I wonder what else is done wrong on that bike?

rhm 04-07-11 04:58 PM

$520 plus $100 shipping is crazy for a Raleigh Sports. With a little patience you can find five or ten of them for that price, and one of them will be in as nice shape as this. I suspect there's been a mistake, and we'll see it relisted by the same seller.

Velognome 04-07-11 05:15 PM

Wow! I could see maybe a 23" Sports turning that kinda money but there was absolutley nothing special about that one.

Eileen 04-07-11 05:15 PM

Mine:

http://gallery.me.com/ilynne/100080/IMG_0475/web.jpg

I really love this bicycle. The Peugeot may go to a new home, but this one is a keeper.

w1gfh 04-07-11 05:16 PM

What are those square white areas on the front forks? I saw similar reflective(?) areas on the forks of a 1965 Sports/Colt frame I had.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5307/...9288a66c40.jpg
'65 Sports "Colt" type frame by w1gfh, on Flickr

Amesja 04-07-11 06:24 PM

2 Attachment(s)
I finished another project so I need to find another one.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=196844http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=196845

alr 04-07-11 08:20 PM

I think it is a square of very old and hardened reflective tape. My 1972 DL-1 is festooned with these tapes on the forks and chain stays. I think it is some effort to make it street legal since there are no front or wheel reflectors. That is just a hunch though. I am in the process of scraping mine off.

Schwinnsta 04-07-11 08:21 PM

More wrong on further examination of the eBay Sports. The rims appear not to be westwood and wrong tires. I think the front fender is bowed because of dented right fender stay. They also did not reuse the R nuts on the cotters when they misaligned the pedals.

Judging from the bids, there were a few who were willing to pay top dollar for the bike.

Amesja 04-07-11 08:37 PM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12475029)
They also did not reuse the R nuts on the cotters when they misaligned the pedals.

The R-nuts don't fit most all the cotters you can buy today except for some custom-milled ones.

wahoonc 04-08-11 03:50 AM


Originally Posted by Schwinnsta (Post 12474259)
The Brooks mattress style seems wrong. One would expect a B72 with a saddlebag rather than the Pletchor rack. The line of the front fender seemed slightly bent. Otherwise it is clean.

That is actually correct for that bike. If you notice is has Endrick pattern rims and no pump pegs. That makes it the Sports Standard which was a lower end model of the Sports, and it was most likely made in Malaysia, you can just see the little yellow sticker on the front of the seat tube just above the BB. It will have been made around 1971-72.

I have one of these, but not in nearly as nice a condition.

Aaron :)

Amesja 04-08-11 05:36 AM


Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 12476046)
That is actually correct for that bike. If you notice is has Endrick pattern rims and no pump pegs. That makes it the Sports Standard which was a lower end model of the Sports, and it was most likely made in Malaysia, you can just see the little yellow sticker on the front of the seat tube just above the BB. It will have been made around 1971-72.

I have one of these, but not in nearly as nice a condition.

Aaron :)

The early 80's "Sport" (no S, really -that's what the decal says) I just did, and posted a pic of above, has a mattress saddle that isn't quite a Brooks. Nowhere on it does it say Brooks so I imagine that the saddle, like everything else on the bike is a licensed copy built entirely in Asia. Even the hub is a Shimano that plainly says "Made in Japan," and the rims are not Raleigh-patter although the BB and headset are Raleigh-type-ish. The cranks are cottered but the spindle is few thousandths larger in diameter and the BB shell is normal width but still 26tpi.

Weird bike.

JohnDThompson 04-08-11 10:19 AM


Originally Posted by Amesja (Post 12475107)
The R-nuts don't fit most all the cotters you can buy today except for some custom-milled ones.

The "R" mark is actually a little disc press-fitted into the open end of the nut. You could conceivably pop them out of the Whitworth thread nut and press them into a more standard nut to use them with new production cotters. Most new cotters have threads that project beyond the end of the nut, so you'd likely need to trim the threaded section first.


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